Liver enzymes and ulcers?

Grey Haven said:
So this one he's on sounds ok?
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It does sound ok but the only thing I'd be concerned about if you wanted to cut out the fat is the linseed oil coating? (I wonder why they do that?)

The one I buy is just literally dry grass in a bag.
 
Most of the molasses free chaffs seem to have a oil coating. I wondered was it acting as some sort of preservative.

After the warm weather here this weekend I've now had to implement my lami season regime too. So now I'm trying to manage liver issues, possible ulcers and laminitis issues all at the same time. Not sure how I'm going to manage this
 
I'm juggling Liver issues, a positive EPSM diagnosis - where I can't feed him the traditional high oil and it appears the ALCAR is not working - and possible hind gut issues!

The hind gut is the only thing I haven't tackled. Going to speak to the vet (who I'm sure thinks I'm paranoid and I'd never discovered google) - about just keeping him on his simple high fibre diet (chaff, vit e powder, milk thistle) plus hay and turnout and trial him on something like rite gut for a month to see if that helps with the bloating and maybe the unwillingness to work through from behind!!

My head hurts!! And so does my wallet!
 
Does sound very stressful and it is because I've been there myself...

I think what I have learnt over the years is less is def more. Horses are simple things that thrive on practically nothing (unless it's a tb of course!! mostly...) I think these issues are a symptom of over-management.

What I did was turn my laminitic out (yes, on grass!) with a herd of boys in a massive field with no food, no nothing and just let him get on with it! My friends were shocked and thought I was trying to kill him!!!! I literally turned a blind eye. 10 months later (and a bit of hard work) he did a clear round xc with not even any shoes on.
 
LiffWee93
Can I ask what feed you use please. I am sure 2 of my horses have had mycotoxin poisoning from the feed and this has given them stomach ulcers (scoped and treated ) and hind gut problems (back to hospital this Friday for ultrasound and biopsy). My horses bloods were ok except raised liver enzymes at the top end of the normal range.


LiffWee93 said:
Ours has just had two biopsies and has been diagnosed with a mycotoxin infection and displayed in his blood levels as close to ragwort poisoning.. had to change his entire diet to try and eliminate what has caused it.. could be feed, water, pasture, hay/hhaylage.. hes on steroids and continuing a low protein/oil diet xx
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Grey Haven said:
I'm juggling Liver issues, a positive EPSM diagnosis - where I can't feed him the traditional high oil and it appears the ALCAR is not working - and possible hind gut issues!

The hind gut is the only thing I haven't tackled. Going to speak to the vet (who I'm sure thinks I'm paranoid and I'd never discovered google) - about just keeping him on his simple high fibre diet (chaff, vit e powder, milk thistle) plus hay and turnout and trial him on something like rite gut for a month to see if that helps with the bloating and maybe the unwillingness to work through from behind!!

My head hurts!! And so does my wallet!
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The liver / EPSM thing is definitely tricky. I started on ALCAR, 24/7 turnout and controlled exercise about 5 weeks ago and have had great results already. AST is normal for the first time in 2 years (admittedly at the high end but I'll still take it, it's a dramatic difference from 5 weeks ago). I'm still waiting on his liver results but if they are high I will try adding in mycosorb.

All mine gets now is a tiny bucket feed of spillers lite balancer, about 40g of micronised linseed, ALCAR, prokalm calmer and milk thistle for his liver. Then he is strip grazed and gets a little hat morning and evening and before exercise. In 5 weeks he is less tense, I've had no explosions, no losing the plot, and he is slimmer than normal even though he is doing less work.

Grey haven how much work and turnout does your horse get?

I should also say my horse struggled to work from behind, especially in canter. Always tried very hard but always struggled. At the same time as his EPSM diagnosis he was also diagnosed with a sacroiliac injury. I'm really hoping he will be a new horse once I get on top of both.
 
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I should clarify, he gets a little hay. I can't imagine a little hat would do much for gut health at all!
 
Grey Haven said:
My boy genetically tested positive for EPSM type 1 in October - he's been on the ALCAR diet. But he had liver issues before that, so I'm not sure if the liver issue set off the EPSM or not. Also I did wonder if liver enzymes and muscle enzymes were linked. Funnily enough I soaked his hay in a spring water source piped into our farm (DIY Livery) and I did wonder if it was maybe heavy metal content? I'm having my hay analysed for mineral and nutritional content - if that yields nothing then water will be next port of call!
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Type one PSSM is genetic so he will have always had this. Whether the liver issue is connected I don't know.
 
tallyho! said:
Does sound very stressful and it is because I've been there myself...

