Lesley Skipper GUILTY

cornbrodolly said:
Met her once, and unfortunately my OH is in one of her books working with and riding our horses [ she took copious photos that day - and warned us they were her copyright and could never use them].

Do not wish to be associated with her
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Presumably your OH (and you?) entered into this arrangement willingly, otherwise you would have declined the offer of a photo session, or would have said you preferred not to be involved in the project after all. You could have done that after LS told you the pictures were copyright (an entirely normal stipulation), but perhaps you found the prospect of appearing in a book appealing - many people would. There's no point in griping about it now though, is there?

- disliked her as a 'know-it-all' at the time - she disparaged everyone.
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A not uncommon failing in horse people generally, in my experience.
 
hackedoff said:
The other truely wierd thing is that in the distressing pictures in the daily mail the horses who were pts (Navalis and a mare) looked immaculatly clean although clearly not mucked out for at least 6 months juding by the mounds of bedding.
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Distressing indeed - at least, the one of the grey mare (body condition score 1 by the looks of it) and naturally the one of Nirvalis (any photo of a dead horse is distressing). I would say the bedding photo was shocking rather than distressing. However... that leads to some general questions about depth of bedding. I have only ever deep-littered once - I'm not even sure I did it correctly, except to say that it I made sure the top layer stayed dry and that there wasn't an ammonia smell.

What is generally considered the maximum depth a deep-littered bed can be before removal? Or, to put it another way, what is the maximum period of time over which deep-littering can be carried out?
 
We deep littered a goat stable, it was about 6 months before we dug it out and it was about 5 inches deep and very compacted. Obviously a couple of goats produce less waste than a horse though!

As another poster pointed out the horses owned by LS were very clean, I imagine this plus her fond writing of them may indicate that she liked the fun side of horse ownership, the fussing and grooming but was simply too lazy to deal with the realities of muck and vet care

Plenty of clean straw on top of the old stuff probably made her think she was making a great job of it
 
All this trying to understand why LS has done this is acheiving nothing, if you want to try and udnerstand and help her then do so instead of ocming on horse forums having a go at people that were genuinely upset by what happened to these horses.

If she had asked for help help would have been there, simple.

Trying to put other posters down on here and AL is doing nothing at all, and as for the person who burned her booked, then if it made her feel better about the whole situation then why not, it didnt hurt anyone and to try and put her down on here is quite pathetic really.

At the end of the day the Skippers were guilty of neglect and abuse and no amount of trying to understand why they did it will bring the horses back.

The sentence passed that they can never own horses again speaks volumes and thank god for that, no more horses can suffer in their hands.
 
gabriel68 said:
All this trying to understand why LS has done this is acheiving nothing
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With all due respect, not everyone agrees with you about that. If you don't like it, just ignore it.

, if you want to try and udnerstand and help her then do so instead of ocming on horse forums having a go at people that were genuinely upset by what happened to these horses.
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I am genuinely upset by what happened, and feel a bit offended that anyone should think otherwise just because I choose not to join in the howls of execration (sorry, quoting the last line of a school text I was made to read).

Trying to put other posters down on here and AL is doing nothing at all, and as for the person who burned her booked, then if it made her feel better about the whole situation then why not, it didnt hurt anyone and to try and put her down on here is quite pathetic really.
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Maybe that comment was uncalled for, I dunno - book burning just pushes a button for me.

no amount of trying to understand why they did it will bring the horses back.
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No, but if it helps prevent something similar happening in the future to even one horse it is worth it in my opinion.
 
gabriel68 said:
At the end of the day the Skippers were guilty of neglect and abuse
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What abuse? The word "abuse" suggests something other than, and beyond, neglect - that something cruel was deliberately done to the horses, rather than something that they failed to do. I don't recall seeing that word used in any of the newspaper reports. Is there more we don't know about??
 
I know that on AL LS tried to say that it was all caused by an argument with a neighbour who then started trouble causing including calling the rspca, which is possible. In addition the problems were laminitics and poor dentation - all quite plausable if it wasnt for the photos of the 'deep litter' so some of the 'fluffy' AL posters were given fuel to sympathise with her.

I think the verdict was neglect, which is you think about it is a form of abuse. I dont want to get involved in the mud slinging between other posters, the thing that really worrys me and I do want to understand is how some one can change over a relativly short space of time.

Some of LS's books show her horses at home in quite recent times , easily verified by Navalis having changed to white grey. The stables looked fine.

I do wonder if LS genuinly has a health issue given that she seems to have totally shut off what happened to Navalis and I think his dam from her mind. Of course I could be cyncial and believe she is trying to decieve everyone, but equally she may genuinely be ill and unable to recognise/face reality.

On the otherhand depression and post tramatic stress seem to be trundled out as an excuse for anything, which is equally sad given that genuine suffers are then treated as having less credibility than should be the case.
 
Yes,Hackedoff, I agree with you, Abuse is some form of neglect! If people can see that then there lies the problem.

Neglect or abuse is the same thing to me. I dont thinkf or one minute they were whipping their horses but theywere causing pain to them by neglect, the same thing in my eyes.
 
Re the question on deep littering - it isn't a case of how long can you keep doing it. To manage a deep litter straw bed properly you are supposed to (once the bed is established) pull back the loose straw and remove thin slices from the top (with a shovel) on a regular basis so that it doesn't become unmanageable.
As for the debate on the use of the word 'abuse' - how about abuse of trust? You only have to look at the eyes of that sweet little grey mare who was reduced to skin and bone. I will say no more.
 
I think leaving horses suffering with laminitis without any veterinary treatment, or even just arranging euthanasia, is pretty damn abusive.
 
Sorry, may i ask a random question that has nothing to do with this case but about posts and posting.
Did Lesley skipper post her defence message on HHO herself and if so, where. Or did puppy provide us with the link from a different forum. I only ask as I am surprised she felt she would gain any sympathy or support here.
 
Still unable to accept the truth, I see. Not doing herself any favours by putting her head over the parapet and spouting absolute denial. Nothing about missing her 'beloved' horses now, is there? No more beautiful stallion to dedicate her next book to, now the reality of his death is known, not the sad but dignified kindly end to his life that she portrayed in her last book. The golden geese have had to be put down by the RSPCA, the world has known, and she has been vilified by horse lovers for months on end. No more golden eggs to collect into the bank account.
Her horses were very close relatives of my old Arabian gelding who was gently and with great dignity, pts two years ago on 24/11/2010. He was glowing with health and attitude, in his best show rug, groomed to infinity, hooves shining and looking up to the North Downs, watching hounds working, and neighing with expectation, ears up, eyes shining.
He was pts because his arthritis was worsening and not going to be safely manageable in the forthcoming winter. He went very quietly, chewing a treat he did not finish .... I'd had him for years and adored him. He'd never earned me a penny, but he'd certainly cost a lot!

A great pity the Skippers couldn't be bothered to ask for help. It seems their selfishness, delusions and idleness got in the way of a dignified and timely end for their beautiful old horses.
 
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Well said Burmilla.

Sorry about your gelding you sound like you loved him very much, something we has caring animal owners do is to see that their every need is catered for and at the end of their lives the kindest thing we can do is have them pass away peacefully like yours did, not upto their eyeballs in ***** like that poor stallion suffered.

No excuses I'm afraid for this, no matter how much she protests she inflicted pain and neglect on her horses who probably everyday waited in anticiation of her coming to feed , love and care for them.

The only saving grace from this sorry mess is that they can no longer own horses which is a god send.
 
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