legal bods advice pls! playground worry

The council in my area built a skateboard pk just off a byway and all my crew are getting used to the noise and seeing the odd human flying through the air. By the end of the summer it will be part of the scenery!
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughts. Very interesting! I'm quite surprised by the general consensus on the forum, considering most of the riders here are all very concerned. But it is interesting and useful to read your thoughts, from an independent and fresh perspective.

Although horses have used the common for hundreds of years, a permissive track was put in place in the early 1950s, so it would be unlikely that it would be removed.
The special protective status of this particular common means that no fencing can be erected. We have cows that graze on it, next to a road without physical fencing. The boundary of their fence is a wire underground, and the cows wear electronic collars, which buzz them if they go too close to their boundary. So, there is no possibility that the playground will ever be fenced.

To the lovely person who accused me of posting 'a wind up' because I've 'disappeared' I'm sorry that ive not been online since yesterday evening! i do the horses early am, work all day, straight to the yard afterwards and don't get the chance to go online until this sort of time in the evenings...
 
As a teenager I stabled my horse in Leeds and our main ride went right alongside a playground separated only by a low wall with several gaps in it. I escorted rides in return for lessons so often had 5-6 horses with paying customers on going past. We never had any trouble with noise etc, but the horses were all "townies" (my mare was un-bothered by a police car with blues and twos, but totally freaked at the sight of a tractor). The only problems I remember were children wanting to pat the ponies, which was a problem for me because mine was a vicious cow with a nasty bite but also a general problem because this came right before the only decent canter so they tended to be a bit reluctant to stand still.
 
plumpie said:
Although horses have used the common for hundreds of years, a permissive track was put in place in the early 1950s, so it would be unlikely that it would be removed.
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As horses had been using it, it would have been better to have got it reclassified as a public bridleway on the basis of this usage. As it's a permissive path, there is no legal protection at all, it's not a right of way and it can be removed at any time.
 
muckypony said:
Sorry but this sounds ridiculous to me... The horses will have to get used to it, it's hardly a big ask.

Of course the council shouldn't be liable.
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Sorry 100% agree with this.
Where I understand your worry if you have a spookier type but they'll get used to it. Plenty of desensitization work ;)
 
I used to ride my horse around Hyde Park by himself and he never worried about anything at all. The problem with todays horses is that they are not exposed to enough things when they are young. Too much emphasis placed on schooling and not enough on getting them used to their surroundings.
 
One of our rides comes out alongside the local playing fields, there is a bit of fence and hedging but not for the full distance. I've lost count of the number of footballs that have gone over my head, landed under the horse etc, it's amazing what they learn to put up with. My TB likes to stop and watch if there's a footy match going on, I think the cheering reminds her of her past :)
 
criso said:
As horses had been using it, it would have been better to have got it reclassified as a public bridleway on the basis of this usage. As it's a permissive path, there is no legal protection at all, it's not a right of way and it can be removed at any time.
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That is the whole point of permissive paths it actually stops them being vulnerable to re classification. Do you think landowners would allow permissive paths if it could be reclassified.
 
popsdosh said:
That is the whole point of permissive paths it actually stops them being vulnerable to re classification. Do you think landowners would allow permissive paths if it could be reclassified.
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Another way of looking at it, is that it's a cynical move that protects the landowner. If a path has been consistently used historically, then it can be reclassified whether the landowner likes it or not. By making it a permissive path, horse riders are happy so don't contest it. As soon as the deadline for registering rights of way is past, they remove the permission and nothing can be done.

I'm not talking about creating a new route where none existed.

The OP says it was used by horse riders and then made a permissive path
 
I think your horse will soon get used to the playground, where I lived before the bridleway used to run (still does) through a public park, alongside two big playgrounds, back of a school and past a football pitch. We rode alonng it nearly evvery day, never thought twice about it.
 
criso said:
Another way of looking at it, is that it's a cynical move that protects the landowner. If a path has been consistently used historically, then it can be reclassified whether the landowner likes it or not. By making it a permissive path, horse riders are happy so don't contest it. As soon as the deadline for registering rights of way is past, they remove the permission and nothing can be done.

I'm not talking about creating a new route where none existed.

The OP says it was used by horse riders and then made a permissive path
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From this wording I obviously came to a different conclusion, dont think it says the track was being used and then made permissive.

'Our local council is proposing to build a children's playground on a piece of land that is directly next to a popular 'permissive horse track' on a village common.'

Permissive paths is a mechanism for trying to create more areas for riding etc. Im afraid talking as a landowner your attitude does not help ,why is it always them and us .

I suppose I could make the point that if the deadline is indeed getting near why go to the bother of making a path permissive when a simple sign and enforcement stopping access is all thats required to break the deadline and then riders lose out completely .
 
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plumpie said:
Although horses have used the common for hundreds of years, a permissive track was put in place in the early 1950s, so it would be unlikely that it would be removed.


...
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That's what I quoted in my post. As I said I'm not talking about new paths, if landowners create them then they should still retain control. However all the permissive paths I know in the area, do not fall into this category. They are in woods that have been used by horse riders for a long time, not farmed and have been removed in some cases.

I also wonder in this case if the track was defined to keep horse riders to one area of the common.

Eta the deadline for registering rights of way is 2026 isn't it. If a landowner blocked up a path, then local horse rides and the BHS might appeal. If it's a permissive path no one will do anything.
 
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If it can be demonstrated by historic research that the route was used by horses prior to the date of it being designated a permissive route then an application can still be made to place it on the definitive map as of a bridleway or even higher status of a restricted bridleway if it can be demonstrated that carriage drivers used it. If it is a true common then possibly there are rights to ride or drive horses over the entire common. You need to check with the County Councils definitive map officer to determine the true status and also the open space society to determine equestrian rights over the common.
Sadly horse riders receive very little support from government and local authorities for the provision of road riding routes when compared to the millions of pounds that SUSTRANS receives to create new cycling routes.
Horse riders need to 'Muscle Up' and do more to get funding for new off road riding routes as economically they generate millions of pounds in to the local economy.
The very least they can do is join the BHS and support the good work that they are doing.
 
Kezzabell2 said:
we have common land near me, which has a fenced off park and fenced off skate ramps. Horse riders still use it but we are only allowed to walk through there now! back in the day it was the main place to go for a gallop, but its been taken over by people with kids and dogs, so its useless for us now!! there's literally no other place in the village for a gallop/canter!
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THe council planted trees all over our common riding area. So if you didn't have access to an arena you couldn't do any schooling any more. A nice community forest for the future though.
 
OWLIE185 said:
If it can be demonstrated by historic research that the route was used by horses prior to the date of it being designated a permissive route then an application can still be made to place it on the definitive map as of a bridleway or even higher status of a restricted bridleway if it can be demonstrated that carriage drivers used it. If it is a true common then possibly there are rights to ride or drive horses over the entire common. You need to check with the County Councils definitive map officer to determine the true status and also the open space society to determine equestrian rights over the common.
Sadly horse riders receive very little support from government and local authorities for the provision of road riding routes when compared to the millions of pounds that SUSTRANS receives to create new cycling routes.
Horse riders need to 'Muscle Up' and do more to get funding for new off road riding routes as economically they generate millions of pounds in to the local economy.
The very least they can do is join the BHS and support the good work that they are doing.
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Don't forget though that only a small percentage of the population can ride a horse, whereas you pick up a second hand bike for £20. For many people a ride out on a SUSTRANS route is a real treat plus they take cyclists off the road. They have a lot of volunteers doing sterling work too.
 
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