legal bods advice pls! playground worry

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plumpie

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Our local council is proposing to build a children's playground on a piece of land that is directly next to a popular 'permissive horse track' on a village common.

The playground won't be fenced, as it's illegal to fence Common land. The permissive horse track will not be diverted, and riders themselves won't be able to avoid passing close to the playground, as there is an thick hedge the other side of the path. This is a circular route, so there would be no option for riders to divert to another path if they wanted to avoid the playground. There are very few off road places to ride, and this is a popular riding route.

I am worried that many riders would struggle to get their horses past a busy playground: children screaming, jumping, running, swinging climbing, sliding, etc!

I have raised my concern with the council, who seem disinterested.

I'm wondering... If theoretically, a horse was sent into a panic directly because of trying to pass a busy playground, and threw it's rider, injured itself or injured another member of the public, could the council be held liable for the accident? The council invites horses to use its permissive horse track, and the same council has decided to erect an unfenced playground right next to it, without any sort of risk assessment to assess the potential impact/risks associated with siting the two together.
 
Sorry but this sounds ridiculous to me... The horses will have to get used to it, it's hardly a big ask.

Of course the council shouldn't be liable.
 
plumpie said:
....The council invites horses to use its permissive horse track, and the same council has decided to erect an unfenced playground right next to it, without any sort of risk assessment to assess the potential impact/risks associated with siting the two together.
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It's highly unlikely that the council haven't carried out a risk assessment - they do one for pretty much everything. If you think they haven't or believe they haven't carried one out appropriately (i.e. haven't taken all factors into account), then that is a point worth holding them to account over. However, if they come to the decision that there is too much risk, they are probably more likely to remove riding permission than remove the intended playground.
 
If you kick up a fuss about this, it will definitely be the horse riders who lose out, not the children. The horses will have to get used to the playground, I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think.
 
The horses would get used to it, I ride past a couple and they don't seem to worry about it as much as I would have thought. But I would have a concern from another point of view. If it is near enough I would worry about children wanting to get close and running up to and in front of the horses. I have seen a child run up to a horse and try and hug it round the hock - the only bit it could reach. In a playground, the parents may be distant enough not to be able to stop it.
 
criso said:
The horses would get used to it, I ride past a couple and they don't seem to worry about it as much as I would have thought. But I would have a concern from another point of view. If it is near enough I would worry about children wanting to get close and running up to and in front of the horses. I have seen a child run up to a horse and try and hug it round the hock - the only bit it could reach. In a playground, the parents may be distant enough not to be able to stop it.
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This is what would worry me more than the noise - the fact that children are drawn to horses like magnets and would come running over. However also agree with the post that says the horse riders are the ones who could lose out if you make a fuss
 
plumpie said:
I am worried that many riders would struggle to get their horses past a busy playground: children screaming, jumping, running, swinging climbing, sliding, etc!

I have raised my concern with the council, who seem disinterested.

.
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I dare say that if you have raised this as your major concern then they will not be interested. If you were to propose a fence, even a small single wooden rail to separate the two areas, to discourage kids from running in front of your horse, then you may be more successful.

Personally I would wait and see, and train the horse to be mannerly if he is a problem. You may spend much of your summer chillaxing with him at the playground!
 
The horses will just have to deal with it, what happens if they are ridden past a garden with kids playing? there are lots of bridles paths/tracks round my way (ish) that are round commons/nature parks and golf courses with flying balls and umbrellas-if a horse really can't cope with a group of kids playing and running about the owner needs to work on it or stop riding it in public places.
 
muckypony said:
Sorry but this sounds ridiculous to me... The horses will have to get used to it, it's hardly a big ask.

Of course the council shouldn't be liable.
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Agree with this. We have to ride past a kiddies park with one of those annoying zip wire thingies. The first few times we rode past the horses jumped but they got used to it very quickly and take zero notice of it now.
 
The thing I would be more concerned about would be kids running up to the horses.

I would expect my horses to ride past a playground with no issues.
 
I suggest you lobby the council to erect a fence around the play area (yes, it can be done on council land to define a boundary of something in the middle of the common) check your parish councillor and lobby them to make your objections heard and put it in writing to the council yourself when it gets on the planning list; also canvas other riders to write in too, ask your local BHS access officer to become involved as well as your council ROW officer. Like everyone else, they have to do huge risk assessments that are usually well over the top and if you prove how popular the ride is they will have to take that into consideration.

