legal/vet advice needed

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tulipdesign

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Hi,
Im just looking for a bit of advice, My 22 year old retired mare shares a field with another mare and gelding. She is arthritic and suffers with tendonitis and therefore has no shoes. She is a gentle mare with no history of fighting or kicking in the field.
A larger gelding youngster was introduced to the field yesterday morning, returning to the farm yesterday i found my mare in her stable. I was then informed very nastily by the youngsters owner that my mare had double barrelled her youngster and kicked him in the head several times she then decided with her friend to put my mare in the stable for the safety of her youngster without informing me.
This morning I have had a phone call from her stating her horse is injured due to the kicking and she is calling a vet out. She wanted to know who I was insured with and if I had public liability I did not give her the information as she was verbally quite abusive but is stating she is sending me all vet bills etc. Could anyone tell me where I stand on this situation. Thank you
 
I think anyone who introduces a new horse into a herd without a period of controlled introductions, is asking for trouble. The new horse should have met the others in hand & over the fence 1st. We always take a few days (& longer) with new horse over the fence from the rest of the horses - it also allows worming etc. Mainly to guage the reaction of the others, sometimes they can take a real dislike to one another, sometimes the new horse is aggressive - you never know.

I am also assuming you didn't know this was going to happen, otherwise you would have been there. I would always insist there are a few people about to go and rescue horses if things get nasty.

If horse was just chucked in field, if you weren't informed & given the opportunity to be there or to get horse in yourself, then I would tell her to jog on. She can't get the bills sent to your house or anything of the sort, vet will only attend for the person paying the bill, unless there is permission granted - like when you are on holiday.
 
I agree with Siennasmum. If you are at a livery yard I would guess it is usual for them to have a disclaimer that horses are kept there at their own risk. Horses will kick out at each other and injuries happen in play as well as establishment of a pecking order. I cannot believe that you could be held responsible for one moment.
 
siennamum said:
I think anyone who introduces a new horse into a herd without a period of controlled introductions, is asking for trouble. The new horse should have met the others in hand & over the fence 1st. We always take a few days (& longer) with new horse over the fence from the rest of the horses - it also allows worming etc. Mainly to guage the reaction of the others, sometimes they can take a real dislike to one another, sometimes the new horse is aggressive - you never know.

I am also assuming you didn't know this was going to happen, otherwise you would have been there. I would always insist there are a few people about to go and rescue horses if things get nasty.

If horse was just chucked in field, if you weren't informed & given the opportunity to be there or to get horse in yourself, then I would tell her to jog on. She can't get the bills sent to your house or anything of the sort, vet will only attend for the person paying the bill, unless there is permission granted - like when you are on holiday.
Click to expand...

^^^^ this ^^^^
 
Sorry I should have said reintoduced, the youngster had been in the field with them for a few days without incident but then had been stabled for 6 weeks until introduced back.
As far as I am aware just herself and her friend who owns the other mare in the field. I dont really know her as the other mare is out 24/7 so she is hardly there. I was unaware the youngster was being let back out. Thank you
 
From an evidential/proof point of view,she's on a bit of a sticky wicket anyway-it is only the word of her&her friend that your horse was the culprit anyway. But irrespective of that,this is just one of the many things that happens with horses&has to be taken on the chin by the owner. Would she so readily cough up if situation reversed?? The fact that they had previously been out together with no trouble enforces the fact that this is 'one of those things' and just unlucky. I know of someone who's horse kicked another(witnessed by both parties) in the field,necessitating 6weeks cross tied box rest&many vet visits&that owner offered(as a gesture of goodwill) to pay the insurance excess for the claim but IMO,this can set a precedent and wouldn't be something you'd want the insurance company to get wind of:-/
 
This is one for your YO to deal with - clearly they should have been the first point of contact for this new person (who should not have removed your horse without your permission, but brought her horse in instead).

As for liability. You have none.
 
