Liver enzymes results not good

[flaxen tail]

Feel like its a bad dream my lovely mare will have to have a liver biopsy as her liver is still not working properly and the enzymes have gone up except the bile duct which has improved so at least its not a tumour in her bile duct. The vets will arrange for Tim Brazil to do it . I was so hoping she would be ok as she has put on weight and looks a much better shape but her coat over her ribs looks a bit off but the rest of her is shiny. I just want a good outcome ,love her so so much. Just dont know what is causing it, thought we had it cracked with the liver fluke and tape worm treatment ,no ragwort and the hay she is on comes from a livery yard with lots of horses on it. Shes on milk thistle powder and has had 2 lots of liver treatment from the vets but they now say no point in giving more as it hasnt worked.Shes on organic feed nothing with high oil. Any ideas welcome or good recovery stories just need a bit of hope xx

 

[BBP]

Hiya, how bad are her enzyme levels and how long have they been bad? Are AST and CK high as well as GGT, GLDH, bile etc?

There seem to be loads of us who have horses with high liver enzymes on here. Try not to panic. My horse has had high levels of everything except bile for two years. I decided against biopsy and treatment as we had no idea of the cause. In the last 6 weeks since he was put on an amino acid suppliment for his newly diagnosed muscle disease not only have his muscle enzymes fallen dramatically but his liver enzymes have also dropped to nearly normal. I hope that gives you some hope. If you want, pm me your blood profile results, I'm getting a collection of horses with liver/muscle enzyme issues.

 

[flaxen tail]

Thank you for your reply, I am trying not to panic but its hard , have had the blood results emailed and Liphook have commented 'concerning results' . I will look at the email and copy out the results for you. You must be so relieved to have solved your horses issues it must have been a long 2 years for you. I know at one stage raised muscle enzymes were mentioned with my horse.She has just had a hoof abscess and I wonder if that would affect her enzymes. Thanks for giving me some hope its very welcome. Will get those results for you .

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Thank you for your reply, I am trying not to panic but its hard , have had the blood results emailed and Liphook have commented 'concerning results' . I will look at the email and copy out the results for you. You must be so relieved to have solved your horses issues it must have been a long 2 years for you. I know at one stage raised muscle enzymes were mentioned with my horse.She has just had a hoof abscess and I wonder if that would affect her enzymes. Thanks for giving me some hope its very welcome. Will get those results for you .

give her some licorice this is good for the liver, http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=254070043 I am giving my pony 7 or 8 sticks at lunch time, she is on legaphyton as well as milk thistle , also D&H recommended ultimate balancer, please phone their help line they will give you a tailored diet like they did me

 

[Grey Haven]

I too have a liver compromised pony - this is my second bout of it with him - he's never looks "ill", is a really good doer, etc but his enzymes yoyo up and down and we dont' know why. Had a biopsy last year which showed the liver itself was in good shape - but here we are a year later having a month of antibiotics and 10 days of Steroids!

Wishing you all the best - keep us posted. As the others have said there are lots of us on here with liver issue horses! You're not alone xx

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

it does feel good knowing we are not alone - not in a horrid way more in a lets stick together way and give each other moral support.

 

[BBP]

Definitely! It's nice to have a support network for stuff like this. (We lost my friends pony to liver failure so I know how scary it is). Hopefully we can all keep sharing our horses progress.

 

[flaxen tail]

Thanks again everyone , it certainly is good to be able to discuss things with you all and give support and ideas. Am not sure about the licquorice sticks (i am sure she would love them!) and have never been offered legaphyton by the vets. I feel somewhere she is metabolic as she once had lami when the other horses didnt but her ppid result has just come back negative. She has just had an abscess in her right fore and that is the one she often gets a pulse in. Her grass intake is minimal and mainly on soaked hay with full turnout and movement on a bare paddock and hardstanding. KatPT this is what I copied from the email. Protein Albumin and Globulin all normal. GGT 702, GLDH 137, AP 618, AST 538, LDH 1053, Bile Acids 9 and normal. Liphook remarks were ; Marked rise in AST GGT LDH GLDH AP consistant with hepatopathy. Bile acids normal but hepatic encephalopathy cannot be ruled out. Hope this is what you were after there were other results on there but not too sure what they were .

