Less lameness with well bred horses

Hormonal Filly

Hormonal Filly

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Is it better to buy a horse who's dam/sire have had a good (non problematic) ridden career?

All the horses I've owned have been cheap and not been from proven ridden lines, mostly no family history (apart from current mare, ISH, pretty good confo, although no ridden lines apart from the TB in her) My papered Welsh D did have suspensory issues and all his ancestors were in-hand horses.

Does it make a difference? My old YO (a BD dressage judge) use to say it did..

A few friends have recently bought well bred youngsters.. spending a lot of money. I'd love something young, well bred, smart, but with all my horses history of breaking it makes me so nervous to spend several thousands.. all 4 I've owned haven't stayed sound/broken down before 10 and not been started until 4, or.. is it just luck?

Interesting to hear thoughts
 
If the well bred horse has ancestors who had good ridden careers without any significant lameness then you potentially start off with a better hand than buying a horse with unknown ancestry but it is still an absolute lottery as to whether they will stay sound or not.

A horse with good confirmation is at an advantage against one with conformational issues. I also think that how they are managed as foals/youngsters can have an impact on how robust they are in later life.

A cheap horse is often cheap for a reason.
 
When I bought my younger cob I wanted to know both parents had been in work. Feeling a bit bruised at the time by dealing with pssm with one and breathing / leg issues with the other - both likely to be genetic.

It's not a guarantee but I could breed a lovely foal from my Appy - who looks sound in the field - yet all her issues came to light when she was backed and it's 50:50 if they'd get passed to a foal.

Parents or siblings in decent work certainly helps mitigate the risk.
 
I don't think it's an exact science.

As others have said, you'll no doubt increase the chances of long-term soundness breeding from proven stock, but I had a seven year old crippled with navicular and OCD. He was by / out of 'Elite' and 'Premium' Trakehner Verband parents; both with lovely confo and proven under saddle.
 
I think to many people breed from a 'retired' mare when in reality you should be passing on the issue that caused the 'retirement' I think very few mares are retired from an active ridden/working life 100% sound to become a broodmare. Unless you know the person who retired that mare I don't suppose you can be 100% sure. Stallions are a little different as they can do both jobs (some not well, but they can) at the same time, but you still want something that has a decent working career either current or previous and still sound.

As IHW has said above if you can stack the cards in your favor you potentially have more of a chance of a long lasting useful horse. Obviously management etc come into play as well.
 
I think soundness and a long ridden career on both sides of the breeding probably help, but (aside from the potential for externally-caused injury) I was talking with a vet and apparently evidence is building that the gene for brilliant paces is very close to the gene for bony changes. If you breed for paces you'll likely also perpetuate the bony changes gene. Whether both genes are (a) inherited and (b) activated is something of a genetic lottery.

My 7yo PRE (who has fab paces for a Spanish) is currently a field ornament due to bony changes that look like they started at a very young age. His breeding is superb on both sides and his sire is in his teens and competing very successfully in children-on-horses classes. However I don't know what management his sire has to keep him going, nor do I know why he didn't stay on the pathway to GP...
 
It's a tricky one, because the best put together horse can step in a rabbit hole and end up with a career/life ending injury. I'd say having animals on both sides that have been shown to stand up to the kind of work you want to do is a good start, but you might not know if they've been medicated to keep them going.
I'd be wary of anything with extreme breeding (says the woman that bought a Welshie from showing lines!) as when one trait is selected for above all else it tends to have a bad impact on other things (see: dairy cows).
 
I'd caution as there are a lot of elite/premium bloodlines with known (but not public) issues out there; look at the prevalence of genetic diseases per breed type that exist now.
So yes, finding one where you know the parents and siblings have long-lasting, successful ridden careers is a great indicator, but good luck finding that. You need siblings on that list as sometimes two great horses don't combine well, and issues appear in the youngstock.
 
I think that you have to understand that injuries caused by accidents can happen to any horse well bred or not. they are one of the many risks of horse ownership.

The most important things to me when buying young stock are:

- good conformation - this gives you a fighting chance!

- movement not too extreme. I believe horses with correct but not extravagant movement last longer.

- how the horse has spent it's youngstock years. I look for horses that have lived predominantly outside in a mixed herd , in big undulating fields. I prefer mixed herds to youngstock herds as they learn herd manners from the older horses, and learn to stay out of trouble.

-That have not been pumped full of grain and have been allowed to grow slowly and naturally.

- not starting the horse before 4 and little if any schooling until 5. They need to build strength.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Is it better to buy a horse who's dam/sire have had a good (non problematic) ridden career?

All the horses I've owned have been cheap and not been from proven ridden lines, mostly no family history (apart from current mare, ISH, pretty good confo, although no ridden lines apart from the TB in her) My papered Welsh D did have suspensory issues and all his ancestors were in-hand horses.

Does it make a difference? My old YO (a BD dressage judge) use to say it did..

