Little dent in hoof - should I be worried?

[Onyx_pwf]

I noticed this little dent in my horses hoof and was wondering if I should be concerned and what could of caused it. I’m not too knowledgeable in this area so apologies if it’s something that has a really simple explanation!

*picture should be attached, let me know if it’s not*

 

[Gloi]

It looks like the exit hole from an old abscess growing down the hoof. That is nothing to worry about at this point but the hoof is in terrible condition. This is likely down to diet and there are many threads about growing strong feet but a low sugar diet and a good mineral supplement with copper and zinc is a start.

 

[Onyx_pwf]

It looks like the exit hole from an old abscess growing down the hoof. That is nothing to worry about at this point but the hoof is in terrible condition. This is likely down to diet and there are many threads about growing strong feet but a low sugar diet and a good mineral supplement with copper and zinc is a start.

Thank you for replying! Gosh I didn’t know his hooves were that unhealthy as I’m a fairly new to owning my own horses and still trying to get educated about hoof care. Do you think it could be due to him eating too much grass? I’ll definitely research how to make his feet stronger and speak to my farrier about it.

 

[Onyx_pwf]

Anyone have any ideas on what exactly I should be bringing up with my farrier? And personal experiences with dieting and methods to growing strong feet? (Will be speaking with my vet ASAP, just not open atm but will be Monday) Should I take him off pasture to reduce the sugar intake he gets? (he’s out 24/7)

sorry if that’s a lot of questions I’m just concerned now!

 

[Onyx_pwf]

Also he seemed hesitant to move forward today. He seemed to be standing a bit wider in the back and like sometimes planting his feet and just stretching his neck out when I asked him to lead. He recently had his back to shoes removed a few days ago so could still be sore. Also had pads put in the front since he was landing toe first apparentally.

 

[PurBee]

Aside from the possible abscess hold in the hoof, has your farrier used hoof patches on the external wall of that hoof? Looks like there’s some light grey acrylic patch material on the inner and outer quarter.

 

[Gloi]

All these things are connected to the unhealthy hooves unfortunately. Did your farrier say why he thought he was landing toe first. It is usually due to pain or weakness in the heel area. What are his frogs like, has he any thrush? Did the farrier have to put filler on the walls because they were breaking up and not enough wall to nail into? I had that problem with mine at one time and I ended up taking the shoes off and using hoof boots.
Read through the threads on here about growing strong feet, some are barefoot threads.
There are good supplements from a company called Progressive Earth on ebay which helped my pony. You need to make sure he gets a lower sugar diet and will probably have to restrict grass to some degree in the spring. As he is having problems now, yes get him off grass and give soaked hay.
How old is your pony, do you know if he has any health conditions like EMS or Cushing's or if he's had laminitis in the past?

 

[PapaverFollis]

Has the farrier used putty/filler to get the shoes nailed on there?

I'd usually say "abscess exit track" grown down but it doesn't quite look right for that, looks more like a crack from the nail area that has worked its way up. Hmmm. There's definitely poor quality foot there. That can be helped with diet but it takes time.

I think speaking to a vet would be a good idea, given you inexperience. Perhaps see if there is a particular farrier the vet works with and maybe get a second opinion on the feet from them.

 

[paddy555]

I'm not sure that is an abscess exit hole. If you look at the front of it it seems to continue round the front of the hoof and beyond the black stripe seems to be a very definite line.
Either way it doesn't really matter. The abscess, if there ever was one, was quite a while back.

As far as your vet goes I don't think you really need him for the hoof quality. As others have said it is poor. You need both better quality hoof and also growth to grow out the hoof preferably faster.
I use equimins advanced complete supplement and have found it very successful over many years in producing both growth and quality. Others use forage plus or progressive earth supplements. There are a lot of poor supplements on the market which people religiously buy. The thing with supplements is what are the ingredients and are there enough of them to make a difference.
If you go to the forage plus website you will find lots of articles about supplements and horse and hoof care (especially hoof care) All well worth learning from.

your post number 5 worried me more than his feet. I don't know if you are describing sore hind feet, laminitis, or anything else.
Thrush is one reason why he could be sore on the hinds but there are others. Laminitis is a reason for his reluctance to move. Landing toe first is not good but it is impossible to say why without further info.