But, like everyone else, get your horses used to children screaming (riding past schools at playtime is good) and make sure your insurance is sound, but most of all, continue using the ride especially when the playground is being constructed.

PS - Is it beyond you to trot on smartly past the playground if you see a child coming near so it can't get near your horses?
 
If you're concerned about your horse spooking at some kids on a playground, should you really be taking it into any public space? If it's that likely to spook at something that shouldn't be an issue, frankly it sounds dangerous!
 
The horses will get used to it. There's one right beside one of our relatively regular routes and the horses goggled at it the first couple of times, now they don't pay any attention. Like the others, my main concern would be children running in front of the horses so I would see if the Council would be willing to consider a small fence.
 
We have to go past an unfenced playground on our hacking route. In fact we have to dismount to get through a gate, then re-mount right next to the playground. Yes, the horses can get a bit wound up if there's a lot going on (footballs / remote control cars / squeaky swings!), but isn't that part and parcel of hacking? I'll happily yell at the children and ask them to stop for a minute so that I can get back on board.
 
All I will comment to OP is if the horse track is permissive that is easily removed if the council thinks theres a safety issue so my guess would be the playground will stay.
The OP seems to have disappeared so maybe another wind up.
 
I'd be more worried about losing the permissive track because of complaints from the mummies about poo or something like that.
 
we have common land near me, which has a fenced off park and fenced off skate ramps. Horse riders still use it but we are only allowed to walk through there now! back in the day it was the main place to go for a gallop, but its been taken over by people with kids and dogs, so its useless for us now!! there's literally no other place in the village for a gallop/canter!
 
madlady said:
The thing I would be more concerned about would be kids running up to the horses.

I would expect my horses to ride past a playground with no issues.
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This! I would expect a horse to be able to get used to the noise. I would be concerned about kids running up to the horses however.
 
DD265 said:
I've found that playgrounds usually contain convenient mounting blocks!
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That has to be a bonus for me, I am crap at mounting from ditches/gates etc! I once held up like 4 green laners because of my inability to re-mount my mount from a gate! It's funny now but at the time I would've killed for a see-saw or something!

Kezzabell2 said:
we have common land near me, which has a fenced off park and fenced off skate ramps. Horse riders still use it but we are only allowed to walk through there now! back in the day it was the main place to go for a gallop, but its been taken over by people with kids and dogs, so its useless for us now!! there's literally no other place in the village for a gallop/canter!
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This has happened to friends who keep their horses near the many new developments in my town. Must be really annoying!!
 
Most playgrounds come with fencing these days to create a dog poo free zone for kids to play. I expect yours will. We pass one, and by the time the kids have spotted the horses we have gone past, so they don't have time to get out of the gate
 
we hack past a playing field, regularly used for noisy football games adults and kids alike. On better days its used for kites, dog walking, picnics etc. Horses will get used to the noise. Like others have said, id be more concerned that a child would run in front of behind the horse.
 
Goldenstar said:
I have no idea, in fact apart from serious dressagey types I had met I no idea they where until I discovered HHO.
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Erm... Excuse me - I'm a 'seriously dressagey type' as you put it and I can assure you that I am in no way precious and that my Advanced Medium grade horse has no issues whatsoever with walking past the BMX track / football pitch on one of our hacks.

Less generalisation please :)
 
My horse has serious hysterics the first time he had to go past a playground on the green. All the horses did. He got used to it!
 
My old horse (who was bred to be a "serious dressage type", but frankly had no chance with me of getting beyond the dizzy heights of novice) had done zero hacking before I got him, and was enormously spooky. After a few years (over which we will draw a tactful veil, if that's okay), he became bomb proof to all manner of things, including children's playgrounds, and school playgrounds where the noise was deafening but you couldn't see what was making it, as there was a huge hedge in the way.

So if he can get used to it with a numpty like me on top then I'm sure yours will be fine.

Like others, I would be pretty confident the council would always prioritise the playground over a permissive horse track, and would be expecting complaints about horse droppings.

A small fence to reduce the chance of unsupervised children cuddling horses'legs would seem like a sensible precaution, but I would be disinclined to make too much of a fuss about it because it will be the riders who lose out!
 
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