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Thanks again everyone , it certainly is good to be able to discuss things with you all and give support and ideas. Am not sure about the licquorice sticks (i am sure she would love them!) and have never been offered legaphyton by the vets. I feel somewhere she is metabolic as she once had lami when the other horses didnt but her ppid result has just come back negative. She has just had an abscess in her right fore and that is the one she often gets a pulse in. Her grass intake is minimal and mainly on soaked hay with full turnout and movement on a bare paddock and hardstanding. KatPT this is what I copied from the email. Protein Albumin and Globulin all normal. GGT 702, GLDH 137, AP 618, AST 538, LDH 1053, Bile Acids 9 and normal. Liphook remarks were ; Marked rise in AST GGT LDH GLDH AP consistant with hepatopathy. Bile acids normal but hepatic encephalopathy cannot be ruled out. Hope this is what you were after there were other results on there but not too sure what they were .

http://www.equistro.co.uk/ProductPage/Legaphyton.html

it has a detoxant in it as well as purified milk thistle

 

[BBP]

Thanks again everyone , it certainly is good to be able to discuss things with you all and give support and ideas. Am not sure about the licquorice sticks (i am sure she would love them!) and have never been offered legaphyton by the vets. I feel somewhere she is metabolic as she once had lami when the other horses didnt but her ppid result has just come back negative. She has just had an abscess in her right fore and that is the one she often gets a pulse in. Her grass intake is minimal and mainly on soaked hay with full turnout and movement on a bare paddock and hardstanding. KatPT this is what I copied from the email. Protein Albumin and Globulin all normal. GGT 702, GLDH 137, AP 618, AST 538, LDH 1053, Bile Acids 9 and normal. Liphook remarks were ; Marked rise in AST GGT LDH GLDH AP consistant with hepatopathy. Bile acids normal but hepatic encephalopathy cannot be ruled out. Hope this is what you were after there were other results on there but not too sure what they were .

Thanks for those. Really interesting. The GGT and GLDH are certainly high. That's a very similar result to my horse around a year ago and the same comments too. Mines AST was over 900 most of the time which I now know is the muscle disease showing itself. So I'm not sure I can help much other than to say that my horse had almost exactly the same levels for the other enzymes and he is absolutely fine so don't lose hope. He hasn't shown a sick or sorry day throughout. Obviously I'll keep monitoring as his workload ups and the grass changes (I'm blaming mycotoxins in soil or on forage).

 

[OldNag]

Thanks again everyone , it certainly is good to be able to discuss things with you all and give support and ideas. Am not sure about the licquorice sticks (i am sure she would love them!) and have never been offered legaphyton by the vets. I feel somewhere she is metabolic as she once had lami when the other horses didnt but her ppid result has just come back negative. She has just had an abscess in her right fore and that is the one she often gets a pulse in. Her grass intake is minimal and mainly on soaked hay with full turnout and movement on a bare paddock and hardstanding. KatPT this is what I copied from the email. Protein Albumin and Globulin all normal. GGT 702, GLDH 137, AP 618, AST 538, LDH 1053, Bile Acids 9 and normal. Liphook remarks were ; Marked rise in AST GGT LDH GLDH AP consistant with hepatopathy. Bile acids normal but hepatic encephalopathy cannot be ruled out. Hope this is what you were after there were other results on there but not too sure what they were .

Hi what PPID test did you have? My pony had the ACTH one and came back borderline. Had the TRH and that one came back high. If you think she might have PPID and it was an ACTH test be aware they seem to throw false negatives.

