legislation will kill my horses, please help!

That was nearly a year ago mind....

I don't understand, it says it all there, my local RS used to host a one day version of OP's business, it was own a pony day....with insurance and tack provided.

on the other hand I don't see how she's had new fencing and a school yet has barbed wire and rusty fencing... Maybe just me.

Also, OP, I am not of the traveller nature, BUT, if you'd like all scrap cars etc removed I'd be willing to do this... For free ;)
Bugger pleading poverty when you have 200acres strewn with scrap metal...


There's my piece, tbh no matter what we say it's falling on dead ears so let's all go have a pint, be a better use of time and money for that matter.
 
Has no-one here even considered how little you actually know about this place? I've just sat here and read through the whole thread, and honestly, I am disgusted! Please stop making assumptions about a place you really do know nothing about. I know for a fact that the stallion mentioned earlier on has been gelded, a year ago plus. Those links to websites about 'little champs' are nothng do do with friends of champ. The fields of friends of champ are not littered with scrap metal, neither do they breed horses. You seem to forget that they are in fact a recue centre, and some horses rescued may be pregnant mares, as the OP stated, it is possible to rescue a mare not knowing she was newly pregnant. Some horses at friends of champ are also other people's horses who have sent them there because funnily enoug, they know they will be cared for properly. And hey you guessed it, some of those may be pregnant mares! As for one comment I saw about puppies... what does that even have to do with this yard?
Asking people to kindly keep their noses out of this please, the OP was just asking for HELP, she was not asking to be slated by people who don't even know the situation.
 
TB135 said:
Has no-one here even considered how little you actually know about this place? I've just sat here and read through the whole thread, and honestly, I am disgusted! Please stop making assumptions about a place you really do know nothing about. I know for a fact that the stallion mentioned earlier on has been gelded, a year ago plus. Those links to websites about 'little champs' are nothng do do with friends of champ. The fields of friends of champ are not littered with scrap metal, neither do they breed horses. You seem to forget that they are in fact a recue centre, and some horses rescued may be pregnant mares, as the OP stated, it is possible to rescue a mare not knowing she was newly pregnant. Some horses at friends of champ are also other people's horses who have sent them there because funnily enoug, they know they will be cared for properly. And hey you guessed it, some of those may be pregnant mares! As for one comment I saw about puppies... what does that even have to do with this yard?
Asking people to kindly keep their noses out of this please, the OP was just asking for HELP, she was not asking to be slated by people who don't even know the situation.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum!

Some of the points made are very valid though. Keeping 100 horses is a HUGE task, even if they do live out and it does sound very much like a business. A stallion WAS used on the OP's mares as well as advertised to public stud. Yes. he may now be a gelding, but it does rather give the impression of either generating income or indescriminate breeding.

People on this forum tend not to take things at face value and there are some very good diggers, so don't be surprised to be pulled up on things you fail to mention here ;)
 
TB135 said:
Has no-one here even considered how little you actually know about this place? ...Asking people to kindly keep their noses out of this please, the OP was just asking for HELP, she was not asking to be slated by people who don't even know the situation.
Click to expand...

Hi TB135- when Champion44 asked for our advise on what the council was requesting then we asked for more information on the ins and outs of her 'business/ charity/ place' to be able to advise her further. This was not forthcoming so we did our own research.

We found out that two horses had escaped and got into the river and one had drowned. We found out that she was breeding from a common coloured cob. We found out she does not have charitable status. We found out that there is scrap in the fields and rusted barbed wire fences. We found out that there is indiscriminate breeding of puppies on the yard.

We have also found out that lots of people got their first oportunity to 'own' a horse at this establishment, and it is obvious that the OP cares for all animals that come to her. This caring must be tempered with common sense. Breeding poor quality foals is not good business sense- let alone horse sense!

It seems to us that places like the WHW, or Redwings have spot perfect facilities- this actually encourages us to part with our hard earned money and to earn our respect for the work they do!

Maybe the OP could take some advise and bring the place up to scratch to visibly match the amount of effort she seems to put into the facility!
 
OP, just had a good old nosey on your FB page. Some lovely looking horses. Quite a few foals born last year?? Hopefully you've stopped breeding now, and really have had your stallion cut.

