Liver Damage/ Failure

[sarahjane025]

Hi bit of a long one, i hope someone can help

My cob lost alot of weight over the winter, we thought it was mostly late grass etc, but he seemed to be down, standing looking sorry for himself and not eating at all so i got the vet in who done a rectal, stomach tube and bladder exam and didnt really find anything other then not alot of poo in the stomach. He took bloods and found he had raised liver enzymes, but not above the 'normal' range. So we gave him antibiotics vits and minerals.

Then about 2 weeks later he took a turn for the worst and was walking around aimlessly, in circles and hurting himself..so in a panic called a diffrent vet who said he was in liver failure and didnt think we'd be able to bring him back. He gave him a few shots of diffrent things and i was to give him antibiotics and lacalouse. Which luckily he has improved greatly since then and seems to be getting back to himself.

We've done a biopsy and he said on the results its shows fybrosis. There is no sign of ragwort poisoning, but it appears there may have been some sort of poisoning to start this all off????? He said he could go down again in a few days or 10 years he just cant say. Its a case of trying to help manage it.

I've been told to feed simply with no alfalfa, or mixes and low protien. with no medication other the vitamins and minerals. He can graze on grass with no plants etc and i can ride as long as he seems happy

So after all that i am looking for someone that may know alittle bit more who can inform me a bit more about it all?? Also anyone know a company that sell good minerals and vits that dont cost the earth??? Its a lot to take in and just someone that can explain it in a diffrent term may help loads

Thanks for reading if you got this far

SJ

 

[Brandy]

I'm not at all sure if I can be of any help as may be a little vague. A friends horse also lost weight, became lethargic and generally not himself. She thought the feed needed changing and maybe he neededmore of it, and ended up feeding just vast amounts of hard feed and hay/haylage. No better, worse in fact, Got vet, he had acute liver failure. He also had medication, injections etc adn was injected by the owner with what Ihtink was vitamin B12 (??) over a period of time. We didn;t expect the outcome to be good but he was quite quickly back to his old self.

He had always (for the couple of years I knew him) looked a bit lean - but he is narrow and tall so I just thought he hadn;t filled out.

He now looked a different horse.

Again, no ragwort as far as she knows (not since she owned him from age 2)

Also given same advice re feeding and put him on simple systems which seemed to help. They also do supplements.

Hope your horse improves in the wya my friends did. May be worth ringing round feed companies or posting in NL for better response.

 

[joeanne]

Fibrosis means that the liver has replaced its cells with ones that no longer work.
It also means you have to look after what remains with kid gloves.
Dietry wise, you should phone a feed company (Baileys/Badminton etc) and ask what products they have that would suit your horse.
I'm assuming the vet has been giving B12? You can buy something called Vi-sorbin (my vet says they recommend this to owners who have horses with liver problems).
Liphook are leading the way with diagnosis and treatment. It may be worth asking your vet to forward them your boys notes and getting some really good advice.
They have this page on their site
http://www.liphookequinehosp.co.uk/Liverdisease1.php

 

[thundersprite]

after a 9 month battle my mares just starting to improve for her hepatitis as it wasnt looking good and shes still not out the woods
you want to feed milk thistle or they say trinity consultants liver feed is good but you want to ring and speek to rodger hatch
a low protein diet but i would ring dobson and horrel as they were super for my mare for diet etc, low protein and low oil, but also feed littlen and often if you can
if insured the only thing from the antiboitics and steroids my horse was on that has really seen an improvement was putting her on
hepatosyl and enalapril maleate which if you horse is insured can go through the insurance, but we dont know the cause of my mares hepatitis even with the 2 biopsys shes had, her bloods still are not great now but a few liver profiles has slightly lower which is good and shes gaining weight and looking good now, and soak hay to lower protein as well and keep and eye out on good grass you may need to limit it as with the liver not functioning it can cause lamaitis,
my horse was also on vi-sorbin
my horse kept colicing, pacing field, off her feed , and kept standing head down along with just expolding and would have run in to a brick wall if there was one, and loosing weight
its a long haul good luck with you horse

