legislation will kill my horses, please help!

Moomin1 said:
Because we are not stupid or blind. Simples. All OP and yourselves seem to actually be responding to and saying is that the OP is great and that we don't know the situation, and that she isn't breeding or has never had a stallion etc etc. Not one of the other worries or concerns has been responded to. Then again, your not obliged to. Just seems odd that's all. If you really want to defend OP and she is so perfect then how can you not respond about the acorns or the fencing or the riding establishment etc?!!
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Because like everyone else on this forum, I don't know the full situation. I have not once said that she has never had a stallion, because she has, but the point I made was that he had been gelded. She used to keep him somewhere away from the main yard, but he has since been gelded and moved in with the other horses. I just think people need to be more fair, yes you have found things online that make this place look like a dodgy 'fake sanctuary' as someone called it? But everyone has been picking on things they have found where pictures may be old, things might be improved since, etc. etc.
 
rockysmum said:
In which case you can hardly expect anyone to value your opinion, you are hardly unbiased.

If people come on here with a business, charity or whatever which is easily traced on the internet they should expect people to do some research. I have also seen the facebook page, what do you expect a forum full of horse professionals and horse lovers to think about some of the things posted on there.

The OP made a serious error of judgement coming on here for advice, perhaps there are forums out there which would have taken her at face value, this isn't one of them.

To be honest I have been quite surprised at how mild the opposition to the OP is, I've seem a lot worse for a lot less.
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I completely agree with you that she shouldn't have come on here, or any forum for that matter for advice on this issue. I agree that she has gone about this problem in the wrong way, but I do not agree with the things that people have been saying about her yard. Having been to this place myself I have seen that the horses there are happy and in good condition, and she does a wonderful job on those that come to her in bad condition. All she wanted from this was some USEFUL advice on how to save her horses, and didn't deserve to be slated.
 
TB135,

The photos were posted at the end of summer last year in the main. I have no doubt that things were shifted here and there before the inspection, but that does not make a good sanctuary or charity. It should never have been like that and anyone who thinks it was excusable is an idiot. Also, more worryingly so, even though you don't seem to be able to answer or defend this up to now, the comments made by other loaners etc at the place were all EXTREMELY recent ie end of last year, beginning of this year. The place sounds nothing short of a shambles, with god knows how many teenagers trawling the place unaccounted for on different days, making arrangements between themselves as to who is riding who or doing what, and also friends/mothers/family suddenly coming up to have a ride on the horses because they fancy it - without OP ever having assessed their suitability. In one post someone asked if their friend could lead a shetland out on a ride with them, and all OP asked on fb was "Is she ok with horses, so and so can be a difficult one?". It's an accident waiting to happen and I'm suprised no one has been seriously hurt or worse. As for the riding establishment side of things. Are you saying that people don't have lessons there? Leonie/Leona or whoever it is seems to come over (picked up by OP) quite frequently to give lessons, and to loaners on OP's horses. Mostly sounding like complete beginners as they are requesting to learn how to sit to the trot. That is a riding school I'm afraid. A dodgy one too.
 
TB135 said:
]. All she wanted from this was some USEFUL advice on how to save her horses, and didn't deserve to be slated.
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And she got useful advice and plenty of links to different sites that would help.

Ok, she got slated but what did she expect? There are many people from legitimate riding schools and charities on here, as well as people that work in equine law and various councils. People do not take kindly to people trying to pose as something they are not.

Had she been a charity or riding school just starting out looking for advice I am sure people would have been much more accomodating but to come on here with some fanciful figures plucked from midair and an emotive story about horses having to be PTS riled people up the wrong way.
 
TB135 said:
I completely agree with you that she shouldn't have come on here, or any forum for that matter for advice on this issue. I agree that she has gone about this problem in the wrong way, but I do not agree with the things that people have been saying about her yard. Having been to this place myself I have seen that the horses there are happy and in good condition, and she does a wonderful job on those that come to her in bad condition. All she wanted from this was some USEFUL advice on how to save her horses, and didn't deserve to be slated.
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I think she has had some very useful advice on here. Particular useful is the fact that not everyone on here thinks the set up is wonderful. I suspect that she is surrounded by people like yourself who are only seeing the good and not looking a little deeper. Staying within the law, particularly regarding things like fire and insurance are essential in these "no win no fee" days. Bottom line is this lady is likely to be breaking the law, the council obviously thinks so. She needs to sort the place out, if the comments on here encourage her to do so, then it was a worthwhile exercise.

Perhaps rather than offering unconditional support you could visit and help plan how the establishment could move forward.
 
TB135 you also say earlier that the stallion was gelded because they didn't want to breed from him. Have you read OP's comments on that subject?
 
