liver damage ! :(

[kaya]

hello a few weeks ago i found out my 4 year old has a very bad case of liver damage, rocco came from jamie gray ! i have always had trouble with his weight, when i had the vet down to look and his lameness we got blood tests taken, and it turns out that he has liver damage, the vet said that his liver is the same as a horse who has been in a field with ragwort ! even tho roccos is to do with worms
anyway im thinking of sending him to the horse trust . has anyone ever sent there horse to the horse trust ?

 

[amage]

Why are you thinking of sending him to the horse trust? Has your vet discussed the possibility of recovery with you? If he won'y recover then at the age of 4 it would be a much kinder option to PTS. All horse charities are suffering in this economic climate and I would be surprised if they would take on a horse just because it has liver damage? are you unable to care for him...if so then they may take him on?

 

[kaya]

because i cant afford to pay for all his scans and stuff, soo the horse trust could do that, and then maybe they could find a home for him where he could be a family pet, he is the most kindest horses anyone has ever meet and he has already had a rubbish life (coming from jamie gray ) and i just want him to be happy because i lovee him !

 

[amandap]

This is one of the perils of taking on a 'rescue horse' I'm afraid. You really need to expect that it's going to cost money either a little or a lot to help them.
In the meantime try global herbs restore and take some dietry advice from a dietition. Severe liver problems can require low protein diets etc.

 

[amage]

I doubt they will take him for that reason! They have a pdf on their website about resposible rehoming which specifically states that most equine charities are unable to take horses from private owners!
http://www.homeofrestforhorses.co.uk/files/ResponsibleReHoming.pdf

At the age of four, with health issues you may seriousy need to consider what the kindest option for him is

 

[Darkly_Dreaming_Dex]

It cost about £1500 for all Dex's scans/biopsies/blood tests and medication to date..ongoing expenses are £80 a month for supplements. I will have to cover this once the insurance runs out. He is worth every penny, especially as he is such a fantastic hunter as well as best friend BUT if i couldnt afford/claim off insurance then i certainly wouldnt try to dump him on someone else- i would take a deep breath and be a responsible horse owner and call the hunt to take him away.
Harsh but true..

 

[chestnut cob]

Sorry to be harsh but if you can't afford to pay for the investigations and treatments then a) you should not have bought a horse in the first place, and b) you should not be trying to pass him on to someone else. Why would a charity, who by their very nature will be struggling for money, want to take on a horse from a private owner which is going to cost them a fortune to put right and maintain?

Do you have insurance? If so then your insurance should cover this. If not and the horse isn't going to come right, I'm afraid to say you ought to consider having him PTS. Much as you want him to have a nice life, it may be better for you to secure his future by having him PTS than to risk him being passed around for the rest of his life. People do not want to take on a horse as a pet, they are too big and too expensive. Someone who just wants a pet can buy a dog.

 

[maggiesmum]

Why don't you try him on global herbs restore? We suspect My TB has some liver damage, poss caused from his racing days, I haven't had all the tests done but put him on a long term course of restore while deciding what to do and he's become a very different horse.
Might not work and i'm certainly not recommending that you ignore your vet but I defo think that the power of herbs is very underrated.

 

[orin]

you dont always need biopsys why not try changing diet etc and then just see how he is doing using blood tests?
ive had two ponies with liver disease (one of unknown cause and one due to immune disease) and they both had biopsys but even if they had/hadnt had the biopsy the treatment is still the same. ask your vet for the cheaper option.
and dodson and horrell white thistle is good for liver ;-)
feel free to pm me if you need more info

 

[riding_high]

my horse has liver damage from liver fluke. he got liver fluke in may 2007 and he was very ill with it, the vets did blood tests and then they did a liver biopsy, it wasn't that expensive to do and worth it in my opinion as it told me what caused the liver damage and also how bad it was.

he was given an injection to counteract the liver fluke and within a few weeks he was pretty much back to his old self. the vet told me that he will always have a bit of liver damage but it won't affect him.

last year he had blood tests taken for something else and it showed his liver was still badly damaged, he's on milk thistle and i let him take things at his own pace. he looks happy and healthy but i am always aware of the damage he has to his liver.

in otherwords why not ask the vet to do a biopsy and find out how badly damaged it is first, if it's really bad then maybe consider having him pts, try him on milk thistle as well.

 

[abbieandfiona]

Do you not have insurance?? Its a bit unfair to give your horse away due to being ill to a trust. Liver damage is not the worst thing ever, my mare had liver damage and after being careful with her diet etc she is now ok and didnt cost lots of money to put right.

 

[MissTyc]

A person I know sold a beautiful healthy pony to a perfect family. 6 weeks later he got terribly ill and died of acute liver failure It was traumatic for everyone and the girl still asks herself if there was anything she could have done to predict/prevent this outcome. Similarly, the family did all they could to save the pony but it was too late.

I'm saying this because death from liver failure is traumatic and if your pony's liver is truly shot then he might live for years as a healthy pony, but when an infection or anything weakens his immune system, then he could go over the edge in the most horrific way possible. Is it fair to expect a horse charity to pick up this tab if there is no real long term hope for a future for this horse? Obviously if it's manageable with treatment that would be great, but again - expensive. Ultimately no one would look down on you for calling it a day before the pony suffers too much.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Kaya, I'm sorry but are you for real or have you just posted this for a laugh???

