Lip chains vs twitches

[ShowjumpingPrincess]

I use a lip chain for my stallion Concept, (I'll post an update on him later) as in a chain that connects to the head collar and goes between the top lip and the front teeth.

http://download.e-bookshelf.de/down...000655245-0001359148.XHTML/images/c01f006.jpg

I use it during shows, turning him out and clipping/bathing/plaiting/mane pulling. My question is, would a twitch be more effective and do they hurt the horse as they look quite cruel whereas a lip chain only comes into action when you put pressure on the lead chain.

 

[Matt and Jack]

I have never heard of a lip chain before and TBH i don't like the look of it. twitches are humane, they don't hurt the horses it releases endorphines

 

[Cinder]

A horse I know has a lip chain for the farrier, she won't stand sensibly enough in a twitch. For that horse a twitch is not as effective as a lip chain. A twitch used correctly does not hurt the horse, it should only be used for short periods of time to prevent the circulation being blocked to the lip. You can tighten and slacken the twitch depending on how the horse is reacting to what you are doing.

 

[Tickles]

Neither should be used long term for something like turning out, bathing etc I'd have thought :-(

The twitch works by making the horse release endorphins /because it hurts so much the horse couldn't otherwise handle the pain/.

The chain looks pretty brutal too.

How long have you had him? What sort of help/ground work lessons do you have?

 

[twiggy2]

i would not use a lip chain due to the potential it has to do serious damage, and i would not use a twitch on a daily basis either. i would use a skin twitch over anything else as the release is instant and it can only be maintained for a limited period of time.

IMO if you are using either on a daily basis for routine events you need to address the basic handling of you horse as something is wrong

 

[ShowjumpingPrincess]

I never use it when tying up a horse as they could seriously injure themselves if they pulled back or got caught in something, I use it when turning out as he is very big (Pretty sure he's 17hh! Have to look in his passport...) , well built and very strong and he gets excited when turning out as there are usually geldings in the next field (which make him lively being a stallion) and the mares field is after that and within easy sight and smell. He is a very energetic and excitable horse and being a stallion is not very usefull, but compared to how he used to be to ride and handle, he has come on leaps and bounds.

 

[ShowjumpingPrincess]

I have seen a horses lip go purple after only a couple of minutes of using a twitch, surely that must hurt and can't do much good!

 

[Mongoose11]

Vile. Can't believe anyone would routinely use this... Unless your horse is dangerous? Excitable is fairly normal. If I had to use this on my horse to turn him out daily due to the excitement caused by others then I would question as to whether the yard set up was right for him.

 

[Spring Feather]

Vile. Can't believe anyone would routinely use this... Unless your horse is dangerous? Excitable is fairly normal. If I had to use this on my horse to turn him out daily due to the excitement caused by others then I would question as to whether the yard set up was right for him.

... or the handler!

 

[nostromo70]

Endorphines are released into the body in response to pain. Think that answers the question of using a twitch.

 

[Spring Feather]

Well to be totally factual, endorphins CAN be released in response to pain. There are other triggers for the release of endorphins, not all are negative

 

[MissTyc]

Not sure I like the lip chain - does it "calm" them, like a twitch or does it control them?

Personally I have twitched when needed, for injury or ear clipping on new horses, etc ... I always twitch with my fingers as can instantly release and "feel" the horse. Am lucky to have horses in my life that have never needed more control than this but understand why it is sometimes necessary on less well handled or dangerous horses.

 

[tiggipop]

don't like the look of the lip chain

I too am fairly small - 5ft 2 in comparison to my "boy" who is just over 17hh and a Friesian so fairly substantial. when my dad became poorly and I became responsible for him I put in lots of ground work with my instructor. He is I admit handled in a rope halter but so is another of the big horses (17.3hh just gives me a bit more confidence!). he has been taught manners - very important cos of our size difference - is turned out in field next to geldings - stabled in a barn with all the others - expected to stand to be clipped / plaited / well actually I expect the same behaviour from him as all the geldings

I guess what I am saying is I would not like to use the lip chain for everyday handling and would be fairly concerned if I had to.

 

[Nicnac]

Deleted as CBA

 

[SCMSL]

I use a lip chain whenever needles are involved. My horse turns into a fire breathing dragon so to poke her in the vein you need at least a person on each side holding the halter so she "sits" on her hocks instead of throwing herself on her back. The lip chain gives one of the handlers some control. Its pretty hard on everyone, but sometimes there is no other choice.

She is pretty hard to put a twitch on, and its pretty ineffective on her.

For turning out when she's more nervous we just use the chain on her nose instead of inside the lip, and that usually is enough.

 

[twiggy2]

I use a lip chain whenever needles are involved. My horse turns into a fire breathing dragon so to poke her in the vein you need at least a person on each side holding the halter so she "sits" on her hocks instead of throwing herself on her back. The lip chain gives one of the handlers some control. Its pretty hard on everyone, but sometimes there is no other choice.

She is pretty hard to put a twitch on, and its pretty ineffective on her.

For turning out when she's more nervous we just use the chain on her nose instead of inside the lip, and that usually is enough.

for needles i agree there may be a time the lip chain is needed (not sure i would ever be comfortable using one myself though), but for turning out which should be a daily event neither a chain on the lip or nose should be needed, manners need addressing and a simple bridle with a 12ft lead rope should be all that is needed at the very most.

OP why do you not geld your horse if his behaviour is a problem?

