Life and horse trailers.....kicking around options

I have never heard of the phrase useless as a marzipan dildo...but now I have. And it made my shitty afternoon so much better.

I would do towbar and a trailer. You can pick up an older ifor 505 for not much money.
 
I would get a tow bar on the yeti and buy a suitable second hand trailer .
You can part with trailer in the future without much loss.
I think the freedom it will give you to enjoy Hermosa will make all the hassle of sorting it out worth while .
My Mum spent the war at Aberfoyle and used to take us there when we where children.
Just go for it hacking there will be glorious.
 
I borrowed it from 'The Thick of It.'

A 505 is 907kg and a 511 is 1000kg. Horse is 450. Both those put you at or near the kerbweight of the car, but under the recommended tow weight. We wouldn't be travelling with tons of other supplies for some time. But this is where I am getting hung up.

Not wild about the 401/403 because I think the horse would prefer a bigger, inviting space to walk into. I'd replace the divider with a full length breast bar, as someone suggested earlier in the thread.
 
Have you seen a 401/403? A livery at my yard has a single Ifor trailer (sorry, not sure which model) and it has a surprisingly roomy space inside - probably larger than half of the 505. It's possible that this looks more inviting from a horse perspective than the normal half trailer width that they have to go into.
 
Abacus said:
Have you seen a 401/403? A livery at my yard has a single Ifor trailer (sorry, not sure which model) and it has a surprisingly roomy space inside - probably larger than half of the 505.
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They're hugely wider than half a double - and because they're not on an angle if you keep the front ramp down when loading (breast bar up obviously) then the horse can see all the way through as they set off up the rear ramp. I like that. Because they've got that extra width my horse likes to travel wedged diagonally across the trailer with his bum in one back corner and his front legs in the opposite front corner, he seems very comfortable that way.

Obviously nothing works for all horses but it is definitely worth having a good look at one before writing off the idea.
 
Dave has never been great to load, but the 401 is very wide & inviting.
This is the first day he saw it. I expected him to have a sniff & we'd leave it at that. I walked on to grab my tub of treats & he followed me straight on. Had to get it on video as proof.

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Caol Ila said:
I borrowed it from 'The Thick of It.'

A 505 is 907kg and a 511 is 1000kg. Horse is 450. Both those put you at or near the kerbweight of the car, but under the recommended tow weight. We wouldn't be travelling with tons of other supplies for some time. But this is where I am getting hung up.

Not wild about the 401/403 because I think the horse would prefer a bigger, inviting space to walk into. I'd replace the divider with a full length breast bar, as someone suggested earlier in the thread.
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I say again, much too close for comfort with yeti. The 511 really is a bigger beast altogether - think more wind resistance, momentum, heavier and impossible to move by hand if you need to wiggle it. I would only hitch it with a bigger LWB 4x4.
You might be ok with the Yeti, it can certainly pull it, I've done it but I didn't enjoy it at all.
Dont dismiss the single trailer they really are great and more spacious, all horses have travelled better in mine than any other trailer. It would give you 300kg less than the kerbweight when fully loaded.
 
Fautras: 680kg plus Horse: 450kg
Total: 1130kg

Rice continental (rare but old so can be very inexpensive): 750kg + Horse 450kg = 1200kg

I have had both. The Rice towed ok but it’s a grand just in wood when it eventually needs a new floor! Did the job.

The Fautras has a fibreglass floor, no ramps to rot. Different braking system (not so great to reverse uphill but otherwise ok) and felt much more stable on motorways.

Or get an inexpensive 3.5T?
 
There is a 511 at my yard. And not a lot of trailers for sale locally. And I can't face driving hundreds of miles to look at a trailer.

My first priority will be getting horse on the trailer. Then getting horse to be happy being on the trailer. Then driving the damned thing 1k into Mugdock Park. Then we might go to some trails 10-20 miles away. I would not be towing on the motorway for some time, and by then, we will have a truck, since that is in the cards, just not right now.

An inexpensive 3.5t will definitely be manual. No. chance.

The downside of the single horse trailer is that I will have to go through the faff of selling it and buying a two horse one eventually. And there aren't many 401s/403s for sale. I have looked.

Wish Fautras were more plentiful here. The only ones I can find for sale are the same weight as the 511, if not more.
 
Caol Ila said:
There is a 511 at my yard. And not a lot of trailers for sale locally. And I can't face driving hundreds of miles to look at a trailer.

My first priority will be getting horse on the trailer. Then getting horse to be happy being on the trailer. Then driving the damned thing 1k into Mugdock Park. Then we might go to some trails 10-20 miles away. I would not be towing on the motorway for some time, and by then, we will have a truck, since that is in the cards, just not right now.