I hope you get to the bottom of what's up with your horse. It must be worrying x

 

[flaxen tail]

The equistro legathyton sounds really good cant think why I wasnt offered it as I iaske d if there was anything I should give her. I have given her mycosorb a in case of anything in the hay or grass I dont know if I should continue with it, KatPT if our results are similar perhaps I should ask about epsm , I will look it up on the internet and see if she has any symptoms. I cant say my mare has been sick as such she has not gone off food or been picky over it but work wise she started planting and became nervous ,spooky and not wanting to leave the yard also lost a bit of weight. thank you for all your help so much appreciated .

 

[BBP]

It's always worth investigating. AST is tricky as it can be released by both liver and muscle cell damage. So it may be completely irrelevant to your horse but I don't think it hurts to question the vet about it. I certain wouldn't say the EPSM caused the liver damage (we had 5 horses that all had elevated liver enzymes across 2 yards in same village, 1 died, 1 had infected bile duct but his AST was lower than mine even though liver was worse, we never figured out the cause.) but my treatment of EPSM is certainly having a positive effect. Think my pony is quite a useful case study at the moment!

 

[flaxen tail]

Old Nag thanks for your reply , i didnt know there were different PPID tests ,although I knew they can sometimes be wrong so I have asked on the laminitis facebook site what they think and am waiting for a reply. Have ordered a liver support supplement with milk thistle and licquorice. Have been thinking about why so many horses are getting raised liver enzymes as they are not all on the same hay,pasture ,feed or water. What is the common factor if there is one. I am wondering with my mare though she had raised enzymes and we treated her for liver fluke and tapes she picked up well and the enzymes improved except the GGT but I put that down to the liver fluke being absorbed by the liver . She looks good and the last time the vet came for something unrelated no bloods were taken, but this last blood test was done 3 days after her hoof abscess and a tetanus vaccination.I have just googled liver enzymes and tetanus and the vaccine can cause changes in the liver so I am going to look it up some more and see what else I can find.

 

[flaxen tail]

looked into it a bit more and my mare had tetanus toxoid and cant seem to find out if it would raise her enzymes but the tetanus anti toxin one does may ring the vets as the vet that took the blood test was a different one to the tetanus .

 

[Penny Eater]

Sorry to hear the latest liver enzyme results aren't good flaxen tail.
There might be a link with the vaccinations, have you heard of Chris Day? He's a holistic vet, might be worth talking to him if he's within travelling distance to you. His website has some great information: http://www.alternativevet.org/index.html

 

[flaxen tail]

thanks Penny , he would not be too far from us they are closed now until Monday so I could ring them and see if its something they could help with they may know if the the tetanus has any bearing on the results.

 

[LiffWee93]

Hi flaxentail, your pony seems to be going down a similar Route To mine - he has finally. Been diagnosed with a mycotoxin infection and is currently. Being treated with steroids after two biopsies! He's not out of the woods yet mind x bear in.mind that if he has any muscle Wastage due to his liver problems His muscle enzymes will be raised too xx

 

[Grey Haven]

Interesting LiffWee93 about the mycotoxin as I've started to feed my liver compromised boy mycosorb (although he's not decided he doesn't like it - typical). He too is on steroids and antibiotics due to raised liver enzymes - we're having another blood test today to see if there is any improvement. His Muscle enzymes (AST and CK) are up and down anyway as he's genetically positive for EPSM, but his GGT was 468 two weeks ago and only 100 back in October, before he came in for the winter and his hay intake increased!

The vet dismissed my mycotoxin question but was happy for me to try the mycosorb binder to see if it helped. I've also started him on Coligone for his gut and he's like a different pony!!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I am still waiting for my results Flaxen Tail which were taken over a week ago (10April) pulling my hair out. No muscle wastage and still got good appetite

 

[flaxen tail]

I so hope we can all get our horses back to health .I was feeding mycosorb a and stopped so may get some more.The liver tonic and milk thistle came today and have ordered some seabuckthorn. Spoke to vet who thinks it is time for a biopsy .Hope you get you results soon HGA-12 seem to be taking a long time. My horse is looking good and eating well and seems her normal self apart from some winter coat left but vet says they can look ok but depending what is wrong can tip over the edge into liver failure .