If you were able to give details of his age, breed, work, how he is kept and possibly a picture of him sideways on it would help. If you could post some pics. of his hind hoof held up (ie photographing the sole and frog, well cleaned and brushed out) that may give some ideas as well.

I would remove him from the grass for the time being or alternatively very much restrict it and give him soaked hay until there is more info. available and someone can have a guess what his problem might be. If laminitis is a possibility then a vet will be useful and possibly a test for cushings.

far better to be safe than sorry and take evasive action now to prevent laminitis even if it turns out to be something else (if anything)

 

[Onyx_pwf]

Aside from the possible abscess hold in the hoof, has your farrier used hoof patches on the external wall of that hoof? Looks like there’s some light grey acrylic patch material on the inner and outer quarter.

All these things are connected to the unhealthy hooves unfortunately. Did your farrier say why he thought he was landing toe first. It is usually due to pain or weakness in the heel area. What are his frogs like, has he any thrush? Did the farrier have to put filler on the walls because they were breaking up and not enough wall to nail into? I had that problem with mine at one time and I ended up taking the shoes off and using hoof boots.
Read through the threads on here about growing strong feet, some are barefoot threads.
There are good supplements from a company called Progressive Earth on ebay which helped my pony. You need to make sure he gets a lower sugar diet and will probably have to restrict grass to some degree in the spring. As he is having problems now, yes get him off grass and give soaked hay.
How old is your pony, do you know if he has any health conditions like EMS or Cushing's or if he's had laminitis in the past?

So I couldn't be at his last farrier appointment due to a scheduling conflict that I couldn't cancel. All of what happened at the farrier was either told to me by word of mouth or written down by the person holding him (my mom) for the farrier by my request. I just now found out by her that the farrier never gave her a reason for the landing toe first and just said "well he's not a sport horse, it's in his blood, you get what you get" and and whether or not he said something after this that she's accidentally left out or not, that's not a very good response. Whether or not he's a fancy sport horse I'm just trying to make him comfortable and he should've taken the time to give us a little extra information. I'll get pictures of his frogs and soles later to post here, and all around hoof shots of him with clean hooves.

Yes I'll throw him into a spare paddock today with just hay until we can figure out what's going on and how to proceed.

He is 8 or 9 years old, give or take a year or two. I got him as an auction rescue, so not sure if he's had laminitis in the past. I don't think he has EMS or cushings, although he hasn't been specifically tested for any of those either so it's not impossible either.

 

[Gloi]

You should hopefully be able to turn him round with good diet and hoof care. If he's had a rough past you should soon see a difference.
I wouldn't be happy with the farrier's response though ?

 

[JanetGeorge]

You should hopefully be able to turn him round with good diet and hoof care. If he's had a rough past you should soon see a difference.
I wouldn't be happy with the farrier's response though ?

I confess I find it hard to work out WHICH is more important - a good farrier or a good EDT. I have a fantastic farrier - who has also become a close friend. I HAVE experienced the efforts of a lousy farrier - the sad thing about him is that for the first 15 years he went from VERY good, to not good enough after he married a cow-bag of a horsey woman and got lazier. It was a few more years before he started to forget to even look at a horse's foot problems before ordering an apprentice to 'do him' without a single word of guidance, or even checking the final job!! So I sacked him. But at least with a farrier we CAN ask him questions and demanding answers - and if we don't get sensible advice, give him the boot! And EDT is FAR harder to judge with real accuracy. I had one mare who had such problems it took a vet FOUR visits to see the problem (apart from her stinking breath! and excessive quidding.) I never used a vet for teeth again! I should add, the mare in question is now a very well respected Police horse in London!

 

[paddy555]

I just now found out by her that the farrier never gave her a reason for the landing toe first and just said "well he's not a sport horse, it's in his blood, you get what you get"

not sure if I am allowed to write "b*llocks" on here without getting chastised but here goes.

of course he deserves to be comfortable and have the best foot care. I am not sure this farrier is going to be the one to give it.

can I just ask are you in the UK or US? doesn't matter for commenting about your feet etc but it probably does affect any products suggested as many of us here are in the UK.