An inexpensive 3.5t will definitely be manual. No. chance.

The downside of the single horse trailer is that I will have to go through the faff of selling it and buying a two horse one eventually. And there aren't many 401s/403s for sale. I have looked.

Wish Fautras were more plentiful here. The only ones I can find for sale are the same weight as the 511, if not more.
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By sounds of things, you’re going to be re visiting / selling / changing/whatever combo of transport anyway, so that’s not a deal breaker.
A single, or mare & Foal, trailer is always more roomy than one with individual partitions, it’s usually possible to tack one’s horse up inside, no bother. Personally, I prefer full size double trailer with full width breast / breeching bars and cross ties for a single horse, but you don’t need that, and your vehicle would be far safer towing a single.
Any 3.5 - be very careful with your choice of design, there have been some dreadful horse casualties and fatalities, including seasoned travellers.
Anyone commenting on the difference between legit weight and on-the-road experience of what is actually necessary - 100% right - keep your safety margins as wide as possible, never mind what the manufacturers would like customers to buy into.
If you have to run the LEZ a few times, well, accept that cost until fully convinced of what newer vehicle is going to suit you best (Infuriating and expensive, I’ve been caught out in a Defender when a road detour forced us into ‘the zone’, but sounds like you’ll be doing infrequent trips initially). Just get yourselves used to enjoying some trips out and about, meanwhile.
Definitely agree that sticky loading wants ironing out and practising, but don’t assume that a cooperative traveller will necessarily remain so in throes of pain and a veterinary emergency, and do remember that in any genuine emergency - you will load that horse up, notwithstanding.
Spring’s here, wishing you some pleasant adventures!
(Surely the marzipan would have still been edible had you not used it, tho? Some [im]moral in here, somewhere)
 
How about trailer hire (Ifor) to get her loading solidly and then you can borrow one in an emergency? That would be the most inexpensive route right now.
 
I sometimes need to go into the LEZ once per week, and OH has to go that way to get to work occasionally. And it's £60 for a non-compliant vehicle, and that doubles if you do it again. So yeah, two non-compliant vehicles is not an option.
 
alibali said:
There is a big difference between what a vehicle is rated to pull and what it can safely pull.

The Caravan Club advice is that you inexperienced towers should never tow more than 85% their vehicles kerb weight, experienced preferably less than 90% and never more than 100%. This is due to the increasing risk of the trailer snaking and causing the vehicle to lose control. Also known as the tail wagging the dog. Personally I would never drive a car/trailer combo where trailer exceeded 85% kerb weight of car due to 1) relative instability of the load, horses can and do move and lean their weight during travel and this does affect handling 2) preciousness of cargo. I am a very experienced driver and tower with many, many advanced driving and towing courses under my belt. I am not arrogant enough to believe I can out skill basic physics!

A vehicle rated towing capacity relates to what it can pull without damage to the vehicle, not what it can safely pull in real world conditions!

OP Google suggests your Yeti kerb weight is 1420-1560kg depending on trim level. Your vehicle handbook should tell you exactly. Depending on the weight of your horse with a light weight trailer it may well be careful to keep within 85% of this. I have happily and safely towed single horses behind Mondeo estates and similar before, but check your weights carefully. You should be aiming to stay under 1200-1300kg laden trailer weight. Pack heavy loads like water etc in your car preferably in front of the rear wheels (tow bar weight is also relevant but this post is already very long)

As someone who has experienced a full on trailer snaking after being caught by an unexpected gust of wind from just the wrong angle it's not something I ever want to experience again. It took me a both carriageways and the hard shoulder to ride it out until I was able to catch it and I was fortunate it had occurred during a break in heavy traffic. The combination was appropriately weighted, my speed was moderate, it wasn't particularly windy, turned a corner to a very exposed bit of road just at the wrong moment. It was very unlucky. Because I knew what to do and had the space to ride it out the trailer did not jack knife the car and overturn but I also accept I was as lucky with that as I was unlucky with the conditions that caused it. Thankfully horses were uninjured after their brief trip on the waltzers.

Edited to correct some funky spacing in the post and clarify the difference between a vehicles rated towing weight and what it can safely pull in the real world.
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Caravans are different. They also say that you can tow 100% of the rated weight if you are an experienced at towing.

Ive happily towed 1900kgs in my kornado with has a tow limit of 2000kgs. Its fine. Handled motorways and people flying past, hills, muddy fields etc. Ive also towed with a Discovery. That would have towed my house behind it. There was no real difference between the two. The disco is heavier, but not massively, and Id happily have towed 3.5ton with that.
 
I'm Dun said:
Caravans are different. They also say that you can tow 100% of the rated weight if you are an experienced at towing.

