Liver Disease - is there hope ?

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Extreme247

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My horse has been suffering from liver disease since July last year. (Cause still unknown) He's been on multiply drugs since then and has been though 2 biopsy's.

He's never looked poorly or showed any symptoms of liver disease other than being slightly wobbly when he was first diagnosed.

My questions is have other horses fully recovered from this? I feel that's its 1 steps forward and 3 back. He is in lovely condition, lovely shine to his coat. Lately he seems a bit flat to work, however I do know the warm weather does affect him.

Am I being paranoid that's he's relapsing ?

Thank you for any advice
 
What are the blood results? I posted on here about a month ago when my mare came back with elevated liver enzymes and was oddly comforted by people replying that they'd had much worse results and their horses had recovered.

Apparently there's been a fair few problems this year mainly due to last year's hay crop. Mould spores suspected, so I've started feeding mycosorb A and on last blood test everything was improving.
 
During the summer they had gone from 490, 170, 147 then 600 which is when we started doing biopsy's

His last biopsy was in February, he's due another June/July to make sure the liver is still on the road to recovery.

He's been on haylege since November. My other horse who he lives out with was also diagnosed with high liver enzymes although shower no symptoms. His last blood test showed normal results. He was unmediated. I don't understand how this affected one more than the other.
 
I'm sorry I am just in the early stages of this problem so can't answer your question. My 7yo new forest seemed fine. but in one day his socks burnt terribly. they are white but have never burnt before even in the hight of summer. the scabs also got very 'angry', when normally on the rare occurrence of something like a nick to his skin he heals easily with a dash of sudrocrem. he also just seemed a little quiet, but the burns were probably pretty sore. vet immediately asked for bloods which showed very high liver enzymes, suggesting a long term chronic issue, which may of been flared up by something. waiting biopsy results. on a strong supplement. my other 2 horses have been in same field, same food and hay. unfortunately my mare developed sweet itch recently but this appears completely coincidental. he has shown no other signs: not off his food, no weird behaviour ect.

I think it is a problem that can sometimes be really hard to find the cause of, which is frustrating. my friend knows a pony who apparently years ago was in a bad field and was seen to eat ragwort. at the time nothing came of it and he was quickly moved, but years later he moved to my friends and appeared to have a virus, then became subdued, off his food, bloods done and showed very bad levels. but with supplements he is still going strong years later, after initial results suggested his function may be so poor that it would be months at most.

the liver is an amazing organ, so I am hoping my boy will be fine, but the not knowing for sure is hard.
my boy was a 'runt' of a foal, given as an extra when first owner bought a new forest filly off the forest. he was wormy and weak and they were not even sure he would survive at 6 months. but he then flourished. however, I wonder if he could of had liver damage all those years ago, which has only become clear now.

I would of thought if he had initially improved and you have continued to treat him the same that a relapse would be unlikely. but I can see you concerns. it is easy however to get paranoid.
 
Thank you for your advice.

I have the vet coming out tomorrow, just to put my mind at rest.

I find it hard as my horse and never showed any of the normal signs of liver disease. Other than he was wobbly when first diagnosed.

You would never know how poorly he's been.

When I bought him, I worm counted him and he had a count of over 3000! so maybe it could be a trigger? They confirmed it wasn't ragwort related during his first biopsy
 
yes I think things like extremely high worm counts can be related. my pony had this as a foal.
I also think it is a luck of the draw situation, as I have know horses exposed to toxins or grazing on rubbish who are never sick and horses who appear to live on pristine pasture who get ill.
 
There is definitely hope! My little horse blood tested high for liver enzymes for over 2 years. I’ve written plenty of posts on here about it. His GGT spent a lot of time up around 800. Admittedly his bile was always normal so I never worried too much. I just gave him easy days when he felt a bit flat, worked him harder when he was full of beans (most of the time!) and fed milk thistle. I never did any biopsies with him as I decided it wouldn’t change anything treatment wise. If bile had been high I might have done antibiotics etc.

Since then he has also had a sacroiliac injury, ulcers, hayfever and has RER. But this was him last year, looking and feeling fabulous and happier than ever.
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My mare was blood tested in February and her GGT levels were 592. My vet said it could be any number of things and that we would most likely never find the cause. She had 10 days of antibiotics, liver fluke treatment, a liver supplement and a liver tonic. She absolutely refused to touch the liver tonic so i put her on milk thistle powder. She was retested 8 weeks later and her GGT levels have gone down to 192. She is still on the milk thistle and the liver supplement from the vet and she will be retested again in another 4 weeks and hopefully her GGT level will be back to normal.
 
We had horses with liver issues last year - suspect the hay merchant - all horses bloods are now normal.

