Letting nature take its course?

[Kelpie]

I am sending one of mine for surgery next week so your story touches a big nerve in me.

I have tried rest with my mare and over 6 months later she has got worse, not better. So its surgery or PTS for me but I have already made the decision that if there are complications in the surgery or she colics badly then I won't fight any more - sometimes the greatest kindness is to let them go.

It is such an individual decision, though. A close friend of mine went through colic surgery and several complications with her horse and it got to a stage where I would have pts. However, 2 years on she has her horse back.

Whatever decision you make, its yours to make ...... But don't forget that as already highlighted above, too often vets think about whether they can, rather than whether they should

I have seen horses with broken legs yet ears pricked and bright faced. Horses hide their pain from us, but our hearts can't miss the fact it is there.

I so wish he comes through it for you but if you decide its time don't for one second cry for wondering whether he might have come right .... You will probably never know but what you will know is that he no longer suffers and that is enough. X

 

[TPO]

So sorry to read this; I was hoping for the best possible outcome for you both.

I'm in agreement with Gamebird. I lost 3 of my mares in relatively quick succession a few years ago and it was beyond devastating. There's nothing anyone can say to make it easier, it's horrible but there is a small comfort knowing that they'll never suffered a day.

I used to work in oncology and what those doctors considered a 'win' wouldn't be what most others would consider a win. Vets are scientists and it is understandable to want to see something rare through and throw everything at it.

At the end of the day the only person you owe anything to in all this is Buzz and I know his welfare and quality of life is your number one priority.

My thoughts are with you at this incredibly sad and difficult time x

 

[icestationzebra]

This is so so sad and I really feel for you. It's a terrible choice between giving him every chance, and knowing when the time is right to let him go. I agree with Gamebird when she says "better a week too soon than a day too late", but only you can make that decision. Big hugs at a difficult time X

 

[claracanter]

I didn't want to just read and run. Big hugs to you and Buzz

 

[angelish]

i couldn't read and run either ,iv'e quietly followed your posts and really hoped for a good outcome
i just don't know what else to say but this is a heartbreaking situation to be in and i really feel for you and wish you and buzz all the best of luck x

 

[vic07]

Massive hugs. Most difficult decision we ever have with horses. Xxx

 

[1life]

My thoughts are with you. I had a similar situation/decision just 2 weeks ago. When the pain couldn't be controlled it was decided enough was enough. It wasn't easy and no-one can make the choice for you...but you'll know whichever decision feels right. Hugs x

 

[Twiglet]

Thank you again all. All those who think it's time, I'm not dismissing it out of hand, and I really do appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Leg_end]

You know Buzz better than any of us on here and you will know when it's time. There is usually a subtle shift in behaviour that probably only you would notice, but it happens, and that is the moment to make a decision. Trust your gut - if you are thinking about it seriously then its time - and whoever said 'better a day too early than a day too late' is spot on.

You are both in my thoughts x

 

[armchair_rider]

You know Buzz better than any of us on here and you will know when it's time. There is usually a subtle shift in behaviour that probably only you would notice, but it happens, and that is the moment to make a decision. Trust your gut - if you are thinking about it seriously then its time - and whoever said 'better a day too early than a day too late' is spot on.

You are both in my thoughts x

I think this is very good advice. Bets of luck to your lovely brave horse and his brave caring owner.

 

[Mike007]

On old horseman gave me the following wisdom. The last kindness we can give a loyal friend is an end from pain.

 

[AmyMay]

I think there's only one outcome here, and the sooner the better.

Poor lad, and poor you.

 

[nikkimariet]

Nothing to add except big hugs, what an awful position to be in xxx

 

[meesha]

Thinking of u and buzz. Go with your gut, none of us know him or see him day to day. If you feel the next 5 days will be a turning point then u have to consider it as an option. Just be sure that you will feel comfortable leaving him in the field afterwards without the constant supervision he has been getting, if he is only checked once or twice a day are u going to panic every time it gets cold or rains? Xx

 

[Undecided]

Nothing constructive to add but I just wanted to say that I've just caught up with all your previous posts and just wanted to say how brave you are both being. If this were me I would be in absolute pieces. I can't even begin to imagine what you must be feeling inside and Buzz is incredibly lucky to have you as an owner and to be surrounded by so many people who care. Stories like this make every little thing I or anyone complain about seem so insignificant when you think about what you are going through. Big hugs to you both and know that whatever you decide, you have done, and continue to do the absolute best anyone could ever do <3

 

[amage]

First and foremost big hugs. I would usually agree with the vast majority of those saying it's time in this situation but in Buzz's case I disagree. From your description he sounds in good form & well in himself.