As others have already said, every single horse charity in the land is bursting at the seams. What on earth makes you think that if you buy a horse and then find out it's ill, then you can just pass it on to someone else to deal with. Where exactly do you think their money comes from to treat and care for the horses they have already got? I don't know if you know but there was a MASSIVE united push on this Forum when the Amersham horror hit the headlines. It was known as Operation Esther after the tiniest and youngest equine to survive that horror - a donkey foal just a few weeks old - that they called Esther. From all around the country, groups of us worked staggeringly long hours to get publicity to raise funds to form convoys from all round Britain to take enormous amounts of feed, bedding and hard cash to the rescue charities that took in the survivors from Amersham. The convoy from S Wales and S West of England took a convoy to the Horses Trust and there was thousands and thousands of £ worth of supplies and cash. Caring people donated feed and money for the Trust to help the Amersham horses and ponies that, through no fault of their own, were treated so appallingly by Jamie Gray.

Those convoys did NOT work as hard as they did so that ordinary owners can escape the obligations that come with ownership of any animal. The only way you could pass your horse to The Horse's Trust is if you have him on loan from them in the first place.

Sorry to be so blunt but ye gods, get real. 3 years ago I rescued a confiscated gipsy cob mare with appalling liver damage caused by knowing negligence. Livers damaged by ragwort poisoning cannot regenerate but livers damaged by other conditions CAN. To give your horse a chance of survival, change his diet immediately to a very low protein diet. A damaged liver cannot digest protein very well. All animals need some protein but make sure the protein your horse does get is the highest quality you can afford. Ring D&H feed helpline for advice. They're wonderful. Then break his feeds down into as many tiny ones as you can since this will also help his liver. Then buy him a tub of Yea Sac as this will help with his hind gut digestion, which is often compromised in liver damaged horses. Also, importantly, buy him a big tub of Milk Thistle (D&H do a very good one) as this has been shown to help support the liver while it recovers. Do NOT feed any conditioning mixes or oil of any kind. None of this is too expensive. Save your money on expensive scans and blood tests. If you follow the above diet and management, you may be able to support your horse's liver enough for it to recover. I imagine if it's a worm problem, you're on top of that.

If the liver is already too far damaged to be helped to recover, watch out for the following symptoms: lethargy, weight loss, loss of interest in life, depression, terrible sunburn in the summer, jaundice, standing in corners pressing the head against a wall, blindness, strange behaviours, self harm. If you can't even try to help your poor horse in ways that don't cost much more than ordinary feeding, then do the decent thing and have him pts with dignity and compassion. Good grief woman.

 

[Llwyncwn]

This is a wind up right?

 

[Piccy]

One of mine had a liver problem a few years ago with all the tests and bits and bobs came to a total bill of around £1300, Milk Thistle and Echincea were two of the supplements used he has come right and still gets Milk Thistle after every wormer and every routine injection etc and has no problems at all. He was also four at the time, some vets do payment plans if you have no insurance, as others have said you dont always need all the expensive options! Speak to your vets and see what options you have before anything else

 

[LizzyLou]

Just to add to the advice on Milk Thistle that others have given. D & H Milk Thistle is also available as a liquid tincture. This is absorbed more quickly and so is great in acute conditions such as yours. D & H don't advertise it widely but if you telephone them (they have a helpline number available on their web site) they will tell you about it. You can order it through any D & H supplier.

A damaged liver can regenerate as long as it is not more than 70% damaged. I know of horses who have been diagnosed with liver damage and written off by vets, and milk thistle has saved them.

If he recovers, it's a good idea to keep him on a maintenance level of the dried milk thistle. It's not that expensive.

 

[amandap]

Second using the tincture of milk thistle.

 

[Alec Swan]

Box_Of_Frogs,

you are entirely right, sadly. It's always been my understanding that Liver Fluke, and as a layman who keeps ruminant livestock I can speak with some experience, is virtually incurable. Ridding the liver of the Fluke would be relatively simple I would think, but the damage done to the liver will take many years to fully recover, if in fact, it ever does.

Strangely, it seems, when a human donates half of their liver to another, then the donors liver will regrow, in a matter of a few weeks. Damage caused by Fluke, or Ragwort poisoning seems to be chronic. We worm farm livestock against Fluke on a regular basis, and I suppose that with equines, the damage isn't noticed until it's too late.

OP, don't dump your poor horse onto a struggling charity. Do the right thing for the animal, and I feel sure that you will know what that is.

Alec.

 

[riding_high]

when my boy got liver fluke we had no idea what was wrong until after a biopsy. we moved him to a new field on the friday, he was a bit tired after the ride (about 6 miles, nothing more than normal), on the saturday he was huffing and blowing, sweaty, on the sunday he looked so much older, was breathing heavy, sweating, could barely move. vet came out and thought it might be colic but it wasn't.
the next day a different vet came out and took more blood samples and again some more on the wednesday, by the weds night i got a call from the vet saying that my horse had liver failure/damage going on so wanted to do a biopsy, the results came back as liver fluke.

the vet gave him a dose of what the cows normally get (can't remember what it's called now). within a week i could see him being perkier, less aged and not breathing so heavy.

i'm with a different vet now and showed him a picture of my horse when he was at his worst and the vet can't believe it's the same horse.

don't pass a horse on to charities, if the liver is so badly damaged then kinder to pts, but there are other options to try first, such as the milk thistle. surely it's got to be worth a go.
your vet should be able to advise you on options anyway.

 

[scarlet jacket]

hello a few weeks ago i found out my 4 year old has a very bad case of liver damage, rocco came from jamie gray ! i have always had trouble with his weight, when i had the vet down to look and his lameness we got blood tests taken, and it turns out that he has liver damage, the vet said that his liver is the same as a horse who has been in a field with ragwort ! even tho roccos is to do with worms
anyway im thinking of sending him to the horse trust . has anyone ever sent there horse to the horse trust ?

it would be interesting to know the levels of the blood results, and if a liver profile was done as a normal profile may not be enough, only an indicator. if fianances are a prob i would adjust his diet to low protein, start on milk thistle suppliment possibly some prednisalone and re take bloods in a month or so.