Likely outcome? Planning issue?

W

Wednesday2024

New User
Joined
4 December 2024
Messages
3
Visit site
What are people’s experiences please of building a sand school without planning permission and councils action?

Was retrospective granted? Were you told to remove it?

( ETA I am not the one constructing the arena)
 
It does depend on the surrounding area (is it in open countryside or in the middle of farm buildings) but I would think if someone objects it’s one the enforcement officers would be quite happy to go to town.

It would be very difficult to construct a good narrative of ‘essential need’ around it. But if it’s a farmer doing it, they do have more planning freedom than others so may well have got their story already well rehearsed.
 
Is it for private use only?
Commercial use you will be charged a lot for rates. My friend has a livery yard no school as says her rates will increase dramatically. So they can't just put one down as they get inspected/checked up on. Also lighting can be a problem.

Another friend put up temporary stables on skids and was told to take them down. A neighbour objected and said they could see them from their window.
 
Don’t want to go into detail but private use (that we know of) in rural area. Was a working farm recently sold as a residential property. Groundwork’s have been so extensive to make level it now overlooks the only neighbouring property (our home). It is also huge at around 60x35m.
 
If the arena is built without PP and the planners refuse retrospective PP then the arena may subsequently have to be moved (tricky) or removed altogether.

This for a proper arena with foundations, not for a layer of sand on grass which it can be argued is a temporary structure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPO
It's a gamble with a lot of money.

Companies, with limited liability are more likely to do it than individuals as you run the risk of a criminal conviction.

I wouldn't have that much spare cash to risk it, everyone I know with a school has sought planning permission in advance.
 
My livery yard did this. Never crossed their mind to apply for PP to change one of their fields into an arena. Nosey neighbours shopped them though so they applied for PP retrospectively and it was granted without issue. It must very much depend on your local council and where the arena is sited etc though.
 
Most councils will give advice on whether pp is required. Might be worth your friend sending an email with details to them via the council website.
For me I’d be happier if I had something in writing saying no you don’t need pp, than verbal.

If they are planning floodlights on the arena, again that can raise issues, especially if in a dark skies area, or would be near to people’s homes/gardens.

As others have said, it’ll cost a lot more to remove something already laid than just spending a bit of time and maybe some money to get the correct permission.
 
Wednesday2024 said:
Don’t want to go into detail but private use (that we know of) in rural area. Was a working farm recently sold as a residential property. Groundwork’s have been so extensive to make level it now overlooks the only neighbouring property (our home). It is also huge at around 60x35m.
Click to expand...
Just to play devil's advocate, presumably horses aren't going to be ridden in there 24/7. And it's always a joy to see them working.
 
Wednesday2024 said:
Don’t want to go into detail but private use (that we know of) in rural area. Was a working farm recently sold as a residential property. Groundwork’s have been so extensive to make level it now overlooks the only neighbouring property (our home). It is also huge at around 60x35m.
Click to expand...
Check the council planning portal for any permissions that may have been granted for this renovation as well. They may have snuck something in under that.
Also, the council may have restricted use with any permissions given that the land can only be for private use and not for any equine business.
 
I have an extremely low tolerance level for those who try to circumvent the planning laws by just building their structures anyway without PP. Partly from my time on the Parish council as it came up a lot, mostly from those with plenty of ££££s and self entitlement who couldn't be bothered to follow the rules.

I jumped through all the necessary planning hoops to get my stables and arena approved. Despite my yard only ever having been intended for private use, my PP is still strictly private use only, no shows, gymkhanas or arena lighting, and those are very common restrictions.

The planners were very particular about the siting of it all.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I have an extremely low tolerance level for those who try to circumvent the planning laws by just building their structures anyway without PP. Partly from my time on the Parish council as it came up a lot, mostly from those with plenty of ££££s and self entitlement who couldn't be bothered to follow the rules.

I jumped through all the necessary planning hoops to get my stables and arena approved. Despite my yard only ever having been intended for private use, my PP is still strictly private use only, no shows, gymkhanas or arena lighting, and those are very common restrictions.

The planners were very particular about the siting of it all.
Click to expand...
We weren’t even allowed our 2 stables to face away from the prevailing wind direction 🙄 though it did take a few years for the roof to blow off.
 
