Leibling off to Carl Hester then.

Yes we haven't heard from CH yet but in a way it feels worse for Anna because the decision is not about selling for the money and more about increased team opportunity or something under someone else. Maybe its all a bit political.

It doesn't sound as if Anna was party to the decision making and thats a shame.
 

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It doesn't sound as if Anna was party to the decision making and thats a shame.

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Yes,but the horse wasnt hers. The owner has every right to do what he wants with him.
 
I think thats quite harsh, if any rider puts their heart and soul into a horse and gets it to the level where its a recognised horse I personally think its morally and ethically right that the rider as a courtesy if nothing else is party to the decisions made about the horse.
 
Certainly it is the owner's prerogative to place their horse where they choose. I'm sure Carl will do a terrific job with this horse.

However, look at it like this. If you had been employed by someone for seven years, and had got excellent results in your work for most of those, how would you feel if out of the blue your boss called you in and said, "you're fired", and one day later someone else was doing your job. You'd be pretty angry and upset too. After seven years I'm sure there are better ways of dissolving a partnership.......
 
totally agree with that half step as clearly from the earlier news piece that horse and hound didnt magic out of thin air there are bad feelings somewhere. maybe owner is thinking bout the europeans next year for which carl is virtually certain to go (us being home side and all i think we get to run couple extra) even on a hobby horse.
 
With Dolendo sadly broken, Carl is without a really world class GP horse (Lecantos, nice as he is, isn't one of those).

Lenny will suit him - hot, forward, talented......

But lets not forget who got him there!
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I think thats quite harsh, if any rider puts their heart and soul into a horse and gets it to the level where its a recognised horse I personally think its morally and ethically right that the rider as a courtesy if nothing else is party to the decisions made about the horse.

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I agree,it isnt fair at all.
I remember how hard Anna worked with Jake years ago,she will have put the same amount of blood,sweat and tears in ANY horse she is involved with and given it her heart.
But,fact remains that the owner will want the horse in the place he think it has the most chance of doing well and has every right to send him to someone else if he wants to.

Like I said in the deleted thread,I belive Anna owns/part owns some of the horses she has comming up which will give her much greator security in the future.
I have always thought riders should have contracts for the horses they ride for other people,but it cost a hell of a lot to suport a horse to the tp level in any sport and owners want the best return on their investment they can get.

I do wonder what the ins and outs of it are though,the website ad for a clinic with her said she would be doing a preview of his 2009 to music test which says to em she had no idear she wouldnt be involved with him next year.
 

In the past, when a top horse has come up for sale, or been offered elsewhere, riders have grouped together and refused rides etc - both Mark Todd and Lee Pearson have ended up hanging onto horses because of comradeship among others.

Edited to delete personal references to CH
 
That is totally out of line and unfair on CH, who is one of the best horsemen in this country. Especially the bit about breaking horses. God knows horses break, its bloody awful when it happens, and you shouldn't go around casting aspersions.
 
No, it's not fair of the owner to have done that, it's awful, but the fact that none of us would do it doesn't make any difference, unfortunately. I really feel for her since she obviously really loves the horse.
Contrast this with a story I was told by a very very reputable source recently, of a top foreign dressage rider who competed a horse one day and had it shot the next, as she didn't get on with it and didn't want anyone else to get the ride...
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A lot of top horses change hands. Riders are rarely happy to lose a ride.
A lot of horses get injured too, sometimes I think it's pure luck, whether they're tough as hell or not...
 
Yes I saw the clinic details, its on Sat so there will either be some disappointed punters or she will have to re-work the clinic another way with another horse just to put on a display of some sort.

Not going to be easy.
 
It seems from reading between the lines it could have been handled better, especially from Annas' point of view. The one positive out of this though is at least this horse hasn't been sold abroad. It wasn't that long ago when Escapado was seemingly sold from under CH and he was in Annas' position.Hopefully Anna will get some comfort that Liebling will at least be in the British squad, and everybody will know who did the groundwork to get him there.

Annas' turn will come, and some other unfortunate rider may have to lose out then, this is the way it goes it seems, rightly or wrongly.
 
Yes i'm sure I read that the sale funded his yard, which was obviously no small sum. So i'd say he did pretty well out of it.

Still at the end of the day thats what business is about and good on him, time will tell whether it was the right choice to send Leibling away. Everyone will be watching the results with interest.
 
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iirc Carl owned Escapado, having bought him as a foal. Could be totally wrong though! I was told he sold for about £1m.
must admit, however much I loved a horse, that is a LOT of money and i think i'd take the money!