I think bottom line is you are an establishment that collects horses (and yes probably in need), and funds their keep by running an unofficial riding establishment - hence why the council are chasing you.

So you're going to have to stump up with the money. Rhino has given you some great links at the start of this thread - and hopefully now you're in a position to research a little more, get your house in order and move forward.

You're not quite as niaive in terms of business as your original post would make out - I suspect you're very savvy......., but have now fallen foul of the authorities.

I really do wish you the best of luck with your venture (and stop breeding).
 
Clippy said:
Welcome to the forum!

Some of the points made are very valid though. Keeping 100 horses is a HUGE task, even if they do live out and it does sound very much like a business. A stallion WAS used on the OP's mares as well as advertised to public stud. Yes. he may now be a gelding, but it does rather give the impression of either generating income or indescriminate breeding.

People on this forum tend not to take things at face value and there are some very good diggers, so don't be surprised to be pulled up on things you fail to mention here ;)
Click to expand...

Agreed, in general if youre needing help forum members are great, but if they think theres even the slightest chance theyre being taken for a ride theyre not long in finding out. OP said she only wanted to be within the law, the council officals can tell her how to do that, she was looking at how she could get more money to let her do it, she's already using some of the horses to do this, by effectively renting them out to people which seems to be why she's in the pickle she's in now, but nobody can find the place as a registered charity !!!!!
Is it a registered charity ?????
After reading this thread and seeing how the place has been funded, i can quite understand why some people have drawn the conclusions they have.
If you were an outsider looking in you would have alarm bells ringing as well
 
TB135 said:
Has no-one here even considered how little you actually know about this place? I've just sat here and read through the whole thread, and honestly, I am disgusted! Please stop making assumptions about a place you really do know nothing about. I know for a fact that the stallion mentioned earlier on has been gelded, a year ago plus. Those links to websites about 'little champs' are nothng do do with friends of champ. The fields of friends of champ are not littered with scrap metal, neither do they breed horses. You seem to forget that they are in fact a recue centre, and some horses rescued may be pregnant mares, as the OP stated, it is possible to rescue a mare not knowing she was newly pregnant. Some horses at friends of champ are also other people's horses who have sent them there because funnily enoug, they know they will be cared for properly. And hey you guessed it, some of those may be pregnant mares! As for one comment I saw about puppies... what does that even have to do with this yard?
Asking people to kindly keep their noses out of this please, the OP was just asking for HELP, she was not asking to be slated by people who don't even know the situation.
Click to expand...

This! I cannot believe how vindictive and bitchy this forum can be sometimes.
 
where is this puppy breeding thing coming from? Can someone show me a link to this please?



There isn't any cars/scrap metal in the fields I was there last year and walked them.

can someone send me links to all the places you have found these photos from I want to see if it is Friends of Champ or not.

BTW I'm not looking for an arguement I just want to see this proof you have found.

Thanks
Square
 
TB135 said:
Those links to websites about 'little champs' are nothng do do with friends of champ.
Click to expand...

why are there pictures of the same coloured cob on the fb page that was linked then as was pictured on stallions online



http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.114342448651827.27533.100002282178601&type=3

^^ square that is one of the links having been given and I think is the one referring to the foals and puppies, I haven't spotted the scrap metal on that link but not looked at all the pics
 
Last edited:
Square said:
where is this puppy breeding thing coming from? Can someone show me a link to this please?



There isn't any cars/scrap metal in the fields I was there last year and walked them.

can someone send me links to all the places you have found these photos from I want to see if it is Friends of Champ or not.

BTW I'm not looking for an arguement I just want to see this proof you have found.

Thanks
Square
Click to expand...

From what i've seen i think there may be some confusion with regards to puppy breeding. I think Penny has an acqaintance who breeds puppies (in a manner which i do not approve of from first impressions). I have come to this conclusion from lookng at the facebook page for 'friends of champ' http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002282178601#!/profile.php?id=100002282178601&sk=info

A further concern from others on the forum is the advertisment of a stallion for stud (of unknown breeding) using contact details for a Penny Tubbs who has the same mobile number as advertised on the website for the 'sanctuary'.

http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_13924.html

http://friendsofchamp.co.uk/default.aspx
 
Square said:
where is this puppy breeding thing coming from? Can someone show me a link to this please?

