Legal people, please deny or confirm my thoughts.

In this situation a dealer would say I will have it back and sell it for you (less livery costs and commission), or that they hadn't got any money to buy it back.

OP, I think you did all you could to find the horse a good home. I think they are trying it on and really need some help and lessons, but have come to a difficulty and think they can just return the horse and get all their money back.
 
in my opinion, that is just what you get with young horses! they have their little habits and you have to work though them!

my boy is 4 I've had him since 18 months old, he's never been a kicker until now! he got an abscess last week, was sound my the weekend a sunday i tried to re do his poultice to keep the foot clean until he can be shod, he was going mad, kicking, snatching, tried again tonight and he's doing it again!
so I've asked my instructor to come and help me with him! he's takes the pee out of me but with men, he's so respectful! they test you because they are still learning and they don't always know what you are asking them!

he's gone through so many things, no standing for me to get on, planting out hacking but with the right training and patience he got over them! just need to work on his snatching and kicking now!

theres always something new, and it is a challenge but that is what you have to deal with when you have a young horse!
 
lamlyn2012 said:
As this was private sale the buyer is not protected by the sale of goods act. The buyer would have to prove that the horse was misrepresented in the sales particulars. Misrepresentation is difficult to prove and the buyer would have to PROVE that the horse displayed this behaviour prior to sale and that the vendor was aware of it. I am not a legal advisor but have studied this scenario. I would speak to BHS legal helpline or similar for confirmation but from what you've said I don't think you have anything to worry about. Feel sorry for the horse though.
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No suggestion that the OP will be sued or is liable in this instance. Whilst it may be annoying I'm sorry to labour the point here but the burden of proof is simply not as suggested in this thread i.e. no need to prove behaviour prior to sale, usual proof will be an ad deemed misrepresentative, evidence of behaviour and subsequent behaviour with expert opinion. Also no need to prove vendor aware of prior issues just that the horse isn't fit for purpose and or as described. Some buyers may be covered by house insurance for all legal action so this may be a risk when selling horses in a way that we may previously have regarded as a private sale.
 
OP I havent read all the responses but here's my view. If you feel morally obligated to take the horse back or you are a dealer with a reputation to protect and are in a position to do so, then go ahead and take it back. Otherwise, make it their problem to bring a claim against you. Dont volunteer anything up. Unless you want to be helpful, adopt a polite approach but offer nothing. Sounds harsh but surely those are the only two options.
 
I know of someone who is in exactly this situation, the buyers have legal cover via their home insurance and are threatening court action. she feels the horse is as described but has changed whilst in new home, i believe they've had the horse for over 6 months now but has decided to take horse back and refund money as she can't afford to pay out anymore for her own legal advice. As I said in a previous post, it's a legal minefield. I have never had a horse or pony that hasn't thrown up something in the first six months but that's horses! Unfortunately, there are relatively inexperienced people out there who think they are buying something like a car, you read the handbook and off you go!
Twinkley Lights said:
No suggestion that the OP will be sued or is liable in this instance. Whilst it may be annoying I'm sorry to labour the point here but the burden of proof is simply not as suggested in this thread i.e. no need to prove behaviour prior to sale, usual proof will be an ad deemed misrepresentative, evidence of behaviour and subsequent behaviour with expert opinion. Also no need to prove vendor aware of prior issues just that the horse isn't fit for purpose and or as described. Some buyers may be covered by house insurance for all legal action so this may be a risk when selling horses in a way that we may previously have regarded as a private sale.
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JCW said:
How awful! Was your sister hurt? I agree that there are also dishonest sellers out there, it's just from the sound of the OPs post, the buyers are looking to blame Op for there own shortcomings.
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Mainly bruising and mild concussion. Yes, I agree entirely with your comment re. the OP's post that the new owners are trying to blame OP in this instance which was why I stressed that I wasn't referring to OP, my reply was just a general comment in response to another reply. :)
 
OP, sorry to hear that you put so much work into a young horse for it to go belly up :(

Do you have a record of all texts/emails/paperwork etc with statements/comments from the buyer regarding the horse? If I were you, just in case they come back to hassle again, I would make a note of all conversations and you have had, a note of the trial period, the times they had ridden, that it was their choice to buy before trial was over, blood tests, checks etc. Document it all, so that you can clearly point out that they had every opportunity to find out about the horse and whether it was suitable for them. I would also offer them advice on the routine your horse had, so that they can indentify where they may need to consider readjusting what they are doing I.E more work, less feed.

Have a chat with Citizens advice too. They may not be equine friendly necessarily but they will be pretty clued up legislation concerning sale of goods etc and may well be able to give you clear advice.... unfortunately on a forum you may get varying opinions (unless someone from the legal profession has commented!). While the forum is useful, I would be careful not to take the word of all comments on here (of course good advice is offered, but you do not want to find yourself in a situation where you have more costs due to pursuing a claim, IF they did)- you are better to be fully aware and to protect yourself- you can never be too cautious when it comes to people like the buyer.
Really hope you get it sorted.
 
Seems like they are doing something if there is a vast change in behaviour, when is it kicking, tacking up ? are they pinching it somewhere ?
 