 

[Onyx_pwf]

Had an extremely busy past few days so sorry that I haven’t replied to all of you! I will try to do that soon. Here are some recent hoof pics. Not really concerned about the dent anymore, more concerned about the overall condition of his hooves. First two pics are the backs. Bottom two are the fronts.
He refused to move when I got him from his paddock so I tapped him on the bum with a crop just to see if it would help and he went right along. Lunged him for a bit just to see how his gaits were, his walk and canter were okay, besides some very minor bucking at the canter and a bit of a “jumpy start” into the trot.

 

[GrassChop]

Had an extremely busy past few days so sorry that I haven’t replied to all of you! I will try to do that soon. Here are some recent hoof pics. Not really concerned about the dent anymore, more concerned about the overall condition of his hooves. First two pics are the backs. Bottom two are the fronts.
He refused to move when I got him from his paddock so I tapped him on the bum with a crop just to see if it would help and he went right along. Lunged him for a bit just to see how his gaits were, his walk and canter were okay, besides some very minor bucking at the canter and a bit of a “jumpy start” into the trot.

Backs look very underun and at different angles, the dark one is more upright. Fronts look too long.
I'm sure I read somewhere that the horizontal lines can indicate previous bouts of laminitis but I could be wrong.
The other much more experienced HHOers will come along shortly!

 

[Onyx_pwf]

Backs look very underun and at different angles, the dark one is more upright. Fronts look too long.
I'm sure I read somewhere that the horizontal lines can indicate previous bouts of laminitis but I could be wrong.
The other much more experienced HHOers will come along shortly!

Thank you! Yeah I read somewhere about the lines indicating laminitis too. And yes I can definitely see that the backs are two different angles now that I’m looking at them. And im surprised the fronts are too long considering that I got him trimmed less than a week ago.

Ill have to speak to my farrier about this. He hasn’t been responding to my texts or calls though.

 

[PurBee]

The lines on the front hooves are useful for seeing the uneven growth of hoof wall though. The front hooves quarters are too long, coronet band pushed up at those areas of most hoof wall pressure. The hoof was naturally trying to lose the excess quarter wall by breaking at the bottom of the foot, but mr farrier came along and stuck filler there, (probably to have something to nail the shoe to) negating the hooves self-trimming efforts.

When excess wall growth pressure is trimmed, it relieves the tension in the wall and the coronet drops to align better, sometimes within hours of trimming, but certainly within a few days.
Hoof walls will break and split wherever the hoof wall growth is uneven as the pressure of the capsules gives way to weight. These splits and cracks should tell a farrier there’s uneven pressure on the wall. A hoof left alone will self-trim by chunks being discarded - it doesnt look like a ‘pretty hoof’ but its still a good functioning hoof.

If youre in an area that is awash with farriers i’d opt to try a different farrier - or better yet, say which county youre in and many on here might be there and can recommend someone.

 

[Onyx_pwf]

The lines on the front hooves are useful for seeing the uneven growth of hoof wall though. The front hooves quarters are too long, coronet band pushed up at those areas of most hoof wall pressure. The hoof was naturally trying to lose the excess quarter wall by breaking at the bottom of the foot, but mr farrier came along and stuck filler there, (probably to have something to nail the shoe to) negating the hooves self-trimming efforts.

When excess wall growth pressure is trimmed, it relieves the tension in the wall and the coronet drops to align better, sometimes within hours of trimming, but certainly within a few days.
Hoof walls will break and split wherever the hoof wall growth is uneven as the pressure of the capsules gives way to weight. These splits and cracks should tell a farrier there’s uneven pressure on the wall. A hoof left alone will self-trim by chunks being discarded - it doesnt look like a ‘pretty hoof’ but its still a good functioning hoof.

If youre in an area that is awash with farriers i’d opt to try a different farrier - or better yet, say which county youre in and many on here might be there and can recommend someone.

I’ll probably try a different farrier for his next trim, which will probably be sooner rather then later. I have a list of about 20 farriers in my area from greatest to worst from a friend so I think I’m all set!

I called my farrier today and told him that onyx was a bit tender and that he seemed reluctant to move. He was shifting his weight from foot to foot too. The farrier said he noticed some swelling and heat on his right front lower leg his last visit, but assumed that it was due to trauma from having a pulled shoe. He said possible causes of the reluctance to move and such are an abscess or a tendon or ligament injury he might have gotten during the period where he lost a shoe.
Although he also mentioned that the way Onyx’s feet are shaped he’s a prime candidate for navicular and that that could be a reason as well. He said that him walking toe first and his choppy strides (I’ve never felt anything quite like it) are symptoms of that, although his walking toe first has improved with special pads in the front feet. He said something about the heel needing to be left on to help that or something, I honestly forgot there’s so many things I’m trying to process right now. Not sure what to think at this point.