Ive happily towed 1900kgs in my kornado with has a tow limit of 2000kgs. Its fine. Handled motorways and people flying past, hills, muddy fields etc. Ive also towed with a Discovery. That would have towed my house behind it. There was no real difference between the two. The disco is heavier, but not massively, and Id happily have towed 3.5ton with that.
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Yes you're right caravans are different. Their loads are normally more stable as usually contained within cupboards etc. Also generally more weight lower down near floor level rather than the higher up loading of a horse leaning it's bodyweight against outer walls which also helps make them more stable weight for weight than horse trailers. All of which makes them safer to tow than the more unstable load of a horse. This is why I wouldn't tow a trailer which was more than 85% of vehicle kerb weight. To ensure a suitable margin for error and account for the less stable load and the fact I'd be much more upset turning a horse trailer over and injuring my horse than a caravan, though of course the risk to other road users remains the same whatever you roll.

Even sticking to these guidelines and as a well qualified and experienced driver I have had a very close shave when a number of unexpected factors occurred together with unfortunate timing. I have no doubt the outcome would have been very different that day had the trailer been heavier in proportion to the vehicle. As it was a heavy old style Range Rover was thrown about over 3 lanes like a toy.

Legally cars can tow up to their maximum rated capacity, safely is another matter and one for the conscience.
 
Caol Ila said:
There is a 511 at my yard. And not a lot of trailers for sale locally. And I can't face driving hundreds of miles to look at a trailer.

My first priority will be getting horse on the trailer. Then getting horse to be happy being on the trailer. Then driving the damned thing 1k into Mugdock Park. Then we might go to some trails 10-20 miles away. I would not be towing on the motorway for some time, and by then, we will have a truck, since that is in the cards, just not right now.

An inexpensive 3.5t will definitely be manual. No. chance.

The downside of the single horse trailer is that I will have to go through the faff of selling it and buying a two horse one eventually. And there aren't many 401s/403s for sale. I have looked.

Wish Fautras were more plentiful here. The only ones I can find for sale are the same weight as the 511, if not more.
Click to expand...

2 up on a 511 would be pretty unadvisable with a Yeti.

If you can’t find a decent single locally, then one up in a 505/equivalent is about as far as I’d want to push it. You can remove partition which should make it much more inviting
 
ihatework said:
2 up on a 511 would be pretty unadvisable with a Yeti.

If you can’t find a decent single locally, then one up in a 505/equivalent is about as far as I’d want to push it. You can remove partition which should make it much more inviting
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I would not tow two in the Yeti in any trailer.

If a 403 appears locally, I’d get that. I’m not getting my hopes up.
 
The other spanner in the works is that the government is going to start taxing EV owners by mileage, which gives OH less incentive to keep the Outlander PHEV. Only learned this recently. There is no point in paying 4-500 quid to put a tow bar on the Yeti if he is changing his vehicle in the next year. We just don't know yet.

Government is f******ing out of its mind, having incentivised people to buy EVs and hybrids with super cheap road tax and a warm and fuzzy feeling of saving the planet, and now that too many people have acquired those vehicies, they're going, "Now, wait a minute...." But that's a discussion for a different thread.

We also continued to be baffled by kerbweights. A Nissan Navarra and a Mitsubishi L200 apparently have a circa 2100 kerbweight, but a 3500 towing capacity. I think most people would tow whatever with those trucks, so long as it was under 3500. If I said I had an L200 and wanted to tow two horses in a 511, would anyone tell me it was a naff idea?

Hilux kerbweight is between 2000 and 2300, depending on model (doing some lazy rounding). So as per the 85% of kerbweight rule, there is no vehicle in the UK that can tow a great deal.
 
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Caol Ila said:
The other spanner in the works is that the government is going to start taxing EV owners by mileage, which gives OH less incentive to keep the Outlander PHEV. Only learned this recently. There is no point in paying 4-500 quid to put a tow bar on the Yeti if he is changing his vehicle in the next year. We just don't know yet.

Government is f******ing out of its mind, having incentivised people to buy EVs and hybrids with super cheap road tax and a warm and fuzzy feeling of saving the planet, and now that too many people have acquired those vehicies, they're going, "Now, wait a minute...." But that's a discussion for a different thread.

We also continued to be baffled by kerbweights. A Nissan Navarra and a Mitsubishi L200 apparently have a circa 2100 kerbweight, but a 3500 towing capacity. I think most people would tow whatever with those trucks, so long as it was under 3500. If I said I had an L200 and wanted to tow two horses in a 511, would anyone tell me it was a naff idea?