There isn't any cars/scrap metal in the fields I was there last year and walked them.

can someone send me links to all the places you have found these photos from I want to see if it is Friends of Champ or not.
Click to expand...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...48651827.27533.100002282178601&type=3&theater

I don't know about puppy breeding, but there are plenty of puppy photos in the same album.
 
Ok, Had a look through I found one photo of a foal with old cars in the background and agree, they should be removed from the field or be fenced off, so the horses cannot get near them.

The puppies have nothing to do with friends of champ, the facebook page is probably made by one of the girls who loans from friends of champ who has added those photo's in un-necessarily.

I know they get a lot of cases of taking on mares and then finding out that these mares are pregnant after.

Personally dont like the barbed wire fencing but people do use it. Never heard of one getting hurt from it.
 
I think it was also stated that she wanted to take all the puppies home but wouldn't as they'd only be replaced with others?

To be fair to the op, although I don't condone breeding, (especially when you are in the business of rescuing and can see what happens when things go wrong,) the horses do look well cared for and I hope that she makes a success of managing to work things out with the licensing. I haven't seen the bad fencing, but one photo of a horse eating acorns :eek:

I hope that things work out well with the OP, but also that she is careful not to become the rescuer that needs rescuing, perhaps limiting the number of horses in her care.
 
champion44 said:
I cannot find anywhere to do replies, so am putting one on here, I am totally blown away by all the bitterness on here!!! why? I do not sell horses, I do rescue horses. yes we have foals, last year we bought a lovely young mare with bad scarring who had been sold for meat, she later produced a beautifu;ll foal, both would have died, if I can manage it they will stay with me for their whole lives. yes we rent fields at the back of a scrapyard, beautifull 200acres with a river running through it, we make no profits of any sort...we have NO welfare issues, all the horses passed the vet, I WANT to be within the law, I think it is right that we are, I just don't know how to go about it, why is everyone SO determind to be horrid, what did I ever to to you? don't bother to [post, I won't be coming back!!!! Friends of Champ
Click to expand...

Why would you go and buy a mare that was sold for meat?
Most (and I know there are exceptions, before people jump on me!) horses going for meat, go for a reason....
Quote "If I can manage it, they will stay with me for their whole lives", unquote.
Would it not be more sensible to find long term homes for your "rescues", specifically youngstock, as you seem to be committing yourself to a time span of many years to these foals born out of "rescue" mares.
That way you can keep the numbers down and cope better financially surely.

As far as the council goes, I'm with them. You are hiring out horses to ride, therefore...
 
amymay said:
OP, just had a good old nosey on your FB page. Some lovely looking horses. Quite a few foals born last year?? Hopefully you've stopped breeding now, and really have had your stallion cut.

I think bottom line is you are an establishment that collects horses (and yes probably in need), and funds their keep by running an unofficial riding establishment - hence why the council are chasing you.

So you're going to have to stump up with the money. Rhino has given you some great links at the start of this thread - and hopefully now you're in a position to research a little more, get your house in order and move forward.

You're not quite as niaive in terms of business as your original post would make out - I suspect you're very savvy......., but have now fallen foul of the authorities.

I really do wish you the best of luck with your venture (and stop breeding).
Click to expand...

I think this sums up the situation perfectly. The riding school I learnt (virtually lived) at as a child in the 70s was probably not dissimilar and sailed very close to the wind on most regulatory issues. BUT the horses were all loved and cared for and gave a lot of pleasure to a lot of children who otherwise wouldn't have had the opportunity. Certainly looking through the facebook page I can see that you and your clients/volunteers really do care about the horses. And I was interested to read the requests you made to see insurance for all your loaners to comply with council requirements.

Sadly however life moves on and there are many more legal requirements for running these sort of establishments. The fall out from this is that many places have had to close resulting in financial hardship for those involved and more and more horses without places to call home. I hope this doesn't happen to you, and that you will be able to work out how to comply with the regulations.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Whatever the circumstances of this place, I am seriously concerned by the obnoxious replies the OP has received. Good job you're all whiter than white and so bloody perfect! Maybe the OP isn't and hasn't done things as she should, but there is no need for some of the replies.
Click to expand...