 

[Grey Haven]

We biopsied last year - but it's a bit hit and miss as you can pull a perfectly healthy bit of the liver and miss any bad bits.

A scan should be able to show if the liver is inflamed, has any bile stones or dead tissue as it shows up white on the scan. Also if the edges are ragged - they should be nice and smooth.

 

[sue62]

We have three (1 pony 23yrs, 2 horses 6yrs & 10yrs) all with raised liver enzyme levels, the old pony having the highest levels. They have been moved onto a new yard, hay supplier has been changed and all have had a liver biopsy and three lots of blood tests since Easter, for two of them the readings have got much worse but the 10yr old horse levels are similar to last time. There doesn't seem to be an explanation and reading all the previous posts I can see we are not alone. All of them are on steroids and large doses of vit E from the vet. When we first received the results we were devastated, but having read numerous threads about this problem I can see that some horses have this for years. So I guess all is not lost just yet, glad I found this thread.

 

[olop]

My boy had raised liver enzymes on the back of last year, we had the biopsy done which showed an infection, 6 weeks of antibiotics and a milk thistle supplement and the levels were back to the higher side of normal. He is due to be tested again next month to see if they are back to normal.

The biopsy is well worth doing, especially if an infection has caused it as antibiotics will be able to sort it out.

High protein feeds and haylage have a lot to answer for as well so you may want to look at your diet as well as the added supplements you are feeding.

 

[FelicityCottonsocks]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know if there is a link between liver issues and giving linseed/vit E balanced supplement (high oil diet)?

Thanks

 

[Silverfire]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know if there is a link between liver issues and giving linseed/vit E balanced supplement (high oil diet)?

Thanks

My mare Silverfire was on a lot of micronized linseed with Vit E for a long while and always had normal GGt results. For past 3 months shes only been having about 25g a day and no vitamin E and suddenly her GGT is raised (74 (>49)). So I would say no it doesn't cause liver issues - well unless her vet was lying about all her previous blood results but a vet wouldn't do that would they.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

As this updated I am currently waiting more bloods tomorrow as the last two test were increased.

Don't know what is causing it
no ragwort or sycamore

she is on legaphyton and milk thistle as per vets instructions

 

[flaxen tail]

Me too HGA 12, results in next couple of days, feeling anxious. I am thinking maybe leaky gut ? have read with this condition food leaks out and causes toxins that go into the liver and muscles hence raised liver enzymes and raised muscle enzymes AST and CK, am currently giving increased vit E for muscles and ulsagon . Have tested for PSSM1 and she hasnt got it thankfully but not yet tested for PSSM2 . Everything crossed for a good outcome for all our horses.

 

[Suelin]

Following this with interest. I have a yearling with raised enzymes and bile acids. Frustrating not knowing the possible cause.

 

[smokeyjo]

Flaxen tail you might remember me contributing to your previous thread on this. I thought I'd join in this one as I am still a member of the 'Raised Liver Enzymes Club', although things have improved a lot.

When diagnosed late autumn 2014:-

AST 601
GGT 375
AP 615
(these were the only figures that I got)

Results July/Aug 2015:-

AST 282
GGT 91
AP 601
GLDH 4
LDH 705

I'm having another blood test done in November as that is when his Cushings blood test is done.

This summer he has been on a very simple diet; out 24/7 on old pasture, with free range to it all, a small feed of D & H High Fibre nuts with supplements of Feedmark Liver Aid and D & H Milk Thistle. He is also on a daily 1/2 Prascend tablet for his cushings, and 1/2 sachet of Danilon as an anti-inflammatory for his low ringbone. I feel that this fairly simple diet has contributed to his recovery because his struggling liver hasn't had so much work to do, but like everyone else I honestly don't know the answer

He has had a fantastic (voracious) appetite throughout, and has always trotted up the field to meet me, however last winter I really began to wonder whether it might be time to consider making 'that decision' as he lost so much weight. This summer though he has bounced back to being in great condition which is amazing considering he is 28 now.

Let's hope winter is kind to us all - I have to say I'm dreading it:-(