I used to be on a livery yard where someone bought a four year old pony from a dealer, she paid £4000. This pony was a star, the sort of young pony everyone would want to have, when it arrived it would do everything handled by children, the same every day, willing, an exceptional pony. Over the course of about a month through constant over work in the school, about two hours a day, and lack of any variety in its work they managed to turn it into a nappy naughty pony, my only surprise was it took it a month. The dealer took it back but I think they got half what they paid.

There seems to be a perception that once an pony or horse is broken to ride that's it job finished, when really that's just the start of its education and really it takes about two years of approiate work. People seem to think its like buying your kids a bike, you bring it home and let the kids do what they want. It makes you think there will be no animals to buy in the future because why would anyone want to break anything in only to have someone turn round a few weeks later and say its not right. They buy a newly broken pony because its cheaper and then expect it to behave like a 10 year old which they would have paid three times the price for.

I used to buy youngsters show them for a couple of years, break them and then sell, the ponies I have sold have done well and have had settled homes but it really makes me think is it worth the risk of some **** trying to sue you when they have messed up a nice pony.
 
By everything you have said OP you have done everything possible, 2 week trial then vet.

What did you write on the receipt as I this would be really pertinent.

For example of you wrote 'sale of 4 year old fred after 2 week trial on February 14th to February 28th 2014 sold as seen on this date ********

sellers signature

buyers signature

witnessed by

I doubt there would be ANY recourse!

I would check though with an equine solicitor just to make absolutely sure but there have been cases where private sellers have been taken through the courts usually for high value horses but not usually for low value but this day and age and a nation of complainers they are just trying to 'have their go'

I personally would fight fire with a huge fire engine and get a solicitors letter, as I am pretty sure they would back down especially when they realise what costs are ahead

Stuart Farr is the horse and hound solicitor and by far one letter from him tends to send them running for the hills

http://www.clarkewillmott.com/people/Stuart-Farr/213
 
Bonkers2 said:
What is he kicking suddenly after a month?
I suspect they are novice owners and just discovered they can't afford a horse, this idea that you have to provide a horse for them to ride/ruin then they demand refund of expenses is ridiculous.
Suggest they ask an equine vet to examine the horse, and if it is OK then they pay for a good BHSII instructor to come and help them out.
Something has gone wrong, probably they have just "changed their mind".
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They bought a horse for £1000 so VERY cheap, didn't get it vetted most likely because they didn't want to spend another few hundred pounds and very likely have now realised how expensive and time-consuming keeping a horse is going to be, especially in the winter months. The horse, being young is most likely just showing its natural distress at moving to a new environment with people it doesn't know (think how a child of 11 or 12 would react in the same situation) and the new owners haven't got the experience to deal with it. You bet they want to get rid and get the money back because they couldn't afford it in the first place. Poor horse and poor OP who I quite understand is not in a position to take the animal back.
 
I have known of 'novice' people who have bought young horses, all sparkly eyed and full of wonder at the new adventure they are beginning...............Don't stop to think that the horse is YOUNG.......needs education....THEY themselves also need to be educated along with the horse. Cant understand why the horse acts the way it is....it suddenly after jumping 30 jumps in a row doesn't want to jump. Wont stand still whilst they fling themselves on from the fence etc.

They blame the horse!

I bought a 7yr old cob....which as a cob the mentality is that of a 4yr old normal horse! I realised in about 8 months that we had issues and he needed to learn more than I could teach/deal with or afford lessons. So, I still loved said horse, but hit a brick wall, so what I did was I put him out on loan to a more able rider - not more experience, just a hell of a lot better than me. She was BRILLIANT. She wanted a first step in horse 'ownership' but she had an extremely experienced team on a BE yard.
What I got back was a good horse.

At no point did I ever think that his misbehaving in MY care was the previous owners fault...why would I as if she was drugging him then surely any hidden behaviour would be obvious within a week or so of moving him.

I just despair that some people seem to think horses are robots!
 
Again thanks everyone for helping me relax a little!
I've got some good help on my side if needed (legal help that is) and many shoulders to lean on.
I've got copies of previous correspondence between us, highlighting how wonderful it all is. (Last big 'wow, brilliant horse' message was 27th July)
Yet to receive any more messages of threatening words, but not holding my breathe on it staying that way, and apart from briefly saying how sorry I'm to hear it isn't going so well, and to offer some assistance if they would like, I'm not responding further. (heaven knows if even that is the right thing to do?)
 
I suspect you won't hear any more from them, but rather than go to see the horse tell them to get a vet and then an instructor. You could remind them horse was brilliant on 27th July , hence need for vet due to behaviour change.
 
Quick update....

Nothing. Not a whisper of any more threatening words. (Owner un-friended me on FB, but that is just petty). I know there is nothing I can do at the moment, but I can't help feel for the young horse. It's future may now be rather bleak, and I thought it would be very special for the owners and take them far. I so blame myself for selling it. I made the wrong judgement on that new owner, and I can't do anything about it.
My horsey family member is still furious, and is concerned that our names will soon be the topic of mass discussion, and not in a nice way either. I'm certainly not looking forward to that IF it should happen.
 
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