I think what I have learnt over the years is less is def more. Horses are simple things that thrive on practically nothing (unless it's a tb of course!! mostly...) I think these issues are a symptom of over-management.

What I did was turn my laminitic out (yes, on grass!) with a herd of boys in a massive field with no food, no nothing and just let him get on with it! My friends were shocked and thought I was trying to kill him!!!! I literally turned a blind eye. 10 months later (and a bit of hard work) he did a clear round xc with not even any shoes on.
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Normally I would agree with you, less is more. But if I just chucked my lami horse out into a big grassy field at this time of year he would have a cresty neck in 1 day, be footy the next and completely crippled within a fortnight.
 
Super news. Had bloods done again and his GTT has gone from 172 to 41! All his bloods are within normal range now.
The all he has been fed is hay, speedie beet and legaphyton
 
MiniMilton said:
Normally I would agree with you, less is more. But if I just chucked my lami horse out into a big grassy field at this time of year he would have a cresty neck in 1 day, be footy the next and completely crippled within a fortnight.
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Did you try it because that is exactly what I thought!!

This is how he was... he got cresty if the wind blew the wrong way and he smelled the grass nevermind get his chops on the stuff....

It was only after a few months off grass, off supps, off everything that I dared do this. He had already been detoxed... he seemed well and was on the vets PTS list anyway. The trimmer said "look, what have you got to lose? At least he will die happy".

Well he didn't die. He thrived. On nothing.

Neglecting your horse seems to be the best thing you can do???
 
MiniMilton said:
Super news. Had bloods done again and his GTT has gone from 172 to 41! All his bloods are within normal range now.
The all he has been fed is hay, speedie beet and legaphyton
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Great blummin news!!!!

See...less IS more!
 
Grey Haven said:
That's fantastic news!! How long since the last blood test?
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Nearly 4 months since the last one. Delighted, its my birthday today so it was the best present ever.

tallyho! said:
Did you try it because that is exactly what I thought!!
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Well I haven't really tried it. He's generally left to fend for himself during the winters but as soon as it warms up and the cresty neck appears I go into panic mode!
He had laminitis when he was 7 and I was disgusted with myself. He's now 10 and has only been occasionally footy since but he gets starved every spring-autumn
 
Nice one! My lab messed up my blood test so whilst I got great results for muscle disease I have to wait a few more days for liver enzymes. Hope I get news like yours!
 
MiniMilton said:
Nearly 4 months since the last one. Delighted, its my birthday today so it was the best present ever.



Well I haven't really tried it. He's generally left to fend for himself during the winters but as soon as it warms up and the cresty neck appears I go into panic mode!
He had laminitis when he was 7 and I was disgusted with myself. He's now 10 and has only been occasionally footy since but he gets starved every spring-autumn
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OMG that sounds just like malt!! Very early onset!

He was doing hunter trials and showing as normal in 2010 just after 10 months out in the rough. Before that I really struggled with him.

So, tell me, if you could just let him rough it for a year say, does he have a herd to go out with? Could he have at least 10-20 acres of rough ground?

Have you thought about a track system if just turn away and look away approach sounds too much?
 
I am sitting here after a nerve wracking weekend knowing the results come back tues or wed. Vet could phone any mo with results of my ponies biopsy. She is bright and alert and got more sparkle but grumpy more and liver still raised.


My grey hairs are ever increasing :(
 
Keep us posted HGA-12!!! My pony is having his bloods taken on Monday to see if the antibiotics/steroids have helped his liver - he's very happy in himself too. Going to ride him tomorrow for the first time in 3 weeks so we'll see if coming off the EPSM diet has made any difference to his muscles. His back end/hamstrings felt nice and soft this morning when I brought him in so I'm hoping the overnight turnout is helping!
 
I just got mine back, for the first time in the two years I've monitored him his GGT is pretty much normal (50.7)!!! So happy! Muscle enzymes have dropped to normal as well. Such a massive change in 6 weeks, I can't quite believe it. I hope it continues as the seasons change and his work load increases. Good luck to the rest of you, keeping my fingers crossed you get good news like mine!
 
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