NB the next bit may be a bit upsetting to read...


I put down my mare in October....I knew her inside out & back to front and something in me just knew it was time in my heart of heart. She had just weaned her foal a week before and overnight changed. The change was nothing to do with weaning...she has never ever been bothered by the weaning process. She was flat, depressed, unhappy, and no longer had her "look at me" attitude. The morning I out her down I think she knew...i took her for a walk before the vet came down the road for her favourite activity...eating the last of the blackberries from the hedgerow. She bucked, farted, squealed, grew her self up to her full 17.2hh and screamed at the world to look at me. My OH asked me was I sure...I knew I was. Despite all her playfulness I just knew.There had been too many other niggly things that caused her more pain/unhappiness than they should have. As she fell after being shot she actually fell at quite an awkward angle (Dolly never could do anything in life in a simple straightforward manner so it was no surprise she was the same in death;-) ) Whatever way her head twisted as she fell her neck was at a funny angle and suddenly the vet noticed something. She had a tumour....quite large but somehow not visible or possible to be felt when she was standing upright normally. And straight away I had instant comfort that I had made the right choice. The vet conducted a small investigation...the tumour she had was large and would have rapidly impinged on her airway. It was very aggressive....I had suspected something a wee bit amiss with her in August but despite going over her with a fine tooth comb we hadnt found any trace of anything. She had told me she was done with this world and in her own special (awkward) manner also confirmed in death that I wasn't imagining it. I miss her more than I can say but I take so so much comfort in that knowledge.



In a very roundabout way I suppose I am trying to say if I thought she had fight in her then I would have been her army going into battle...but she said no. Don't ask yourself is it time...ask does Buzz want an army? The pain discussion is an interesting one...no animal (or indeed human) can recover from major illness 100% pain free for the whole recovery. If it was considered unethical for any species to have recovery with some pain involved then we would never conduct surgery. The poster who suggested the Arc Equine is onto something...I would def ask vets about that. I have also used IceVibe boots on a horses head...long story but pain & swelling after head whack...no fracture so we tried them to see could we relive some pain. They were fab to get swelling out. The fact that he is untying himself/being mischievous would suggest to me that he's not at the end yet. Where there is life there is hope...in this quote i always take life to mean liveliness rather than breathing/going through the motions. I really hope for the very best for you and Buzz...if you can get to the stage where you can turn him out then brilliant. Perhaps bring him out to the field on a lunge line and see what he does...graze/try to ****** off/stand looking at you saying I want in?!? You know your horse, you have been his rock all the way through this. It is ok to say the time is now but equally it is just as ok to say you know what he's fighting so let's fight a bit more.

You & Buzz are in my thoughts.

 

[cundlegreen]

My sympathies are with you too. I had my old mare - horse of a lifetime- come up lame for the second time with a DDFT injury. I worried that I was considering putting her down for selfish reasons, but after giving her 6 weeks enclosed rest, she still wasn't right and had no quality of life. The day I made the decision and saw it carried out, I felt a huge relief that I had done the right thing. Give Buzz the chance with the muscle relaxant, but do be ready for the signs that he's not happy. He has already had so much invasive work done on him, he must be incredibly strong physically to go through all of it. Re the Arc Equine. I have one, and have had good results with it. BUT.... it is supposed to aid cell regrowth, and I would be very careful, and seek advice as to whether it might reactivate the cancer. Very best wishes.

 

[TarrSteps]

To everyone suggesting the Arc Equine, please read up on the contraindications.

For all the press, supporters of the technology do NOT promote it as a 'no risk, cures everything' option. To suggest it without understanding that is irresponsible.

 

[glamourpuss]

My heart goes out to you. You've tried, you really have. The love you have for Buzz is so apparent in all your posts.

If he was my horse I know what I'd be considering now. Hugs to you x

 

[amage]

To everyone suggesting the Arc Equine, please read up on the contraindications.

For all the press, supporters of the technology do NOT promote it as a 'no risk, cures everything' option. To suggest it without understanding that is irresponsible.

Apologies if that was the impression I gave it certainly was not what I meant I just feel it is something worth discussing with the vet team...or indeed Arc themselves. It could be a flat out no but still worth inquiring

 

[Tiffany]

So sorry you find yourself in this position, you must be really worried.
All I can say is go with your heart, you know him well which means you'll know if and when it's time to let go. Hugs for you and Buzz

 

[Jnhuk]

Hugs whatever you decide but I do hope Dr Green works his magic for your lad.