 

[quiteniceforacob]

Where are you based? The recommendations on here are second to none!

 

[PurBee]

I’ll probably try a different farrier for his next trim, which will probably be sooner rather then later. I have a list of about 20 farriers in my area from greatest to worst from a friend so I think I’m all set!

I called my farrier today and told him that onyx was a bit tender and that he seemed reluctant to move. He was shifting his weight from foot to foot too. The farrier said he noticed some swelling and heat on his right front lower leg his last visit, but assumed that it was due to trauma from having a pulled shoe. He said possible causes of the reluctance to move and such are an abscess or a tendon or ligament injury he might have gotten during the period where he lost a shoe.
Although he also mentioned that the way Onyx’s feet are shaped he’s a prime candidate for navicular and that that could be a reason as well. He said that him walking toe first and his choppy strides (I’ve never felt anything quite like it) are symptoms of that, although his walking toe first has improved with special pads in the front feet. He said something about the heel needing to be left on to help that or something, I honestly forgot there’s so many things I’m trying to process right now. Not sure what to think at this point.

I can understand youre somewhat confused as your farrier has thrown a few possible causes at you about the issues. I’d be hoping to be told what to do next to navigate yet he’s not being that helpful.
Maybe you could get more clarity from a different farrier…new set of eyes, can see the strides, assess etc…ask them to come for an assessment and trim if needed.

The heat and swelling in 1 front foot and choppy short strides with both fronts sounds possible laminitis. If he was just lame choppy limping with the 1 swollen limb i’d also think tendon/soreness from pulled shoe, but if both fronts are ‘footy’, i’d be considering possible laminitis. Is there heat and raised pulse in the other, front, non-swollen foot? If so, i’d treat as laminitis and keep on soft ground/bedding, very low sugar forage, soaked hay, box rest if the horse is obviously reluctant to stride, call vet if both fronts have heat and bounding pulses and horse is obviously uncomfortable.
You said he was reluctant to come in from the field - does he normally behave like that?….maybe due to being out 24/7 and being stubborn, but if it’s unusual for him, consider he’s not comfortable on his feet and get another farrier or vet to assess.

 

[Onyx_pwf]

Where are you based? The recommendations on here are second to none!

I’m based in the US so I doubt a lot of people on here would have recommendations since most are from the UK.

I can understand youre somewhat confused as your farrier has thrown a few possible causes at you about the issues. I’d be hoping to be told what to do next to navigate yet he’s not being that helpful.
Maybe you could get more clarity from a different farrier…new set of eyes, can see the strides, assess etc…ask them to come for an assessment and trim if needed.

The heat and swelling in 1 front foot and choppy short strides with both fronts sounds possible laminitis. If he was just lame choppy limping with the 1 swollen limb i’d also think tendon/soreness from pulled shoe, but if both fronts are ‘footy’, i’d be considering possible laminitis. Is there heat and raised pulse in the other, front, non-swollen foot? If so, i’d treat as laminitis and keep on soft ground/bedding, very low sugar forage, soaked hay, box rest if the horse is obviously reluctant to stride, call vet if both fronts have heat and bounding pulses and horse is obviously uncomfortable.
You said he was reluctant to come in from the field - does he normally behave like that?….maybe due to being out 24/7 and being stubborn, but if it’s unusual for him, consider he’s not comfortable on his feet and get another farrier or vet to assess.

Okay thank you! I have another farrier that I’ve heard good things about that I’ll probably have out in the next week or so.
Sorry if the answer is obvious but what do you mean by “footy”? It was warm by his other hoof, but I have no clue if that’s normal or not. I couldn’t feel a pulse, but knowing me I was probably feeling in the wrong place.
My thought was laminitis as well when I first came across this problem, considering he’s only been out on grass and such 24/7 consistently for the last month and he had a change in diet.
He never behaved like that when coming in from the field up until a few days ago (after the farrier). My friend said it was probably just him being stubborn but I was a bit puzzled since he never ever did that before. He basically just plants his feet and stretches his neck out when I give him a tug with the lead rope. He also doesn’t come up to me anymore, he waits for me in the same position even if I have food (and he’s extremely food driven so that was surprising). I gave him a tap on the bum with a crop and that seemed to get him moving but he kept planting his feet every 30-40 feet or so. So I think he’s uncomfortable. Although he kept moving once out of the paddock, slower but he moved.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

RE 'footy.'

