Liver and kidney failure

Liver, due to ragwort poisoning, lethargy, then was head pressing, late that night was staggering around and next day should have been pts.
Next day horse down and unable to get up, pts.
Not mine im glad to say.
If vet has said both, then recovery usually very unlikely if it has progressed to failure.
However, many do recover if diagnosed in time.
 
Liver failure. Itchy legs for a day or two, assumed to be mites but was photosensitivity I guess. Following day, pony was staggering, then went down and was fitting on the floor in the stable, like a full gallop lying down. Very distressing for us and the pony. And very difficult to PTS as had to hold her still and couldn’t take her out of the stable to make collecting her easier afterwards. No idea what her blood work showed, as this was the first indication she had a problem.

Sorry you are having to consider these things.
 
The first thing I noticed about mine (liver failure) was headshaking. He also developed an extreme reaction to a fly spray that I had used for years on him, like the skin was burned and the hair fell out. He was treated with steroids which helped but bloods weren't run at that point. Then over winter he lost weight and became lethargic, I had bloods run and his liver enzymes were terrible. He was given some sort of medication from the vet and I changed his diet to horsehage and got him off the grass at home. The enzymes returned to normal, he put the weight back on but slowly as he didn't have a good appetite. Obviously he wasn't as bad as the other cases mentioned and he did live another 8 years, the cause was never identified.

Sorry you are facing this, it sounds very sad.
 
Mine with relatively mild liver issues lost weight & muscle and was really lethargic and lacking energy. He also had diahorrea just before other signs started. Several other horses at the same yard also developed liver disease so suspected toxin exposure. Responded well to a liver supplement but I didn’t do biopsy (horse massively vet phobic) & he was a huge laminitis risk so didn’t give steroids either (PPID but still had laminitic episodes despite normal cortisol… in hindsight I do think he might have had EMS as well despite being underweight (had been slightly overweight at times before I bought him)

I’ve seen horses with more severe liver issues become collapsed / start having seizure like episodes though.
 
I should add that all my horses had horrendous liver bloodwork last summer, and I thought I would see them all go to liver failure, but all have recovered to normal blood levels now. So raised enzymes don’t necessarily equate to liver failure.
 
I hope it is not as serious as you are suggesting so if the vet thinks there is any hope, do talk to the guys at Trinity Consultants who do some amazing supplements to help liver recovery. Fingers crossed for you.
 
Extreme weight loss over a short time. Personality change - previous independent pony hanging around her companion. Three separate incidents of anaphylactic type breathing troubles. Vet involved fully but unfortunately couldn’t come immediately on the last incidence of breathing struggles when we had decided it was kindest to PTS. My worst incident of owning horses over nearly 50 years. Luckily the local hunt kennels are only 15 mins away so they came out and euthanased her. The vet diagnosed liver problems, probably a tumour. The pony was a rescue. I hope your pony is ok OP.
 
poiuytrewq said:
Ok, I need to have a proper conversation with the vet again tomorrow.
She is not as bad as the above and I’m wondering why it’s been said in quite such a negative way.
I was shocked at the bloods
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if you are happy to PM me the blood work I can let you know how it compares to my guys, and to my friends event horse who died from liver failure (forgot she sent me his bloods when I was panicing about mine).
 
My horse had acute kidney failure 4 years ago. She was very poorly, wouldn’t eat, she lost 50kg in a short space of time. 6 days in Intensive care on fluids and steroids and came home. Ever since she drinks a lot and so is wet in the stable, but otherwise normal. She has chronic kidney failure now, but it is very slow. Careful feeding is essential. She can be fussy with her food. I think ultimately it will be a decision when I can’t maintain her weight, but luckily we aren’t there yet.
 
Definitely have a good chat to the vet.
My current boy had very high liver enzymes when I bought him. It's taken a year but they are now back in normal range (I'm going to run bloods every 6 months to keep a check on it). At no point did he show any physical signs. He may have been a bit lethargic/tired but hard to tell with a weak, freshly backed baby.
Previous horse had raised liver enzymes one spring. He was very lethargic which is why I ran bloods. Never got to the bottom of it, and never retested as ended up retiring him for other reasons - although may have been a symptom of his other issues. He's been retired over a year and doing well.
I have had a Shetland with liver failure. She arrived in the January (was gifted to me as owner couldn't cope anymore). By march I could tell something was wrong - pot bellied but no covering around spine and pelvis, although probably had never been wormed. And she would stand head down, completely zoned out. Would walk around with her nose on the floor too. Bloods came back and vet said liver failure, although never saw the results. Vet warned that she would go downhill quickly and to PTS sooner then later.
She lasted until May, and she went downhill quickly. Started head pressing against the field shelter wall, and her eyes and muzzle became very pink and swollen. PTS the same day.