It doesn't really matter whose horse kicked whose-if she doesn't have hers insured thats tough she'll have to foot it. Were yours a known trouble maker turned out without introductions then she might have a slim case. But I'd be getting YO to remove hers from the field (surely if injured it should be resting.. ) as it has obviously stirred uup issues.
 
As already stated, you have no liability whatsoever. No more than you would have if her horse kicked yours.
Fault lays solely with YO who has obviously allowed the new horse to be turned out with no introduction period over a fence.
Refer livery to YO and I would also be wanting a word with YO about someone taking my horse out of the field without my permission.
 
I would have to say that for a sweet old mare to suddenly kick a young gelding in the head then a) he'd have to be awfully close and so, b) he may have been trying to mount her if she was in season (and remember mares are in season every 3 weeks for about 7 days or so all summer). Either way, horses will be horses and the gelding's owner hasn't got a leg to stand on. Lucky your mare didn't get hurt (have you checked her carefully in case this gelding WAS trying to mount her) by the gelding!
 
You are not responsible and this person is unreasonable, she created any problem and your mare should have been left in her field, complain to YO and particularly about abuse, request the woman does not turn her horse out with yours.
It all seems unlikely. There is always a risk of accidents and the owner assumes the risk unless the yard is clearly culpable, which is unlikely. If her horse was injured surely she had to remove it, so why remove yours?
 
Sadly, this is the nature of horses! The owner is being totally ridiculous, tell her to ask your horse who her insurers are and claim directly through her! I'm not even sure that if your mare WAS a known bully/aggressor there would be any claim paid out by any insurance company, it is what horses do! Personally I would have gone mental that they brought my mare out of the field without my permission - how dare they - unless there is an injury or permission I wouldn't ever dream of removing someone else's horse from a field and it isn't as if you were even close friends.

Don't offer to pay any vets bill or anything towards it and speak to YO about your horse being removed without your permission. If you put your horse in a field with other people's horses then you are taking the risk of this happening, no matter how well they know each other, it can happen at any time out, of the blue, even within a settled herd!
 
Thank you for all your advice and help......unfortunatly things turned even worse yesterday afternoon as I was confronted by the geldings owner and the yard. She is friendly with the yard manager.
My main concern was my horses welfare as i would not put it past the woman to hurt my horse (infact I think she had hit her when she brought her in) so I am moving yards tomorrow ad have blocked her telephoen number:)
 
I think it is one of those thing, contact solicator or BHS also note down anything that happenes and stick to the moral high ground no matter what. Also out of curiosity if she does actualy try and make you pay cna you let us know what happenes as i would be interested.
 
God how awful for you, and what a ridiculous turn of events.
Shame you've felt forced to move, I'd be fuming if it was me. You're best out of there if this is how the yard is managed, and the way they behave.
Hope the move goes ok - wonder if shes trying to recoup some of her previous vet bills from the previous box rest episode???
 
AFAIK (I'm not a lawyer) you have no financial liability for any injuries done by your horse in the field and vice versa - you can't claim if your horse is injured by another.

If we turn horses out in groups we have have legally accepted that accidents could happen.It's the same principle that includes things like barbed wire/machinery etc in turnout, that you knew that the danger was there and accepted the risk when you removed the headcollar. The only get out would be under the YO's duty of care if they put a horse that was known to be aggressive IF you had already asked that it wasn't turned out with yours but I imagine that both the instruction and acceptance of it would have to be in writing before their Ins Co would pay up!

She sounds like a nasty piece of work OP, I would be tempted to phone your Ins Co, ask their advice while emphasizing the fact that there are no independent witnesses and then give her your details just so she can be told by them just how deluded she is...but then again maybe I'm just childish :o
 
No,don't contact your insurance company! There is absolutely no need for them to know anything about it,as you are not liable. Move yards &don't look back:) Again,a shame you've had to move but if this woman is friends with the YO,it would only have been a matter of time b4 you'd have wanted to move anyway-she (woman)sounds like an unreasonable pain in the proverbial:-/
 
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