All I can say is check pastures - have your hay checked for ragwort. Make sure no other issues with shrubs - no micro toxins - sycamore etc etc. Feed as much good stuff for the liver, nettles - milk thistle - liquorice etc.
Put onto haylage and recheck bloods in a month, that is what I did
 
Agree with changing the forage if you can. Believe mine was caused by mycotoxins/spores on the grass and subsequently in our hay following a couple of wet years.
 
Meant to say that my mare never showed any signs of liver damage....appetite was good (too good!), no dull coat etc.

I was advised to put her on a low protein diet, less than 10%.
 
I'm now 10 months down the line, I've changed everything. Hard feed, gone from hay to hayledge, and grazing. He's been on medication since the start. At one point to give his liver the best chance he was one 130 tablets a day. And bless him, he's eaten everything. He was on liver tonic for a long time then refuse to eat it. So moved him on to milk thistle that he loves. Some days I feel like I'm winning and other days I still feel like I'm slowly loosing. I'm very lucky that he's always looked in great condition, however unlucky as its so hard to tell that something is still not quite right. Its only recently that he seems more quite than usual. Where do I go from here ?
 
We wouldn’t have known at all if he didn’t have a white nose, at 25 he’s mostly spent the last 18 months since dx bouncing about all over the place :p
 
Did your biopsy show significant fibrosis? Just had results back for my pony and this has been the result. He is going on a high dose of steroids to try and bring inflammation down. Just finding it hard to process the information and it is still not a certain answer.

She says the toxin he could of been exposed to in the last couple of months (he was away for 3 months somewhere else so I have told them as could of been there, especially as my other 2 appear fine) as raised liver enzymes suggest recent toxin triggering inflammation.
But the amount of fibrosis then suggests more long term damage too.

Not sure how long significant fibrosis takes to form and how much is completely damage is irreversible? I think it is suggesting damage a while ago and then recent toxin damage too. So not great news. Also as a new forest good doer on steroids I will have to be extra careful of lami risk.

Ultimately just have to treat and see how it goes. My low maintenance cheap pony is now my high maintenance expensive pony!
 
Not sure a read-across from dogs is valid, but....

My lab had hugely raised liver levels 3 years ago, a biopsy showed the liver was massively cirrhosed.

Prognosis was very poor indeed, but he responded brilliantly to steroids and a supplement with milk thistle and SAMe and had 3 great years on full form.

Sadly lost him last week, we're not sure whether as a result of the liver - levels were high at the end but there was also a mass and kidney failure.

So I would say be cautious, but certainly WAY too early to give up hope!!!

Every digit crossed for you.
 
I think the liver and its damage is relatively similar across mammals. My pony is only 7 and other than some hideously burned socks all of a sudden and seeming a little 'off' for a few days, he looks the picture of health. I guess the unknowing is just part of it and at least it isn't a prognosis of 'definitely' only has a certain amount of time. But ultimately fibrosis I think is irreversible so he will be treading a fine line with having just about enough to function for hopefully as long as possible.

hijacking your thread a bit OP but think we are in a similar boat
 
My pony does have fibrosis. When the first biopsy was taken they measure the liver out of 14, anything over 7 and the days are numbered. Mine was a 4. After lots of drugs to try and stop the spread of the fibrosis we redid the biopsy and the liver has gone from a 4 to a 2 so all in right direction. 3 biopsy is due in July.

Other than my pony was slightly wobbly the day he was diagnosed. he's not shown any other symptoms
 
I wasn't given a score by my vet, just that it was significant and bad enough to warrant high doses of steroids (especially due to being a new forest good doer and the time of year we wanted to avoid steroids if it turned out to be low enough damage that we could just supplement, as laminitis risk is significant)
done nearly 3 weeks of steroids now I think and will re-test bloods in another week to see if the enzyme levels have reduced. like yours, he really shows very little symptoms. his burnt socks to seem to finally be healing up as well. but I am getting paranoid about laminitis. he is on a track with 2 others and is only on feed to get drugs in, although have had to add a bit of linseed to get him to eat it. in on a little bit of hay on high uv days due to his photosensitivity.
 
How did both your ponies get on in the end? Think liver disease is rife again this year, perhaps due to the wet weather over past 18 months. We have three on our yard suffering, mine included. And now testing the rest. Could be a virus, maybe the grass……..we have ruled out hay now and grass being tested so awaiting results. Biopsy showed no fibrosis but vet advised steroids, since being on the steroids horse has got more unwell which is now making me think virus?! Such a worry. Would be good to hear how both of yours got on in the end 🤞🏻
 
With all the wet weather I would not want to rule out liver fluke. Horses often test negative for this, even when carrying a lot of immature fluke, as they are not the natural hosts.
 