 

[paulineh]

I was going to suggest Roger Hatch , his number is 01243551766 and the website is www.justbespoke.com

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

2 years ago I took on a rescued gypsy cob mare with appalling liver damage from ragwort. Welfare confiscation case. Long story. Vets said pts as she was in such a bad way but a terrific team turned her around. The team was made up of me, my YO who has extensive experience of rescued horses, my local equine vets, Prof Derek Knottenbelt - an absolute saint and the one whose input truly saved Angel, and lastly D&H Head Nutritionist Dr Theresa Holland.

The liver does so many essential things within the body. The ones you need to know about are helping with digestion, filtering toxins out of the blood, and helping the blood clot. If the liver gets an infection then it can recover the function again - not exactly regenerating itself but as close to that as makes no difference. But some poisoning - like ragwort - destroys the liver so that it cannot regenerate. Another thing you need to know about livers is that as long as there is about 25% - 30% remaining liver function, you may not see any signs of liver damage/failure in the horse. It's only when the damage hits 70 - 75% that you start to see the familiar signs. Prof Knottenbelt told me that with over 76% damage, the disease is always fatal. So this means that from the moment symptoms become apparent to the point of no return is a TINY difference. So you need to act very fast.

As your vets and others have told you, you need to put your horse immediately on a very low protein diet. But all animals need some protein, so the protein your horse DOES have must be the highest quality you can afford. This makes the work of the remaining liver easier. Next, NO conditioning feeds or oils EVER. The liver won't be able to break down the fats. All conditioning feeds are high in oils. Next, add Yea Sac, which (a) is a tiny appetite stimulant but more importantly (b) aids hind gut digestion which is compromised in a horse with liver damage. Next add Milk Thistle which has been shown to support the liver in horses AND in people! Dodson & Horrell do a very good quality and reasonably priced dried Milk Thistle. Angel was on Alfalfa (not the added oil one), wet speedibeet, Yea Sac and Milk Thistle. Ad lib haylage in the winter. The final thing to know about damaged livers is that they cannot break chlorophyl down properly. This is what makes plants green. So the compounds circulate in the horse's blood and will attract the sunlight as if he was a great big leaf. So you have to stable liver damaged horse's during the day from about May to September or they can suffer terrible sunburn from acute phototsensitivity. Angel was black and white so suffered very badly on the areas where her skin was white. When she first came to me it looked as if she'd pushed her entire head into a bonfire. Oh, and feeds should be broken down into as little and often as you can manage - that helps the liver too.

After 18 months, Angel's liver function was stable and there was enough left for her to live a careful normal life, with the diet and management as above. She was backed at aged 12 and went to her 1st ever dressage test 5 weeks afterwards and came FIRST! So don't give up on your horse. A final word of advice - loads of tlc and thoughtful nursing will make your horse happy but don't treat him as an invalid and absolutely NO CRYING round him or he will pick up on your vibes and get anxious. As hard as it is, save the tears for away from his stable.

Miracles can happen with liver damaged horses hun, as I hope Angel's story has shown. But this next bit needs to be said too. Symptoms of liver damage include loss of weight, loss of appetite, loss of interest in life, lethargy, drowsiness, sometimes jaundice, and standing in corners pressing the head against a wall. Toxins build up in the brain and begin to cause nerological symptoms. More serious end-stage symptoms can include staggering, blindness, unusual vocalisation, self harm and harm to the owner. Watch your horse well, love him and nurse him with all your heart...but watch for him telling you enough is enough and be brave enough to help him if he needs you to. Remember, better a week too soon than a day too late.

My thoughts are with you hun. PM if you need to xxxxx

 

[sarahjane025]

Thanks for your replies

I keep finding conflicting advice...grrr

My vet said not to feed milk thistle as it actaully does more harm then good to a liver like my boy's??

He has also advised me to feed him veg oil to help keep weight on, but have found alot of people saying no oil?

I am gonna give a few feed companies a call and see what their advice is. Also gonna get some vi sorbin.