Moomin1 said:
In one post someone asked if their friend could lead a shetland out on a ride with them, and all OP asked on fb was "Is she ok with horses, so and so can be a difficult one?".
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The one I found worrying when one girl was obviously scared after her horse had taken off (I can't say bolting as it may well not have been) and gone THROUGH a barbed wire fence. The OP responded 'She was enjoying herself, fun, fun, fun' :eek: How is that fun for the horse OR the rider?

Or when the girl had come off and broken her hand and the OP advised anyone else who wanted to ride it should 'lunge it for hours' :(

Or the several instances (I saw at least 3) when horses had escaped from the field, some being found on a road and others 'past the sewage works' where OP had difficulty returning them 'without drowning in the river'

Of course the fb page is down now :rolleyes:
 
Yeah I know Rhino!! There were too many dispicable comments and scenarios on there for me to even remember, hence the constant posts as I remember bits and bobs!!! I have an image in my head of this place which can only be best likened to the Thelwell books!
 
rhino said:
The one I found worrying when one girl was obviously scared after her horse had taken off (I can't say bolting as it may well not have been) and gone THROUGH a barbed wire fence. The OP responded 'She was enjoying herself, fun, fun, fun' :eek: How is that fun for the horse OR the rider?

Or when the girl had come off and broken her hand and the OP advised anyone else who wanted to ride it should 'lunge it for hours' :(

Or the several instances (I saw at least 3) when horses had escaped from the field, some being found on a road and others 'past the sewage works' where OP had difficulty returning them 'without drowning in the river'

Of course the fb page is down now :rolleyes:
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I haven't read these fb posts for myself, but I'm sorry TB135, I think your friend is a liability. A danger to herself and the loaning 'mums' that are trusting her judgement regarding the safety of their children. Seems to me the council are doing their job. Good on them I say :)
 
I am inclined to agree with TB135 because people are being extremely judgemental and nit-picking about someone that most people have never yet, about a yard they have never been to, and based on hearsay and assumptions: it actually reminds me of all the rugging posts with people slating each other for either cooking their horses or freezing them! I think we all agree that the OP should be doing things differently, but you can't deny that not everything she has done is evil and illegal! Using online sources to slate someone and be rude and antagonstic when none of us can possibly know the whole situation, is pretty shameful to be honest. By all means give constructive advice in a tactful and sensitive manner, but there is no need to be rude and attack the OP on a personal level. It just shows how judgemental and narrow this forum can be, because the OP is a newbie and pretty shocked at the responses she has received. If she defends herself then people only go and check her up online to find more fault! It's insane. Like I said, I think everyone agrees that the OP has a lot of work to do and a lot of issues to work on, but none of us are perfect and I'm sure we all keep our horses in different ways that would horrify some people. This isn't the best impression of how fantastic H&H can be.
 
rhino said:
The one I found worrying when one girl was obviously scared after her horse had taken off (I can't say bolting as it may well not have been) and gone THROUGH a barbed wire fence. The OP responded 'She was enjoying herself, fun, fun, fun' :eek: How is that fun for the horse OR the rider?

Or when the girl had come off and broken her hand and the OP advised anyone else who wanted to ride it should 'lunge it for hours' :(

Or the several instances (I saw at least 3) when horses had escaped from the field, some being found on a road and others 'past the sewage works' where OP had difficulty returning them 'without drowning in the river'

Of course the fb page is down now :rolleyes:
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OMG seriously :eek::eek:I only went on and looked at some pics, never read any comments, and im glad i didnt if the above is correct.
If these comments are correct, that is awful .
 
There are plenty of threads on here were people post pictures of their skinny rescue horses etc, and everyone ooh's and ahh's and says how awful it is that the old owner could let it get so bad and that they have committed offences etc etc. Also, people jump on the bandwagon about horses being kept in excessively muddy fields with cracked hooves and matted tails. These can all be considered not meeting the needs of horse's in the eyes of The Animal Welfare Act. This OP is breaking the law. The council have spotted it and that legislation is there to protect people and horses. There ARE also welfare breaches there too. If you saw those horses in a field full of ragwort and she was asking for donations, would you still be inclined to say that she is trying her best etc etc? I doubt it. There is no difference in this case. The horses are not protected from injury and not in a suitable environment.
 
Yes Marydoll, those comments are true!! I saw them too. There were lots more than that too! I imagine no doubt that they have been swiftly removed.
 
marydoll said:
OMG seriously :eek::eek:I only went on and looked at some pics, never read any comments, and im glad i didnt if the above is correct.
If these comments are correct, that is awful .
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I'm afraid those comments are correct :(

Puzzles - nobody has said OP is evil, so I'm not sure if you are trying to stir things a little.

Illegal - quite possibly, IF she doesn't follow the council's procedures and obtain her riding school license, sorting out the stabling and other 'health and safety issues' which were not mentioned in her posts her but were on fb.

