liver damage-diet review please:

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

on behalf of a friend

her elderly pony has raised liver enzymes and has done for a while, vets are trying to fathom exact cause etc.

as far as diet goes she gets:

Overall a Scoop of Alfalfa daily
A beaker measure from Top Spec of Top Spec balancer lite
A scoop/measure of Supplease Gold in her Dinner
A scoop/measure of Ulcer calm in each feed
Now a Scoop/Measure of Gut balancer in each feed

Carrots and an Apple (1/2 in each feed)

how best to tweak to minimise pressure on liver?

swap the alfalfa for something lower protein? is the balancer ok?

I know milk thistle and global herbs restore are good supps to add in.

all help appreciated

 

[sem9999]

Definitely Milk Thistle

 

[Brownmare]

Annoyingly I couldn't get my horse with liver issues to eat milk thistle! However Restore did help as did dosing for liver fluke (ask your vet for the dosage and most sheep farmers will have the stuff you need).

Also, any chemicals you feed will have to be broken down by the liver so try and simplify the diet - I went to straights and fed a combo of unmolassed beet and bran with a handful of timothy chop and linseed.

Another thing that seems to have helped is feeding mycosorb.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

thank you both

can anyone comment on the alfalfa and balancer? I always thought alfalfa was a no go for liver issues? ta

 

[WelshD]

I have a pony that itches, I read that this could be linked somehow to the liver so I stripped his diet back to:

Grass chaff
Coolstance Copra
and a five week course of a supplement called 'Fight Back'

I then added Speedibeet which was ok and micronized linseed which wasn't ok so taken back out again

When the Fight Back ran out I added Milk Thistle and Kossolian

No alfalfa, no carrots, no cereals and no commercial blended feeds, not even the odd pony nut though this was more to eliminate the itching - I dare say that those may well be fine for problem livers just thought it worth a mention

So far so good

 

[Rocky01]

I would cut the balancer and possibly the alfalfa chaff. My boys were okay on Gwf equilibra but are really picking up on st.hippolyt equigard (it looks expensive but you don't feed much so it's not that expensive). I never found out if their livers were okay but I do know that they are both miles better off soya and that is the main component of most balancers (and brewers yeast) now unfortunately.

 

[wingedhorse99]

My horses had liver problems, and I had lots of different views on diet.

There are too different levels of liver diet.

1) One for mild to moderate damage when likely to make full recovery.

2) One for serious damage, where you want to take pressure off liver, and really need to be low protein, and reasonable carbohydrates to ease liver.

A consideration if the overall protein level in the diet – how high is the protein in grass / hay / haylage / bulk of the diet?

If horse isn’t getting much protein in overall diet, I am not sure that the protein in the alfa a / topspec is a problem.

Is the horses under weight?

My vet advised

1) Milk thistle – ground seed, double dose (progressive earth sell this on ebay)
2) Vitamin B (I forget which numbers but must be iron free source – which is v hard to find – I went with Forage plus whose vitamin B supplement ticked all the B numbers required)
3) Vitamin E and selenium (if feed pro hoof from Ebay, will tick off 2, 3, 4)
4) Ensuring all feeds and supplements in diet have no added iron
5) Feeding speedibeet as helps detoxify horse (but not it does contain some iron so mixed views on this)

My vet said unless major damage / elevation, feeding small amounts of quality protein okay.

I switched to lower protein hay, but continued feeding copra and linseed in smaller amounts and added speedibeet in large amounts.

Once bloods improved, I upped the copra and linseed

I think topspec contains added iron, so one to stop?

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

thank you this is all really helpful.

horse is not underweight at all but equally not overweight, bit of a hay tummy (to be expected in 30yo!) but vet has confirmed very healthy.

 

[ester]

Is pony working? Need food?

I would definitely stop the alfalfa (speedibeet instead?), I'd think about the balancer.

re. balancer equimins advanced complete pellets have no iron .

I know when miss_c had trouble hers were/are on fast fibre.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

no,100% retired due to KS,just goes for in hand walks but not enough to be real work

thank you have passed all this back to the owner

 

[tallyho!]

I would drop everything and feed pure grass either as pellets or bagged and some vit e ONLY not selenavitE as that has masses of iron. Selenium from brewers yeast may be ok.

Supplements with NO iron can be found from TEN or Forage Plus.

If you want to rest the liver, you have to cut out everything it metabolises so what wingedhorse99 says is on the right lines.

Call Trinity Consultants and ask for L94 - 10 day detox fluid. Very expensive but very effective. You can't feed much else with it, it literally is a detox.

 

[BBP]

For my pony (GGT of 700-800, should be 50) he is on milk thistle, simple systems Timothy grass chaff and spillers light balancer. I tried forage plus balancer but he refused to touch his feed for the whole time I used it. So low iron, low protein (no alfalfa) his bloods improved over time with no other intervention. Next blood test will be in 2 weeks as a check up, Octobers one was GGT 70. Are his bile readings high or just the enzymes?

 

[JCWHITE]

May be worth a try on EKYRENAL by AUDEVARD.
Test results show much improved figures here.