With regards to soaking hay does that take all the goodness out of they hay or just the protien? He is stabled at the moment whilst we can get his field thoroughly tidied up with a fine tooth comb (like a mother with a newborn at the moment) finding it hard to keep his weight on at the moment.

 

[3DE]

Barley fed in excess can cause liver problems. If you feed any barley I'd suggest cutting it out totally.

 

[Cuffey]

Soaking hay lowers sugars--for a laminitic
Cant imagine proteins are water soluble--so only soak if hay dusty

Read Box_of_Frogs reply very closely some vg advice and personal experience there that worked

 

[mrussell]

I am very interested in what horse feeds folk used with liver-damaged horses.

We bought a very poorly exracer 2 winters ago, his white socks were covered in sores, he had the squits for weeks and was very lethargic. He balanced out over the summer but still suffers from lethargy, depression and is a poor dooer.

It mut be fate that this subject was on the front page of the forum !

Ive fed an alfalfa based diet to him for the past year and hes almost become more withdrawn with a variety of foot problems ranging from fractures to collapsing walls. He can be manic some moments and then asleep the next. Poor coat etc etc.

Hes just started on Silver Lining Herbs Liver and Kidney powders.

Been trying to surf for low protein feeds and so far can only find A&P Fast Fibre and Honey chaff in the low protein stakes. Hes not a good doer.

Any one found a mix that works well ?

 

[JaneyB]

It's often unknown why horses suffer with liver disease. It often starts as an infection, unlike humans the horse doesn't have a gall bladder, so bacteria is generally free to transfer from the stomach to the liver quite freely. Often liver infections / disease go unnoticed in horses for quite some time as the side effects are fairly insignificant to start with, e.g. loss of performance, slightly inhibited movement.

If there isn't any infection but just damage to the liver then anti-inflammatory steroids should be considered. Also Equistro do an excellent liver tonic called legaphyton.

Andy Durham at Liphook is very good in this area.

 

[Timmy takoda]

My 28 year old Exmoor also has liver damage, the enzyme tests came back as ragwort poisoning, however there was none in the field. He's been with us for a year now and this spring I found mare's tail/horse tail in the paddock he was in. You usually find the plant on less fertilized ground - idea horse grazing really.

On that basis I would agree with all the advice provided below and go and check your fields for any signs of mare's tail which unlike ragwort, IS palatable and WILL be eaten by horses and other livestock.

The wee man is very itchy just now and I notice he's more attractive to the midgies that the other horses in the field, so I have to assume he's giving off a different scent. I'm about to start him on B Sure so perhaps that will help. Has anyone got any experience of treating the itching side of the liver damage without using sudocreme to cover any raw bits as he's now become sensitive to that. I'm about to try germolene as its got a local anaesthetic. Thoughts?

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Timmy T - the problem with ragwort poisoning is that the damage is cumulative so the harm could have been done years ago. It then doesn't take much for a horse that only has a tiny bit of liver function left, to be tipped over the edge into liver failure. I doubt if your ned tastes different to the midges, it's just that his whole immune system will be struggling because of the toxins circulating in his blood so he will not be able to cope/heal as well as other neds. B Sure or Yea Sac will help your ned as it aids hind gut digestion. Not sure what colour your boy is but a lot of the itching you mention is the end result of having toxins circulating in the blood. Some of it may be impossible to treat as it will be happening internally as it were. But the itchiness caused by photosensitivity on skin that is acting like a giant leaf can be greatly helped by stabling the horse from about 9am to 7pm all through the summer. Even on cloudy days, there are enough UV rays about to trigger sunburn and/or insane itching in a liver damaged horse. There's no sun screen product that can adequately protect a horse with acute photosensitivity - they have to be stabled out of the sun. To get the right feed for your horse I'd recommend contacting D&H and explaining the liver problems your ned has. They are working closely with Prof K on ragwort issues and will be able to give you a tailored diet. Steer clear of anything with added oil as a damaged liver cannot break this down.