 

[BSJAlove]

Having worked with stallions before I think you need to address your basic ground work. The stud I worked for had several stallions. Breeding stallions and young stallions ready for grading. We spent some time making sure those horses were sane and not dangerous. They could be walked by mares, geldings, new horses, schooling horses... Ect. The only time they ever needed anything other then a normal head collar was when it's was covering time and they knew it. Even then they were only in stallion chains..

Just because they are entire, it doesn't make them fire breathing dragons. Using a lip chain everyday is pretty brutal. I'd be getting someone experienced in to help you.

 

[BSJAlove]

Ps, I see you use the lip chain at shows. You must have managed to get concept moving then. I remember your last post about him....

 

[snooples]

Iv never used a lip chain but anyone that has could maybe tell me if they are worse than a chifney.

As a chifney would be my first port of call for a horse thats bad to handle, provided you know how to use one correctly.
In the racing yard all horses were led in chifneys but with a lead rope with a double clip one to the head collar and the other to the chifney so the headcollar was the mainly used for control and chifney would only come into play if there was a problem

 

[khalswitz]

I've used stallion chains on horses that can be tricky to handle, but I'd never use a lip chain. Looks a bit harsh and like it could easily go wrong...

 

[weebarney]

Sounds like the horse has serious issues if he can't even be plaited or bathed without a chain on his gums, I feel sorry for him.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I to used to use a stallion chain it goes under the chin, I wouldnt use a lip chain for everyday things likke turnout its too harsh, you cant twitch a horse to turn it out either.

 

[TandD]

I use a lip chain for my stallion Concept, (I'll post an update on him later) as in a chain that connects to the head collar and goes between the top lip and the front teeth.

http://download.e-bookshelf.de/down...000655245-0001359148.XHTML/images/c01f006.jpg

I use it during shows, turning him out and clipping/bathing/plaiting/mane pulling. My question is, would a twitch be more effective and do they hurt the horse as they look quite cruel whereas a lip chain only comes into action when you put pressure on the lead chain.

if you need a lip chain for all of that then there must be some serious problem with the mangement, handling and care of your horse.
i cant quite believe that you would think that the twitch is more painful than a chain digging into the gums!!!!
if you require that chain like that at shows (and plaiting ) there is no way your horse should be going out..... especially if you need a more 'effective' method of control if this one isnt working.....
*if* there is a problem i would advise plent of ground work... without the chain.... no horse should be subjected to a chain constantly in its mouth! balls or no balls!
i have seen chains across the nose, and in a very amorous staillion once through the mouth to walk it past a naughty mare.... but never over the gum!

your horse must be very dangerous if you are looking for a more 'effective' method of control..... and a twitch is certainly not the answer! they should be left on for only a max of 10mins and should not be used as a regular method of control!
i would advise you gain the respect of your horse through ground work... simple comands and respect of your personal space!...... a leadrope over the nose when very 'up for it' should be enough if your horse respects what you ask of it... entire or cut!

 

[WelshD]

You are 13 so I would question your skill in using either the chain or a twitch effectively

Once again your extremely experienced with sports horses parents seem to have let you down to the point you turn to a forum of strangers for advice

 

[Donnie Darco]

You are 13 so I would question your skill in using either the chain or a twitch effectively

Once again your extremely experienced with sports horses parents seem to have let you down to the point you turn to a forum of strangers for advice

Aha- I rem you!! "I ride my horse in rolkur"

Something not quite right here

 

[christine48]

I've seen an Indian twitch, which is a thin piece of string which goes under the top lip and it worked just as well as a normal twitch. In fact it looked more humane than twisting the top lip.

 

[Pigeon]

Agree with others, if you need that level of kit just for every day handling, something is going very wrong!

What's his breeding?

 

[Toast]

I have used a similar kind of gum twitch when working on a stud. But a rope instead if a chain.. tbh I wouldnt dream of using a chain on such delicate skin. Ouch.
However when used with a smallish piece of rope, applied on and off, not constantly works very well.
This was only used, I'll just add.. on a mare when collecting off a stallion using a live mare, or covering naturally. None of the stallions I worked with needed a gum chain to do everyday handling tasks. The most that anyone ever used was a chifney. I think you need to address your management techniques.

 

[Hells Bells]

It's late, and I'm tired (still not sleeping properly and on colic watch) so perhaps I'm reading more or less into this than I should do.

But something about this thread/your previous threads and posts/your profile just doesn't quite sit with me, and I don't know why.

Whatever the truth may be, I hope to God you find someone to help you learn to handle this stallion without the need for chains so regularly. Echo what others are saying, and perhaps go back to basics of groundwork and build up a strong relationship with him before it's too late and he associates you and others with nothing but pain.

Also, at 13 years old, if you are being left to handle a 17hh plus stallion who needs to be handled in such contraptions on such regular occasions, I would ask for help- as a parent, I wouldn't leave my child in a position like that, and I'm sure if you needed help your parents would assist you.

 

[NaeNae87]

I have used stallion chains on my gelding who can be a downright prat to lead when he thinks he can get away with it and also on the stallions that I used to work with. I have always found that the chain over their nose or under the chin is sufficient enough to control them even when they are excited and worked up. Most of the time the chain is not needed.

For you to need a chain on a stallion everytime he is lead, there is something wrong. Instead of chucking a chain on his gums (which IMO is pretty brutal), maybe try doing some groundwork with him? Teach him manners and boundaries and then you won't need to pretty much torture the poor thing every time he is handled.