Imagine someone asked you to take your shoes off and walk over some sharp stones. You'd walk very carefully and slowly because it would be really uncomfortable. It's that sort of walking really carefully that is meant by 'footy' when describing a horse. It's not good especially when there aren't any sharp stones or the horse has previously been confident on the same terrain and now it is 'footy'. It can indicate that there is something going on with the hooves that is causing the horse to be more sensitive/in pain.

 

[Gloi]

Sadly it does sound from what you are saying about how he was coming in from the field that he may have laminitis. Keep him on a deep bed and with soaked hay to eat and get a good horse vet to look at him.

 

[PurBee]

How to take your horses hoof pulse is in the below video, with good images of the arteries you are checking for.

Some horses ‘normal’ may be to always have a very mild pulse and cold hoof walls. Other horses ‘normal’ may be to have slightly warm hoof walls and an easily detectable pulse. So knowing your horses ‘normal’ is very helpful when there are any issues.

My own tend to have warm walls and a easy find pulse. Theyre barefoot. When theyve had foot issues, the heat in the hoof is oftentimes easily detectably increased. The pulse will be more pronounced. Abscesses can create heat in a specific area. Low grade Laminitis will generally increase heat all over. Acute laminitis generally causes a really hot hoof and bounding pulses which can even be seen without having to feel. My 2 had severe acute laminitis and colic for a short spell after consuming a whole bale of rape straw bedding overnight that had been sold to me as miscanthus bedding.
So a change in diet is 1 key culprit for triggering mild or severe laminitis attacks. You said your boy had a change in diet so consider this could be laminitis than tendon sprain, especially if both feet are warm and his strides are short and choppy on both feet. If its a bad attack all 4 feet could be hot with raised pulses.

One time my gelding had hives and his front feet went very cold - which was unusual for him. So knowing your horses hooves normal temp and pulse strength really helps you to know when there’s a problem. Some videos/info will say the horse should have cold feet, but that’s inaccurate, as many other resources testify.

If your horse has been sore since the farrier visit it may be a wrong placed nail on the fronts. Another thing to consider. So get the farrier back asap to check. But if both feet are sore, or all 4 feet are hot and pulses bouncing vigorously, consider laminitis and have him on very soft footing/bedding and very low sugar hay….soaked preferably. Also i would get probiotics into the gut to help the digestive microbes aid the assault of feed change, if you suspect that caused it.

Usually with laminitis metal shoes are pulled off, excess wall rasped low, hooves booted with pads and/or on very deep soft bedding, and the horse given painkillers and soaked low sugar hay. Basically laminitis means the tiny velcro ‘fingers’ that hold the hoof wall to the foot bone within are loosening their grip due to inflammation, so when the horse steps on that hoof, the laminae velcro fingers get pulled more. A bit like if your finger nail was able to move and you press your finger tip down on a table and your nail got pushed up - it would hurt. Thats why horses dont want to walk with a laminitis attack happening.

 

[angel7]

He's come from a sale and in just a short time is footy so much so the farrier has left the heels long and put pads in the shoes?
I would get X rays of the front hooves, timing wise any drugs will be wearing off and soreness will make them toe first landing and pottery. I would be getting vet to look at laminitus and navicular very closely....

 

[sbloom]

Toe landing is from poor function, and his poor hoof shape is related and is all, in part at least, down to your farrier. I would read up as MUCH as you possibly can, the barefoot fans tend to be hotter on hoof function but The Equine Documentalist and Progressive Equine Services on FB are good for new shoeing approaches. Once you have decided what you want to do you can then hunt out the right professionals to help, and the right feeds. I would post on ChronofHorse and ask for more specific recommendations once you know what you want, as we can't help with farriers, trimmers or feeds from the UK sadly.

Xrays might be very helpful at this point, and PES as I mentioned above would do a remote assessment from xrays I think.