I have found with my two ridden ones that the blood results can look terrifying but can be reversible.
 
visa_bot said:
My horse had acute kidney failure 4 years ago. She was very poorly, wouldn’t eat, she lost 50kg in a short space of time. 6 days in Intensive care on fluids and steroids and came home. Ever since she drinks a lot and so is wet in the stable, but otherwise normal. She has chronic kidney failure now, but it is very slow. Careful feeding is essential. She can be fussy with her food. I think ultimately it will be a decision when I can’t maintain her weight, but luckily we aren’t there yet.
Click to expand...
Careful feeding how please?
 
I had one with liver damage. It was a long time ago, so my memory is hazy, but he lived another two years after the vet said it was bad enough to PTS. He did have a few colic episodes in that two years, but was happy and symptom free apart from that. I remember having to change his feed, but can't remember why. I can only remember flaked maize!
 
Thanks all!
So, Its the little mare I look after for my neighbours, she's been as my own for the past few years. Lives here and I am her sole carer now, but they love and pay for her.
She is 11hh late 30's has controlled cushings, terrible teeth so lives on what she can eat which is where any diet change becomes difficult. She doesnt really eat hay/haylage, No alfalfa, lots of linseed. She is on half a bute a day due to her age/weather/ground conditions, I felt she needed a little extra help.
She has in fact had a great winter, Her weight is better than its been in years, she eats pretty much everything that comes her way. I'd been really happy with her so this has come as a shock.

Saturday morning I went out to feed her at about 7am, having last checked her at 11pm and all was fine, she has her last feed then. She had choke, but was quiet and not actively choking at that point, It was more the huge mess everywhere and stuff pouring down her nose.
I removed her food and put her out in our turnout pen to keep and eye and see if movement helped or what happened next, thinking either its happend and passed through or it will start up again. Started again so I called the vet (and owners) She was tubed and they did manage to get the tube all the way into her stomach, vet was concerned as to why it had happened and suggested a few next steps.
Owners were there at this point.
Took bloods which the owner drove straight to the clinic for running as the vet said unexplained choke can be a symptom of liver damage.
Pony continued to inprove, later that day I'd been told to give her some food which i did and she ate most of, then turned out for a bit, she had a canter round and made a little fuss about being caught whch i was thrilled about.

Then the phone call, I was in a rush to go do someone elses horses at a certain time and just wasnt expecting the bloods to show anything so i didnt ask the questions I maybe should have.
Options given were
PTS
Keep going as we were bearing in mind she is very sick and old and see what happens/how long we can keep her happy for
Hospitalise her and give fluid treatment/therapy- What even is that? Put her on a drip? or more ?

My initial reaction was she stays here. I don't think transporting her and putting her through that stress at this point is the kindest thing, luckily the owner asked my opinion and instantly agree'd we won't be going down that route.
She spoke to the vet and they agreed to just keep going as we are. Now last week I'd have been perfectly happy with this as I had no idea and thought she was actually doing great, now I'm worried. It also seems odd that no suggestions of changing anything at all by way of improving the situation at home has been suggested or even mentioned.
She's a lucky pony in that I have the ability to give the additional care she needs these days and her owners are happy to fund whatever she may need, so the admission thing and desicion not to go down that route is not a financial decision.

Sorry, bit of an essay there but it adds context to my questions!
 
I think you've made the right call. If she were mine, I'd just keep her diet as simple as you can, so speedibeet and Haycare or grass nuts and let her see out her days with you. I think you'll know if she's suffering and just have it at the back of your mind that you'll need to make the call when she's not ok. I can't see any good reason to PTS if she's happy and doing well now. I'm guessing there's thousands of ponies walking around with shocking numbers. My vet said that damage is cumulative, so lots of old ponies will show some damage.
 
Thank you, That means a lot. It's hard and i felt slight guilt at saying no the the hospitalisation but she totally panics if she can't see my other pony and is a bit wobbly on her tiny legs, I think standing on a lorry and then being put in a weird place alone would be just too much for her. I don't think she see's very well either which is another reason i want continuity and for her to be where she knows.

She has various combo's of speedibeet, fast fibre, linseed, soaked hay nuts. If i can mulch it she will have a go!
I've ordered some milk thistle from Forage plus to add.
 
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