Little Monster just refuses to carry weight

Another vote for copra :)

BUT I would definitely blood test first, as a priority.

I used to inject my old eventer with vit b12 this time of year as he'd drop off as hunting/winter began but this was done with agreement of my vet and after regular bloods.

Made a HUGE difference though
 
I wondered about the hay ration too. Is this small bales? Then 4 wedges a day isn't much at all. Try doubling it and see what happens.
 
ImmyS said:
I would get graze on grass nuts, or the simple systems ones where you can choose the quality of the grass, should really help his weight as obviously horses were designed to digest grass, should also help his energy levels. I would be inclined to lower his workload until he starts picking up, he's skinny for just going into winter. And as amymay says, if he doesn't pick up, I would get the vet out.
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We used soaked grassnuts and Graze-on with soaked Speedibeet and linseed oil to put weight back on our oldie after a nasty bout of colic. We now use the same feeds to maintain her weight. I feel that these are more digestible than cereal based mixes and enable them to use all the feed rather than it just passing through the gut.

I don't think he is eating enough long forage either, so possibly give him Alfalfa/Graze-on in a trug as well.
 
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Wagtail said:
Are you talking sall bales or big bales? Because if it's small bales then that is only half of what he needs! There would be your answer. Do you weight his hay and haylage? If so, how much does it weigh?

How old is he? Could he have Cushings?

Lastly, he has the most odd conformation up front that I have ever seen. His front legs seem to be around 6 inches in front of where they should be. Maybe it's how he is standing, but if not, this will be putting a huge amount of stress and strain on him and could contribute to him being a poor doer.

Sorry, just seen that he is only 7, so scrub the Cushings suggestion.
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Just looked at the picture again and also noticed the odd conformation, his front legs look really far toward, do you have any other pictures as good be bad lighting/ angle?
 
We have a couple who we have had problems with. We now feed calm and condition, equilibra, equijewel, alfa beet and non molassed alfa. If he is stabled a lot I would def be feeding at least three feeds, probably four, and would also be giving alfa and a readi grass type product as bucket feed over night. Our anglo was on over 20kg of haylage at night, and ate the lot, but never got fat.
We finally got her scoped, even though there were few other physical signs, and she did have ulcers, in spite of a very low starch feed, and lots of turnout.
 
You really need to get blood tests and check for ulcers. This horse probably has something going on in which he's not utilising what he's being given. Basically no matter what you give him it probably won't work.

Terri
 
I agree, blood tests. And while I'm not saying he is an ok weight, I think the lack of muscle makes him look far worse than he is. Obviously he needs whatever is going on with his metabolism sorting before he has spare calories to build muscle with. I'd have him out once blood tests done, all day everyday. The walking around out will do more for his topline than work alone.
 
The recommended amount of Spillers Response Slow Release Cubes for a horse of his size is about 3-4 times the amount you're currently feeding if you go by their recommendations I think, if you're feeding 1kg split over 2 feeds? I think the recommended amount for a horse of his size is 3-4kg per day? Maybe try calling Spillers?
 
Oberon said:
There's so much starch in the diet :eek:.
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Not really - the Slow Release Cubes are relatively low starch for a competition feed and the rest of the items aren't high in starch either. The mollassed sugar beet IS high in sugar though, so I would prefer to see this replaced with unmollassed beet.
 
Zargon_91 said:
After ideas....
He currently eats adlib hay and haylage (he has choice of 2 nets at all times)
1kg alfa a
2kg mollassed sugar beet
1kg spillers response slow release comp feed
200ml vegetable oil
keep me sound balancer (covers vits+mins, feet, coat, high quality protein, digestive aid etc)
electrolyte
split between 2 feeds (morning and evening)
(
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How long have you had him and what is his history? How long has he been on the exact diet above? How much hay and haylage does he actually eat a day in kg? (As opposed to how much is he given?) And, forgive me if I have missed it, but how big is he?
 
I would:

-Worm for tapeworm asap and worm count
-Feed a high fibre diet: 2 feeds a day high fibre cubes, fast firbre, micronised linseed (2mugfulls a day) and veg oil.
-Feed ad lib forage (which you already are)
-If no improvement get vet out to do bloods
-I would also cut down his work load and just do slow hacking conditioning work.

Is he stressy??
 
Has he been scoped for ulcers?

Very little turnout, high cereal diet and not maintaining a good weight would be enough for me to be wanting that checked out.

There's a lot in micronised (ground) linseed that you won't find in veg oil in terms of helping a horse put on some condition. Offering a choice or different forages can help too.
 
xmillyx said:
I would:

-Worm for tapeworm asap and worm count
-Feed a high fibre diet: 2 feeds a day high fibre cubes, fast firbre, micronised linseed (2mugfulls a day) and veg oil.
-Feed ad lib forage (which you already are)
-If no improvement get vet out to do bloods
-I would also cut down his work load and just do slow hacking conditioning work.

Is he stressy??
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This - but given what he's getting now and how he looks I would actually get the vet to do blood tests now.

If only cos he's rather poor condition to be throwing lots of wormers at and the vet will be able to send off blood for a tapeworm test (which will be definitive as to whether he has them) when he takes the blood for the blood test. Doesnt cost much and while you wait for results back- it can take up to a couple of weeks as often done in batches at the lab not as soon as they get yours - in the meantime you could do the wormer for the other worms (esp small encysted redworm, Equest or similar) and do the feed change thing.

Edited to add I would also try a blood/vit and min tonic - like Propell or NAF do one too. Mine (when he was very poor from a long running recurring virus) loved his sticky tonic on top of his food and it seemed to perk him up.
 