Misguided - again, I agree with others that I have no doubt her intentions were good, but sometimes good intentions are simply not enough.
 
rhino said:
I'm afraid those comments are correct :(

Puzzles - nobody has said OP is evil, so I'm not sure if you are trying to stir things a little.

Illegal - quite possibly, IF she doesn't follow the council's procedures and obtain her riding school license, sorting out the stabling and other 'health and safety issues' which were not mentioned in her posts her but were on fb.

Misguided - again, I agree with others that I have no doubt her intentions were good, but sometimes good intentions are simply not enough.
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Definitely not a stirrer here. Just starting to think people may be going a bit far. As I said, noone denies (see my first post) that, heart in the right place though it may be, what the OP is doing cannot carry on and things must change quickly.
 
If tomorrow you saw that one of those horses had died as a result of liver failure, due to poisoning from acorns, or broke it's leg in the shoddy fencing, or a fire started and kids and horses were killed due to the lack of fire precautions, then would you still feel that people were going too far on here to try and drum the message home to someone who gets completely hysterical when advised and defends everything by suggesting we all want her horses killed? This is not a reasonable horse owner, this is a classic hoarder who will not see sense no matter what dangers or incidents take place. I SERIOUSLY hope for everyone's sake that she is dealt with appropriately by the authorities. It would be nice for OP to come on here and show what improvements have been made and the intentions for further improvements. I doubt that will happen, but I may well be proved wrong. Let's hope so!
 
Op it sounds like a good thing the council have became involved, if anything they may be able to guide you through the legislation to ensure your place is run in a safe legal manner, in this day and age of litigation the comments others have seen of the fb page give real cause for concern for the safety of horses and visitors/riders at your establishment detailed within them.
I really hope this is resolved quickly, and i also really hope you are insured
 
Marydoll she isn't insured. She asks her loaners to take their own insurance out and up until very recently she didn't even ask to see the insurance until the council suggested to her that she checked. She then frantically chased this up on fb asking all loaners to bring in a copy of their documents. She also mentions that she never normally does paperwork. :eek:
 
marydoll said:
Op it sounds like a good thing the council have became involved, if anything they may be able to guide you through the legislation to ensure your place is run in a safe legal manner, in this day and age of litigation the comments others have seen of the fb page give real cause for concern for the safety of horses and visitors/riders at your establishment detailed within them.
I really hope this is resolved quickly, and i also really hope you are insured
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Well said.
 
Things are far from perfect and ideally it would be time to do things by the book if not simply to allow fund raising to begin and in turn, make improvements for the animals. I suspect that this is impossible to arrange due to financial reasons.
I want to confirm that I'm not the OP (not sure what that stands for) as someone suggested we might be one and the same person, although you're correct in that I did only join to comment on this thread simply to counteract a few comments on here that were just not correct. I have no reason to be a fan of the place even though I spent time there, I simply wanted to discount the stories of breeding and profiteering which, quite rightly & understandably, would influence people's opinions and responses even more :l
 
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You have provided some great links on here and I just hope that the way to go has been found and I can only hope that the ball may be rolling in a better direction :confused: :)
 
Icklemee - I made the offer earlier but OP is welcome to pm me if she wants any info/help with the riding establishment license. I checked out the Stratford council regs and there is no need for individual stabling. I'm not sure what the other health and safety issues are but am happy to go through them if it will be any help. :)
 
rhino said:
Icklemee - I made the offer earlier but OP is welcome to pm me if she wants any info/help with the riding establishment license. I checked out the Stratford council regs and there is no need for individual stabling. I'm not sure what the other health and safety issues are but am happy to go through them if it will be any help. :)
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That's brilliant thanks for doing that, I just hope she reads this soon. Hopefully it won't be half as daunting as she imagines it is. There's got to be a way to do it and if she sees that some people simply want to improve things for the horses that are there then I'm hoping it will lift her spirits a lot, & give her some hope that it just might be do-able :)
 
rockysmum said:
Thats interesting, I thought TFC had removed these.

Sounds like she is only keeping the profitable horses now and getting rid of the rescues.
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No, the stable yard thread was removed, not this one. I have seen photos of some of the horses being rehomed, everything from youngstock to elderly horses, and I'm sure some were still rideable.
 
rhino said:
No, the stable yard thread was removed, not this one. I have seen photos of some of the horses being rehomed, everything from youngstock to elderly horses, and I'm sure some were still rideable.
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Did she contact you about the licence, it sounds like she is still renting the horses out.
 
rockysmum said:
Did she contact you about the licence, it sounds like she is still renting the horses out.
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Somehow I doubt the OP would contact anyone from this forum. :rolleyes:

I think what the OP wanted to hear was that we all thought the council was quite wrong, that hers isn't a riding establishment, but a reputable charity. She left outraged that that isn't what anyone thought.
 
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