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Escapdo was imported as a youngster by the Assouline's and later sold to CH. On Assouline website it states;

"Escapado was imported and produced at home and competitions as a youngster by Assouline-Dressage and then sold to Carl."
 
CH part owned Escapado in conjunction with Rolly Luard, and in interviews at the time CH wasn't best pleased at the sale,and hinted that he had no choice and couldn't afford to buy out Luard. He has put a positive complexion on it since, and yes funded his yard with the proceeds.As things turned out with Escapados' soundness issues since it was the best thing to do but CH was defininitely not positive about the situation at the time.

I re-iterate,at least Liebling is staying in this country.
 
Indeed it is, the last word will go to the horse of course. If Liebling is a 'Mummy's Boy' I wonder............

Seriously though, it seems that in such case the horse becomes a commodity rather like a machine, this runs through from grass roots to the highest international level. You cannot always buy success, the rider has to work with the horse.

I hesitate to add that I am 'grass roots' and have clashed with a horse!
 
Well at least Liebling isn't being sold abroad. Of course it's sad for Anna but that is the risk you have to be prepared to take if you are willing to ride for an owner.
Carl took this risk when only half owning Escapado with Roly Luard and even though he had some of his highest times, I'm sure when the time came to selling him, it was heartbreaking. Carl was in no position to buy Ms Luard out, so I gather from above. Carl like Anna was not born into money so has had to work his way up and they both have done exceptionally well.
Think it's the time to get behind Carl and hope that he can get the best out of the horse for the Euros next year. I think we can start dreaming of another team medal at Windsor, with Laura, Emma and Carl making up a team all with top quality horses, we will be the strongest team since Hickstead '03.
An exciting time for British Dressage!!!!
 
The fact is that our dressage team at the Olympics was much poorer without the presence of Carl - we need him on our teams, he's the best rider we've got. And the best horses should be paired with the best riders (wasn't that Pammy Hutton's H&H column a couple of weeks ago?). The better we do in international team competitions the better it is for dressage as a whole - more money is ploughed in, more publicity - everyone benefits. Yes it's a huge personal loss for Anna who seems a lovely and level headed person and certainly doesn't deserve to have lost the horse but on a practical level, looking at the bigger picture I can totally understand what the horse's owner has done and I'm sure it wasn't a decision he took independently (thinking of Pammy Hutton's comments again).

Hopefully Anna has some lovely talented horses coming up the grades and her time will come.
 
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It is nearly always politics - either team politics, power politics, or the politics of sex - in my opinion. Horses change hands, riders get fired, decisions are made, which to even the fairly clued up observer, appear totally random. Underneath, there is a reason. And it is quite often stranger than fiction.
I know nothing at all about this case, by the way. I'm just generalising about the dressage world! (and I doubt if eventing or show jumping are much different.)
 
I can't comment on the rest of this story but I do believe that Carl Hester has great skill, great talent, and has coped with hot horses like Escapado in the past. I am desperately sorry for poor Anna, but I do believe Carl will do a fantastic job with the horse.
 
Oh my goodness... They were my all-time favourite pair.

I feel so desperately sorry for Anna
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However, I do think that, if this had to happen, CH is probably the best rider Lenny could have ended up with -- he's such a lovely rider.

And you're all very lucky that he gets to compete for Britain still (I'm Italian and we recently "lost" one of our very best horses ever, Andretti, to Laura B!).

Still, I'm so heartbroken for Anna
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I do feel desparately sorry for Anna but he was not her horse and although she has put a lot of work into him I would presume it was done in her employers time therefore she was paid for it. I dont know what arrangement they had but it is usual for the owner to pay for entry fees, travelling and training etc. So put yourself in the owners shoes, you are employing a yard manager, you give her a horse to ride, you pay all the expenses, you then have to give her time off to go and compete it, the horse then goes to Ulla's, this we know is not cheap, your yard manager goes out there regularly to have training, you have to get cover for when she is away, all this adds up to the point when you would start to think "do I really want a horse of this level at home" "would it not be cheaper to just put the horse with someone who will not be taking it abroad to train as he can do that himself" "plus I then get my yard manager back.

I am only guessing at this but trying to put myself in the owners place, after all he could have sold it but he hasn't just cut down on what it has cost him to keep it.

Also we dont really know what went on between Anna and owner but I do know that most of us would have never have heard of Anna Ross-Davies if it were not for Lenny's owner giving her that chance.
 
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