Charrose77 said:
How did both your ponies get on in the end? Think liver disease is rife again this year, perhaps due to the wet weather over past 18 months. We have three on our yard suffering, mine included. And now testing the rest. Could be a virus, maybe the grass……..we have ruled out hay now and grass being tested so awaiting results. Biopsy showed no fibrosis but vet advised steroids, since being on the steroids horse has got more unwell which is now making me think virus?! Such a worry. Would be good to hear how both of yours got on in the end 🤞🏻
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Hi, sorry to hear your horse is unwell. Both of mine are very well thank you. I had one retested (the worst effected) in January and his liver is the best its ever looked. There is hope out there, but it is a long struggle and will require constant management for the rest of their lives
 
Interested in this, I have a 26 year old Exmoor who was diagnosed with high liver enzymes in March. She refuses to eat any supplements, steroids or tonics. I have two bottles of liver tonic which cost a fortune! I am now wondering whether it was the hay causing it, ours was baled a day early due to rain being forecast and was quite musty. I didn’t realise this may be a cause. Her only symptom was she was quiet one day so I got a general blood test done.
 
Many years ago there was a pony on my yard with what turned out to be ragwort poisoning. There wasn't much to try back then, owner tried global herbs restore and did get significant improvements in her bloods but she was too far gone to save.

I wouldn't suggest using this alone but it's unlikely to hurt.
 
Extreme247 said:
Hi, sorry to hear your horse is unwell. Both of mine are very well thank you. I had one retested (the worst effected) in January and his liver is the best its ever looked. There is hope out there, but it is a long struggle and will require constant management for the rest of their lives
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Good to hear they have recovered. Yes I am starting to realise what a long road this is going to be. Thank you for letting me know yours are fine now, good to know x
 
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Domirati said:
Interested in this, I have a 26 year old Exmoor who was diagnosed with high liver enzymes in March. She refuses to eat any supplements, steroids or tonics. I have two bottles of liver tonic which cost a fortune! I am now wondering whether it was the hay causing it, ours was baled a day early due to rain being forecast and was quite musty. I didn’t realise this may be a cause. Her only symptom was she was quiet one day so I got a general blood test done.
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Yes Rosa stopped eating her feed with that tonic in (Hepalyte) as did the other horse on the yard who has it, I have bought her L94 from trinity consultants and she loves that!
 
Hi, another person here with liver problems desperately seeking an answer. My 23yo has been suffering for 2 weeks now and is looking rather sad and poorly. I was away on holiday for a week and came home to him looking uncomfortable leaning in the field when grazing. Vet did X-rays initially and then bloods where his results showed poor. He has been happy eating grass and Timothy haylage (as suggested by vet who was concerned it may have been the hay). His liver enzymes are at 384 on the second test and I am at a complete loss. His SAA at 349. He is now showing to be slightly anemic and his iron and RBC are low, please can anyone help me I’m absolutely devastated that I may have to make a decision I don’t want to make and will try anything.
 
anon1997 said:
Hi, another person here with liver problems desperately seeking an answer. My 23yo has been suffering for 2 weeks now and is looking rather sad and poorly. I was away on holiday for a week and came home to him looking uncomfortable leaning in the field when grazing. Vet did X-rays initially and then bloods where his results showed poor. He has been happy eating grass and Timothy haylage (as suggested by vet who was concerned it may have been the hay). His liver enzymes are at 384 on the second test and I am at a complete loss. His SAA at 349. He is now showing to be slightly anemic and his iron and RBC are low, please can anyone help me I’m absolutely devastated that I may have to make a decision I don’t want to make and will try anything.
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I’m very sorry to hear about your boy, that’s a horrible thing to come home to. We ended up having a virologist out last week and she is absolutely convinced it’s a virus…….even though all the vets have aid that is unlikely (she did say that is exactly what they would say!). And I would say in your boys case the fact that his SAA is 349 you may also consider virus for him. Don’t panic, Rosa’s blood were truly awful for 6 weeks, her GGT was 964 last week, but the blood test we did this week has showed she has improved hugely in just 7 days. What are his Bile Acids? I believe that is the one you need to worry about more than the GGT. There seems to be a lot of liver problems this year, you are definitely not alone. I have my Rosa onto something from Trinity consultants called L94, I can’t tell you if that is what has helped but I would definitely say it’s worth a try. Also call Simon at Trinity and email him your blood test, he will give you good info, very very helpful. If you are not on any medication I would put him on a good vitamin E supplement (feedmark do one or the best one is Dura E, but it’s expensive) and perhaps some milk thistle, I had been told to hold off the milk thistle until she finished her steroids. Now, if it is a virus, rather than forage (which is usually the most likely cause) steroids suppress the immune system, I have found Rosa has picked up since coming off the steroids. But talk to your vet and be guided by them, I am no expert only sharing our journey.
 
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