Hilux kerbweight is between 2000 and 2300, depending on model (doing some lazy rounding). So as per the 85% of kerbweight rule, there is no vehicle in the UK that can tow a great deal.
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Equine Law Blog May 2015: The Myths of Towing Horse Trailers

If you are an avid follower of online equine forums you may well have heard about the 85% towing rule which states that the weight of the trailer and its ca ...
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Ie load of tosh!
 
Stirling had some parked up when i went by couple weeks ago.
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The tow weights on the bigger 4x4 LWB are not as important because you have a heavy rear axle, heavy large engine over 2l, transmission and drivetrain low to the ground, double the traction and a larger footprint on the road thereby giving more stability and stopping power.
The 85% is only a guide. In practice to stop 1.5t tons sharply at 50mph you need at least 2 ton at the front end.
Most big engined 4x4 will be up to it tow 3.5 tones safely - older sorrento, landcruiser, discovery, shogun, newer isuzu dmax, bmw 5, Audi q7/q8, touareg, g wagon , rexton, Volvo xc90 or 60, Kia EV9, Kodiaq.
 
Caol Ila said:
The other spanner in the works is that the government is going to start taxing EV owners by mileage, which gives OH less incentive to keep the Outlander PHEV. Only learned this recently. There is no point in paying 4-500 quid to put a tow bar on the Yeti if he is changing his vehicle in the next year. We just don't know yet.

Government is f******ing out of its mind, having incentivised people to buy EVs and hybrids with super cheap road tax and a warm and fuzzy feeling of saving the planet, and now that too many people have acquired those vehicies, they're going, "Now, wait a minute...." But that's a discussion for a different thread.

We also continued to be baffled by kerbweights. A Nissan Navarra and a Mitsubishi L200 apparently have a circa 2100 kerbweight, but a 3500 towing capacity. I think most people would tow whatever with those trucks, so long as it was under 3500. If I said I had an L200 and wanted to tow two horses in a 511, would anyone tell me it was a naff idea?

Hilux kerbweight is between 2000 and 2300, depending on model (doing some lazy rounding). So as per the 85% of kerbweight rule, there is no vehicle in the UK that can tow a great deal.
Click to expand...
Will the Outlander not cope pulling your mare in a single trailer? Seems bizarre it couldn’t, and EV drivers I know are always more concerned about range of miles when towing their horses.
But if likely to change the vehicle which would alter your range of trailer choices, and since you’re less keen to buy a single, may as well wait.
 
Yes, the Outlander could tow the single. Tow weight is 1500 and kerb weight is like 1800.

OH currently intrigued by the suggestion above of a Kodiaq. We do like our Skoda.
 
angel7 said:
Stirling had some parked up when i went by couple weeks ago.
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The tow weights on the bigger 4x4 LWB are not as important because you have a heavy rear axle, heavy large engine over 2l, transmission and drivetrain low to the ground, double the traction and a larger footprint on the road thereby giving more stability and stopping power.
The 85% is only a guide. In practice to stop 1.5t tons sharply at 50mph you need at least 2 ton at the front end.
Most big engined 4x4 will be up to it tow 3.5 tones safely - older sorrento, landcruiser, discovery, shogun, newer isuzu dmax, bmw 5, Audi q7/q8, touareg, g wagon , rexton, Volvo xc90 or 60, Kia EV9, Kodiaq.
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Are you the new Rog?

Not sure he had the appreciation he deserved in his day!
 
If the weight of the trailer with horse and everything loaded is less than the towing capacity of the car, I'll happily tow with it. I do about 1000 miles per year towing. Caveat is I do live in East Anglia and the hilliest area I've towed in is Yorkshire. Other people do differently.
I'd tow a 511 with one horse with the yeti, I tow an Equitrek showtreka M with 1 horse with my Freelander which has a max tow weight of 2200kg
 
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Just to reiterate that the OP is very wise to enquire as to what will safely tow the load she requires. Not all tow cars are equal no matter what the theoretical tow limit on them is, though her Yeti ought to be a good ‘un.

What can happen when it goes wrong and the tail wags the dog. Incredibly, neither the farmer driving the 4x4 nor the cattle in the trailer were seriously injured. This was last year on a dual carriageway not far from here. The combination stated to snake and then went over.

Incidentally, another shout out for the sturdy build of Ifor trailers - the cattle were contained in the trailer.

Never be complacent when towing.

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Back in like 2002 or thereabouts, I had a couple friends towing two horses with a Ford Explorer (a mid-size American SUV a bit bigger than a Kuga but not by a lot) who jack-knifed and flipped over on I-91. I have no idea what that car was weighted to tow at, but I'd bet a million pounds that two 16hh horses + one of those big steel American trailers with a tackroom was well over its kerbweight. Both horses and people walked out unscathed...still.

Hence the waffle. I know Ifors and other European trailers are quite different, but physics isn't.
 
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