OK... his confirmation really isnt that bad- yes its a pretty bad pic but i wanted to use one you can actually see he is ribby...


i dont have many of him standing up but this is from about 2 months ago and you can see he is lean but not ribby- or retarded :P (his leg looks a bit odd but its the photo)

this is from when i got him... again not overly useful but you can see he is very immature, and no sort of muscle as well as being thin

picture.php


He is just gone 7, broken very late due to overstocking at the breeders, ive had him since feb and he has been in work since jan. Ive got him fit very slowly, he does lots of work in walk and trot, and spends a good 20 minutes warming up and stretching every time he is worked so although he is worked almost every day it isnt high intensity, just a bit longer. but ive found he has responded best to this in his schooling. He is half warmblood, so he might just be a late one to mature.

album.php


He was reclipped tonight, and actually very surprisingly (nice surprise!) covered- picture is about 4 weeks old but i didnt have any better ones and i thought he was doing worse than he is- i will take some pictures tomorrow

I am happy with the content of his diet, he is not fed too much cereal, and equally I cant change it to anything roughage based because he simply will not get the energetic requirements from it as well as sticking to his appetite. I might try increasing it gradually though although he is getting a full vitamin and mineral balancer.

Im going to give him a 5 day wormer for tapeworm just to make sure he isnt carrying an extra burden, and if nothing else happens I will call the vet as after talking to people on the yard its likely he may have picked up a virus.

Thankyou for everyone's thoughts and suggestions.

Just to add ref. ulcers etc. He has lived out, not in work and not being fed/rugged/stabled etc until i bought him so it is unlikely he has ulcers as he has actually out some condition on with me, just not enough. I have found though that under saddle he has a tendency to get hyped up very quickly and if his adrenaline rises he stays wired for some time... hence the response comp feed (he needs the high energy and the cereals are actually processed in a better form than a cereal based conditioning feed) im thinking he might have a very high metabolism still?
 
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Zargon_91 said:
Im going to give him a 5 day wormer for tapeworm just to make sure he isnt carrying an extra burden, and if nothing else happens I will call the vet as after talking to people on the yard its likely he may have picked up a virus.
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Please note 5 day Equine Guard does not deal with tapeworms--used for encysted redworms mid winter/early spring
 
I would suggest you cut his work load down a bit and let him use the energy getting fat- if he is now more covered great but this point in the year you want fatter not thinner.
You have been given lots of advice which is what you asked for however you sound set in your ways and people have wasted time giving helpful advice.
PS it was only the picture don't take to heart that people said his legs look funny.
 
hi there, i had trouble last winter to keep weight on m TB. I found that keeping feeding very basic was the key,
she had adlib hay/haylage at night, 7-4 turnout & then was feed topspec balancer & chaff x 2 a day & then midd december, she has speedibeat just to help her not drop the weight as the weather gets colder. Perhaos and a oil in there too!

Alphabeat is good for weight gain aswell. I also would drop the work load intill she picks up abit :)
 
TGM said:
How long have you had him and what is his history? How long has he been on the exact diet above? How much hay and haylage does he actually eat a day in kg? (As opposed to how much is he given?) And, forgive me if I have missed it, but how big is he?
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ive said about history etc.
Slices are from the large bales in each account, probibly totalling around 25kg
He is 15.2
He has been on this diet since september, he was on half amounts over the summer, and bluechip dynamic instead of the keep me sound

OH this is going to sound stupid, ive taken him off his magnesium calmer... does magnesium help with uptake of nutrients at all????
 
dizzydancer said:
I would suggest you cut his work load down a bit and let him use the energy getting fat- if he is now more covered great but this point in the year you want fatter not thinner.
You have been given lots of advice which is what you asked for however you sound set in your ways and people have wasted time giving helpful advice.
PS it was only the picture don't take to heart that people said his legs look funny.
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not true! I really appreciate the advice but some of it has been conflicting! I am going to worm him and talk to the vet though?
And about the pic... he is sensitive about his legs :P
x
 
sorry can't edit on phone but wanted to say he looks a nice weight in the ridden pic.
Bare in mind if late developer he could have gone upward and hence looks ribby and will now fill out again.
 
I think this has been helpful :) i vote with trying to find the issue step by step. Reduce his work load alot and see if he starts to put anything on. If not change something feedwise. Then bloods ect. I dont think making major changes all at once will help you locate the issue. All i remember when he arrived was he was round and furry and kinda shan shapped (zargon will understand) he is quite TB looking atm :( ziggles get fatty! Ozzy can share some?
 
Definitely worm- iv just done my tape worm thanks to rolf Harris program last week for reminding me!
It can help if he is lacking in magnesium- that could also be making him more stressy now and hence struggling to keep weight on.
 
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, so apologies if it has, but how are his teeth? If he's not chewing his food properly he won't digest it properly and won't get the full benefit from it. If his teeth are good I'd get a worm count and bloods done.
 
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I think my port of call would be teeth and basic blood work to check kidney and liver functions.
After that checked out fine then you could try replacing the chaff with the Equilibrium Growth - it's purely fibre and oil based so no worries about starch and hyping him up but has a good amount of protein and calories to get the weight on. This is what the feed company recommended to us to get weight on my extremely skinny tb when we rescued him and it worked really well with him. Their medium and high energy versions are also really good for giving energy for work without fizziness (something we struggle with with one of the cobs)
 
Teeth were good last time he had dentist, he is due in the next couple of months though so will get him checked earlier to make sure as he has been in worth more than he used to. Will look at that chaff for definate, it sounds like a good alternative to alfalfa :)
 
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