Amymay Again said:
Just to play devil's advocate, presumably horses aren't going to be ridden in there 24/7. And it's always a joy to see them working.
Click to expand...

It's only a joy to see horses working if you find it a joy to see horses working.

I would hate to have to watch horses being bullied by the sort of piss-poor rider you see at some amateur dressage / showjumping these days. Even if you do like seeing horses working, it's no excuse for not getting planning - and all the work that entails. Archaeological and ecological surveys happen for a reason.

And, in principle, I object to some people's belief that the rules don't apply to them.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I have an extremely low tolerance level for those who try to circumvent the planning laws by just building their structures anyway without PP. Partly from my time on the Parish council as it came up a lot, mostly from those with plenty of ££££s and self entitlement who couldn't be bothered to follow the rules.

I jumped through all the necessary planning hoops to get my stables and arena approved. Despite my yard only ever having been intended for private use, my PP is still strictly private use only, no shows, gymkhanas or arena lighting, and those are very common restrictions.

The planners were very particular about the siting of it all.
Click to expand...

Nail on the head!
 
Is there a more suitable place on site where it could be built and not intrude on your privacy? If so is it worth trying to be a nice neighbour before rocking the boat?
 
I built a sand school without permission. Stupid but there were extenuating circumstances. Planning only found out as my neighbours Grade 2 Listed property was undergoing renovation and the planning office was up and down the drive 2-3 times a week!
I got a very polite note asking me to contact the planning department. I applied retrospectively and was refused. Engaged a very feisty planning consultant and was approved on appeal with a very minor amendment to landscaping round the school, one man/one day on a digger all fixed.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I have an extremely low tolerance level for those who try to circumvent the planning laws by just building their structures anyway without PP. Partly from my time on the Parish council as it came up a lot, mostly from those with plenty of ££££s and self entitlement who couldn't be bothered to follow the rules.

I jumped through all the necessary planning hoops to get my stables and arena approved. Despite my yard only ever having been intended for private use, my PP is still strictly private use only, no shows, gymkhanas or arena lighting, and those are very common restrictions.

The planners were very particular about the siting of it all
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree in principle- we are trying to do things the right way but our council have now had our (massive) planning fees and 3 time extensions for our planning that was put in forever ago…and still no decision i totally understand why people want to go ahead without planning whhen the system is so broken… it is losing us £1000s of pounds just because they can’t get their act together and we will do the right thing… where there s a massive yard down the road with no planning and a big n international centre near us that has hardly any for much of their site…I often think who is the stupid ones…
 
Planners (like most gov services) are hugely under resourced.

In our village the local farmer has built "shepherds accommodation" under weird rules - that is 5 ensuite double bedrooms !! (a separate story) That is fine he can do that - but he has built it in the wrong place vs. the plans he submitted - much nearer the boundary and no space to put trees in that were in the plans.

The council have been out - agreed it's at the wrong angle and far too near the boundary so the visual screening in the application can't be done

Then said they will put it on their list and he should get a letter in a couple of years time if they have resource then !!

OP I would speak to neighbours about specifics of your concerns - lights shining in your windows at night or noise or whatever it is that you want to be avoided, to see if an amicable solution is possible.

Technically it is a definite no - but getting the council to do anything about it might be very time consuming (and they may just grant retrospective planning anyway)
Falling out badly with a neighbour isn't fun.
 
Planning is an absolute nightmare.
We have always gone down the legal route but it is expensive and very time consuming.
On various properties we have built a small barn took 2 years to get permission and the planners danced it all over the fields before agreeing on where it could . ( The company dealt with the planning)
A outdoor school. took 4 years and 5 appeals finally got it again moved it all over the fields before they agreed a site and then lots of rules as to type and colour of surface type and colour of retaining fences and of course NO lights and strictly private use.
At a different property a replacement barn took 1 year and cost over £1000 in fees plus survey ( bats water drainage etc) it was replacing an existing barn which was untidy and tumbling down exactly the same floor area same height and a lot more attractive than what it was replacing but still full planning required with all the aggregations that bought.
It's costly and time-consuming to do it right and frustrating when people just go ahead and get away with it.
I would try and negotiate with them as neighbour disputes can ruin your quality of life and will need to be declared if you ever sell up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top