Lionel Dunning - H&H letter - is he right ?

[BBH]

I think the answer to that is it depends what your goal is.
If your living is determined by producing young horses, and you need to get them out earning ££'s as soon as possible, then you do rush them for a quicker return. You sell one and your on to the next. You get a better price with winnings under their belt. I do think producers need to be aware though that a young horse that has done too much is not attractive to a buyer because there is a feeling it will become sour and breakdown by the time its seven. I remember a brightwells auction show casing the most beautiful four year old and in it came doing grand prix movements but everyone around was horrified not impressed.

To be fair his letter talks about top future horses and in that vein I would agree with him. It would be interesting to know how many horses never made the big time because they weren't sympathetically produced in their younger years. Horses mature at different rates and it takes time and patience to produce the goods. You would also have to find owners not demanding immediate results and return on their investment.


What does everyone else think ?

 

[Gamebird]

I'm not sure but I susp[ect he may be.

I've just read an ancient copy of Anne Moore's autobiography. She was jumping ponies in the 60s when the change was made from three rounds, none timed, and pretty much a treble clear needed to win over fences that could reach 5'.

The change was then made to jumping two rounds, with the second against the clock (as most horse/pony classes are run in the UK now) and she said the trend was towards smaller tracks and ponies that weren't as good technical jumpers but could motorbike round corners and turn in and jump from nothing, but didn't have the sheer scope and clean technique of the previous generation of ponies.

This is similar to what we ask of our young horses today and I think inevitably, whether or not it damages their legs, it can't be good for their technique.

 

[Gonetofrance]

Can anyone quote the letter, I can't ger H&H here...........

 

[BBH]

In a nutshell he says, he has been training abroad for the last 14 years and having come back to the UK he is disappointed by the standard of training for young horses. He says we have some good youngsters but the way they are produced is detrimental to their chances of becoming future stars.

He questions why youngsters are asked to go against the clock, why are novice classes run under phase one or two rules. Young horses need time to develop, to learn how to lengthen and shorten, to be balanced not galloped.

He goes on ' we cannot live in the past to produce the horse of the future so that the UK can once again become the worlds top SJ nation.

Thats the gist anyway,

 

[Gonetofrance]

Thank you, SS, and I think he's right. It's the introduction of smaller and smaller classes that has done most of the damage, I think. More competitors to get through, so not enough time to have the time-consuming three rounds.
I remember frequently jumping two rounds before the jump offs in Newcomers and Foxhunters. Clear rounds were the aim with young horses, and to teach them how to jump properly. But that was back in the dark ages whe you only had to put your hat on as you went into the ring.........

I really am a grumpy old git.........

 

[alwaysbroke]

Is this a danger in any of the specialities? i am afraid i am aware of many horses not reaching their full potential due to injury at a young age, not only physical injury they need time to mature mentally as well.
I find myself having to excuse the time we take with our young stock, we firmly belive in letting them grow into themselves before pushing them to their limit, but feel like we are being talked about behind our backs as the youngster isn't doing what someone elses is doing. too much pressure all round.
I watched a few 4 yr old classes, BE this year the majority of horses did not look comfortable over the intro xc courses, is it a case of too much too soon?

 

[SJFAN]

As another whose memory goes back to the 1960s, I too think he's right. That's why I welcomed the classes for 6 & 7 year-olds a few years back. For years I've been moaning that the Fix Final should be 1 3 rounder, and the same should apply to the other YH and novice finals.

 

[eoe]

The Old Pros are the best, I bet if you went and spoke to the Harveys, Davids and Malcolm of the famous 70's they would all agree with Lionel, horses are pushed too quick these days and break down at very young ages, I know 7 yr olds that are having to be PTS with Pedal Bone, Navicular etc etc because they are too big too be companions and the owners can't keep a horse of that age who can never be ridden again.

 

[gloster_image]

Completely agree with the sentiment that these days if you don't rush your youngster you get snide comments.
I got Rock as a 3year old, showed him and did some fun jumping as a 4year old but didn't start anything affiliated until he was 5/6 years old. And i still felt he progressed quickly at that speed! He didn't start eventing until he was 6years old and I feel I started him at the perfect place, for him and all horses are different!
However I was on a large yard at the beginning of my time with him made up of lots of different people. Nearly every day i'd overhear a bitchy comment about "that should be doing this by now" or "well that will never go anywhere at this rate"
Well look at him now - i was offered a lot of money by polly for him (which i kindly refused!) and he's been the best thing thats ever happened to me.

Also, I have a few owners that I ride for and I find the pressure from some of them immense.

 

[nuffield]

Like everything else in life we seem obsessed with speed. hurry hurry hurry. its all tied into money,sadly. Horses should be allowed to mature slowly and be brought on slowly. but the urge to over feed young show horses, 2 yr olds looking like yesteryears 4 yr olds for example, jump higher and faster, do dressage at 4 etc. all wrong IMO.

 

[amyneave]

i've meet lionel dunning!

 

[LynneB]

I agree with him completely. I am currently in the process (or rather my mares are

) of breeding two performance foals. They will stay with me and will not be ridden until they are 4 and from then on will do the odd show for fun. I certainly would not want them on the full show circuit at a young age - if ever!

I saw a certain showjumper recently, will not name him, flying round Spruce Meadows on an 8 year old mare in a speed class. I dread to think what she has done up to that point and I bet she will get damaged and then used as a broodmare as she will have a competition record. I realise he is not the only one but as he was GB he stood out more than the others.

 

[Groom42]

When I was a young rider,it was accepted that you didn't back a young horse until it was four,as it just wasn't physically or mentally strong enough.It has concerned me for some time that so much is being asked of very young horses.We see young event horse classes for four and five year olds,and to get to the finals where the standard is so high,a huge amount of work must have been put in. It makes me uneasy and I do wonder if this contributes to there apparently being so many more horses breaking down,or losing all enthusiasm, before they even get to eight. A passing aquaintance was thrilled some years ago to have purchased a five year old pony that was regularly jumping 3ft plus courses,and known to be fast against the clock. I wondered then how long it would be before it developed serious leg issues. The answer was about eighteen months. I also feel uneasy when I see photographs of horses so young they barely have tails, loose jumping huge fences. It just cannot be anything but detrimental to young,developing legs. We used to have the attitude that a horse at seven or eight was in it's prime.Now people comment that it is too old! Talented youngsters should be nurtured,allowed to develop at a slower rate,and consolidate the lessons before being asked bigger questions.Then we will have more top class, experienced, horses at the top levels in all disciplines.