A few friends have recently bought well bred youngsters.. spending a lot of money. I'd love something young, well bred, smart, but with all my horses history of breaking it makes me so nervous to spend several thousands.. all 4 I've owned haven't stayed sound/broken down before 10 and not been started until 4, or.. is it just luck?

Interesting to hear thoughts
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My logic in buying amateur riding horses has been to buy aged about ten, assuming pass a full vetting. Want them to have had a decent working career and stayed sound. My logic is this is better than buying a young horse that hasnt done any siginificant work, and might not stand up to work. That said I think is still a lottery with horses being fragile.
 
First Frost said:
I think that you have to understand that injuries caused by accidents can happen to any horse well bred or not. they are one of the many risks of horse ownership.

The most important things to me when buying young stock are:

- good conformation - this gives you a fighting chance!

- movement not too extreme. I believe horses with correct but not extravagant movement last longer.

- how the horse has spent it's youngstock years. I look for horses that have lived predominantly outside in a mixed herd , in big undulating fields. I prefer mixed herds to youngstock herds as they learn herd manners from the older horses, and learn to stay out of trouble.

-That have not been pumped full of grain and have been allowed to grow slowly and naturally.

- not starting the horse before 4 and little if any schooling until 5. They need to build strength.
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Pretty much what I was about to say, definitely emphasis on the younger years, movement is so important.

I do think, especially in the showing world, a lot of the animals can walk in a straight line and trot back, but so many were never ridden or in work
 
My ex racer was and is sound. He raced as a 2, 3 and 4yr old then got rehomed as a teenagers horse till he was coming 7 when I bought him,still sound at 9 and living with a friend. I reckoned if he survived racing and a teenager then he was probably a good bet. Its what I would do again if I decide to get another.
 
When looking for TB mares to cross with our stallion, we looked at mares with good performance lines, good conformation, and who had been successful on the track with long careers. I found mares that had retired sound at 7yo, having won a decent amount on the track. It told me that they were physically tough and well built, as well as being mentally strong horses. They also had lovely, gentle natures who unwound from racing really well. Ticked all the boxes for us, really. The plan being to breed a solid all rounder/eventing type that (hopefully) was on the correct genetic path to have a long ridden career. We can control the upbringing, so it will be interesting to see how the offspring develop.
 
It is completely luck as far as I can see. I am a livery on a rehab yard most of their customers have very well bred top competition horses and also race horses coming for rehab due to injury or other issues. Things like keratomas as well as horses having kissing spine could be absolutely anything.

I am on my second NF both Bert and Homey come from very successful competition lines. Homey grandsire Applewitch Pure Magic and Bert grandsire Wayland Cramberry. Homey got kicked by another horse at when he was 10 and ended up with a broken splint bone. Then when he was 17 had a hind suspensory did a front suspensory at 19 when tripping out hacking. Treated for arthritis with arthramid when he was 20 and then PTS as his stomach stopped working properly.

Bert had a stifle issue then problems with his hooves which vet said was environmental due to a very wet winter which has been resolved by shoeing on his fronts and applying hoof hardner. Hopefully he will be ok during this winter. He has to have regular phyiso but vet and physio think his issues in part caused by growth spurts. He has just gone bum high again. There were some minor issues around hoof balance on his front hooves X rays but he had not seen a farrier for 12 weeks. This has now been resolved by regular farriery and vet said he also needed a saddle that fitted which has also been resolved. My vet vetted him and thinks he moves beautifully and really liked him. So will see.

I was not particularly looking for ponies from competition lines. Possibly the forest bred ponies are tougher.

I am not sure buying young makes a difference both my foresters I got as 5 year olds.
 
Good conformation is a start. I bought a nice inexpensive mare with good breeding form a stud. Her price was low because she had bench knees and not the best canter in the world although other than that she was well put together and nice looking. She passed a vetting but the reality is that she cannot stand schooling work in the manage without her left front suspensory starting to bother her and her poor canter was due to kissing spines that needed surgery so I only hack her now. My own vet is of the opinion that the lack of movement in her back should have been picked up on the vetting. The upshot is that I wouldn't again buy a horse that didn't have good basic conformation and paces. She's a lovely mare and always the yard favourite but she has been a bit of a money pit.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
I say cheap, at most I’ve spent £3k because they have unknown breeding and are unbroken.
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I spend at the most £1500, and buy youngsters, although I bought a just backed maxi cob for £1200. I like buying stuff that looks like a wonky donkey usually with a known sire and making the best of it. Perhaps I have just been lucky with them but all have had long working lives, no matter how wonky looking they were.
Horses with known breeding tend to cost a lot just to get a foal, and no one wants to throw out or let people know about an expensive dud, I have heard that some studs, well they never get past the foal stage or they end up with a generic passport at the sales, so the price of the breed papered animal is protected.
I went around one of our local studs and I honestly would have not wanted to buy a youngster from them, they had all the negatives I would look for when a buying my bargain buys.
Everyone is concerned about the fate of old brood mares, who have produced many expensive foals, but it also happens to stallions. Some are just as likely end up in the dealers/knackers field, covering coloured cobs.
 
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