 

[Tnavas]

I think it is time to reward your dear friend with the kindest thing we can do for our animals and that is to put him to sleep.

The quality of his life has gone and being in constant pain is debilitating.

It is so hard to make the decision I know, but it's what we owe them for the years of love and trust they have honoured us with

(((((HUGS)))))

 

[Twiglet]

Thinking of u and buzz. Go with your gut, none of us know him or see him day to day. If you feel the next 5 days will be a turning point then u have to consider it as an option. Just be sure that you will feel comfortable leaving him in the field afterwards without the constant supervision he has been getting, if he is only checked once or twice a day are u going to panic every time it gets cold or rains? Xx

I have been thinking of that....perhaps friend's field won't be the ideal place. Am going to do some research on local 'full grass' livery places, with owners on site who are available to check frequently and I could get there more easily.
Before the illness I'd have easily chucked him out 24 hours, he's very much an Irish horse in that sense and would live out happily. When he was undergoing radiotherapy he was out all day every day at the vet school, even through the foul wet weather. I think he'd quite enjoy being sent back there for a few weeks to be honest, but I can't stand the journey!

 

[Twiglet]

You know Buzz better than any of us on here and you will know when it's time. There is usually a subtle shift in behaviour that probably only you would notice, but it happens, and that is the moment to make a decision. Trust your gut - if you are thinking about it seriously then its time - and whoever said 'better a day too early than a day too late' is spot on.

You are both in my thoughts x

Thank you.
It's very much a question of seeing how he's living day to day and whether he's doing the things that make him Buzz.
Post sedation yesterday, he got his head into the tack room next to his stable, and go on the hunt for hob nobs...it's ridiculous things like that that make me think he's just not ready to stop.

This was him on Sunday when he saw his Hackney fieldmate being driven for the first time - it was very much "what the **** is Sid doing, and why does he have WHEELS attached to him??"

 

[Sandstone1]

Hes looking good considering what hes been through. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Twiglet]

Is he only just starting the methocarbonal treatment? I would definately give that the 5 days to see what effects it has.
& sounds corny but would an Arc Equine machine help? Could someone lend you one?

What about a decent osteopath ? My Osteo does plenty of work on relieving jaws & making the jaw more mobile, I will Pm you his details.

& if the grass is really lush and long in this field, I would definately try it. Constant grazing really would go someway to relieving that spasm. Muscles can't work again unless they're forced into use& exercised.
Silly analogy but I would perhaps compare this to the story of the guy who was paralysed in an accident, doctors told him there was nothing he could do& he'd never walk again, after 5 years in a wheelchair, one day he met this yoga instructor who started doing gentle exercises with him & some months later he was walking and running! So you can make the body do amazing things, if pushed in the right direction.

That's interesting re: the jaw mobility, and the main reason I'd want to turn him away. He's an absolute chronic windsucker, which doesn't help the jaw at all - if he's out and has access to constant grazing, and being in a natural position (ie. eating constantly from the floor, and without the door to windsuck on - I'm aware he can do it in the field, but he does it very rarely when he's turned out now, and didn't at all while on lush grass at the vets), I think it's going to give the jaw a better chance.

Have asked the vet about osteo - the bone is weak so would have to be careful, but it could be worth a chance. If you know of anyone please do PM me details.

 

[cptrayes]

Twiglet I usually err on the side of putting a horse in pain down, as you may be aware. So I am hoping that putting in my two penny worth now may be of help. Buzz looks too well to put him to sleep because he can't eat. Whatever you are doing to get calories into him, you are doing a marvellous job.

If the pain can be controlled, 'enough', and the vets are reasonably sure that the cancer will be gone, and he can nibble grass ok, then I would certainly give him the summer in a field under constant supervision if he was mine.

 

[Booboos]

I am really sorry you are going through this. It has all happened too quickly!

There is no right or wrong answer here. Because you are asking for opinions to me he looks a (very) good weight, active and energetic so as long as you can get over the current issue with the jaw affecting his ability to eat I would continue. Rusky looked a much, much sorrier sight in September and I was desperate to PTS (but could not because we had no diagnosis and a second affected horse!) and then we found and treated the third problem, he has put on a lot of weight over winter and oddly he has even put on muscle (which was supposed to be impossible due to the second problem), so now he looks super for a retired horse and I am even tempted to bring him back to work and see what happens.

Fundamentally this is a welfare issue and I think only you will know when he's had enough.

 

[EstherYoung]

There is no right or wrong answer here....
Fundamentally this is a welfare issue and I think only you will know when he's had enough.

This.

And hugs.