I agree some of the posts have been harsh, but if youre taking money from people in this way you need to be whiter than white and completely transparent in what youre doing, this thread is the result of what happens when you get it wrong.
 
Square said:
Ok, Had a look through I found one photo of a foal with old cars in the background and agree, they should be removed from the field or be fenced off, so the horses cannot get near them.

The puppies have nothing to do with friends of champ, the facebook page is probably made by one of the girls who loans from friends of champ who has added those photo's in un-necessarily.

I know they get a lot of cases of taking on mares and then finding out that these mares are pregnant after.

Personally dont like the barbed wire fencing but people do use it. Never heard of one getting hurt from it.
Click to expand...

I have!!! SERIOUSLY injured foal completely entwined in the exact same fencing as OP has. Off hind with bone protruding and a seriously ill foal resulted. Completely unnecessary, not meeting the animal's needs and therefore an offence. That offence caused unnecessary suffering. I know people do use it, but for a 'charity' with very young foals wandering around that are now saying they can't afford to keep them then it's not acceptable. Had they taken on less 'rescues' (though I personally don't class horses going for meat as rescues unless they are being transported illegally and inadequately or slaughtered inhumanely) and concentrated more on providing the correct and appropriate conditions for a smaller amount of horses then they wouldn't find themselves in this unfortunate situation.
 
TB135 said:
I know for a fact that the stallion mentioned earlier on has been gelded, a year ago plus.
Click to expand...

Yet on his advert is clearly states

Every mare covered since Oct (10) has taken on first try
Click to expand...

As you don't cover mares in the winter that suggests to me he was at stud for at least part of the last stud season.. So he could not have been castrated over a year ago :confused:

Plus OP mentioned castrating him in his 'late teens', well he is only 17 now :confused: Can you see why things are not adding up for us?
 
jokadoka said:
Why would you go and buy a mare that was sold for meat?
Most (and I know there are exceptions, before people jump on me!) horses going for meat, go for a reason....
Click to expand...

I know this mare, and she is wonderful! Horses that are sold for meat definitely do not 'go for a reason'. I suspect that the only reason this mare in particular was going for meat was because she has very bold scarring on both sides which is extremely noticeable. Apart from those which are purely cosmetic, she is wonderful to ride and a fantastic jumper.
 
Last edited:
rhino said:
Yet on his advert is clearly states



As you don't cover mares in the winter that suggests to me he was at stud for at least part of the last stud season.. So he could not have been castrated over a year ago :confused:

Plus OP mentioned castrating him in his 'late teens', well he is only 17 now :confused: Can you see why things are not adding up for us?
Click to expand...

Yes, I can see why things are not adding up for you. But I assure you, he has been gelded. I didn't even know he was online, I have never heard anything about anyone actually using him for breeding... yes, he used to be a stallion, but he isn't any more, because they did not want to breed from him.
 
In most cases they do have a reason. My fantastic jumping pony was going for meat if I didn't have him. He's a bolter and can be damned dangerous.
 
TB135 said:
Yes, I can see why things are not adding up for you. But I assure you, he has been gelded. I didn't even know he was online, I have never heard anything about anyone actually using him for breeding... yes, he used to be a stallion, but he isn't any more, because they did not want to breed from him.
Click to expand...

Why was he advertised as a breeding stallion then?
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
Why was he advertised as a breeding stallion then?
Click to expand...

Agree! OP you must be a born liar or someone has used your name fraudulently then. I would get on to the police sharpish in your case then if what you say is true because someone has used your name to advertise him as a breeding stallion!!! Oh and you did mention in one of your posts that you took him on and thought it would be a good money maker to use him to cover mares?!!! Your stories are falling apart OP.
 
Just going to point out to everyone who has said things about this yard having 'scrap metal, scrap cars and dangerous fencing' etc. - there was an inspection done there end of December, and they passed. If the place was in a bad state, it would not have passed, would it?
 
after a big tidy up by the sounds of it on the fb page.

and even if people wanted to use her rescue stallion the op should have said no and always said no, not advertised him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top