Liver fluke in horses: any experience/knowledge of this

[flintfootfilly]

Whilst trying to find the cause of ongoing liver problems with my gang over the the last few months, I've had poo samples from several ponies tested twice for fluke (by flotation method) - all came back negative.

Today, I've just had the results of last week's samples for 2 ponies. One negative, again. The other has come back 1 Fasciola hepatica egg in 3g poo.

So I've gone ahead and given Fasinex flukicide as per the instructions given by my vet a few months ago in discussions with someone up at Glasgow who's interested in liver fluke in horses. We'd asked about possible side effects a few months ago, so at least I know what to watch out for (fever, mild colicky signs apparently). If things go smoothly for that pony, I intend to use the flukicide on the other ponies too.

However, there are a few things I'm wondering about now and the Glasgow chap is away from work for another week, so I wondered if anyone on here had direct experience/knowledge of fluke?

Firstly, the Fasinex is a liquid, and I dosed the 50ml by syringe but it kind of goes everywhere, even with a pretty tolerant pony. Anyone found a better way of doing? Will some of them tolerate it in a feed, or is it too unpalatable?

Any idea on what constitutes a low/medium/high count for liver fluke eggs? 1 egg/3g poo sounds low compared to faecal worm counts....... but I've no idea in terms of infestation levels.

Is there an acceptable level of fluke infestation (like with faecal worm counts, sometimes it's suggested to not worm any with less than 50 eggs/gram)?

Does anyone on here routinely use a flukicide if they know that stock on the land has had liver fluke previously? How often?

Any other actions worth taking re land management or pony management in the light of this one positive result? I would have thought my land was low risk of fluke as there is no standing water, and all drinking water is provided by mains water in troughs which I clean out regularly. No other livestock have been on those fields for at least a few years.

If you have had horses with confirmed liver fluke, what levels did their blood liver enzymes reach before treatment? Over what kind of period did bloods (or horses) show an improvement after treatment with flukicide...... if they did show an improvement?

Any good reference stuff on the net? Anything else worth knowing?

My local vet is away this week, and I've asked to speak to one of the other practice vets, and also asked if they can ask these questions of Glasgow, so hoping that they may be able to find out a little more that way.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Sarah

 

[putasocinit]

May i ask how much flukicide did you have to give per 100kg of horse. I would mix in feed. Flukes come from snails which go up the stems of the grass so no need for other grazers for it to be ingested. With this wet weather i do not think it matters if the field is not a boggy one, i walk on enough of these snails when out walking the dogs. I am going to worm mine for flukes, just to be safe, will do an egg count though.

 

[katherine1975]

Putasocinit - which wormer do you use for flukes?

 

[GreedyGuts]

Hi

There is a concentrated version of Fasinex which reduces the volume required making it a bit easier. The dose rate is the same as for cattle.

The fact you have any eggs present in the faeces is pretty definitive proof of Fluke infection, a diagnosis I have always made based on clinical signs, farm history and blood work. It also shows that you have a chronic adult infection, and in my opinion would warrant treating all horses on the property. In my experience horses show a fairly rapid improvement in condition after treatment. We are in a Flukey part of the UK and a lot of our clients will treat horses, particularly

 

[GreedyGuts]

Those kept on farms with otjet livestock.

 

[Louis]

what problems have you been having - mine all dosed with fasinex? this week from the vet, they have had liver disease all year despite treatment!

 

[Orangehorse]

A young horse of mine was having strange symptoms and the vet came and dosed him for liver fluke. It was the same as cattle wormer, he said it wasn't really licenced for horses but gave it to him anyway. This was a long time ago now, but it is something I have always borne in mind.

The summer has been so wet all farmers have been advised to worm the cattle for liver fluke, even if it isn't normally a problem in a drier year.

 

[flintfootfilly]

Thanks for all your replies.

The flukicide that was recommended to me was Fasinex (not licensed for horses).

The dosing rate suggested for my ponies was 10mg ai per kg BW. There are various formulations of Fasinex, some stronger than others, so it's important to work out the ai rather than just go by a particular volume of the fluid.

I syringed the dose into the first pony, but it was very messy and he will definitely not have received a full dose.

Beyond that, I've tried putting it in a feed and the other ponies have wolfed it down (should have tried that first, I guess, but the ponies are usually very good at detecting when there's anything medicinal in their feed!).

Louis, thanks for your pm. Will reply to you shortly. Long and short, though, is that I believed we had a muscle problem from low selenium, was addressing that through diet and monthly bloods. Within 4 weeks of starting the new diet, liver enzymes had increased in all ponies. 4 weeks later, they had shot up further. Worst pony is currently on a GGT of just over 2,000. No clinical signs, although the worst pony is increasingly reluctant to be ridden, so if I hadn't already been monitoring his bloods, I would definitely have asked for a blood test as a starting point for investigating his changed attitude to work (backing up in an agitated way when asked to move on in walk).

Sarah

 

[putasocinit]

I have not wormed for fluke before so was interested. I have today sent off dung samples for worm counts so will see what comes from that. I did have a chat with my work vet who was not concerned about fluke in horses, which surprised me.

 

[flintfootfilly]

putasocinit,

googling stuff last night I came across mention of general faecal worm egg counts not picking up fluke eggs. There was a reply from someone from Westgate labs saying the fluke eggs tend to be heavier than other eggs, so fluke eggs tend to sink in the flotation liquid they use for general worm counts. They were saying they can use a different flotation liquid if the client has asked specifically for a fluke test.

Don't know if that's relevant for you, but thought it might be worth mentioning it, as it sounds as though it's really important to ask specifically for them to look for fluke if that's what you want to know about. I have a feeling it might have been on the IHDG forum but I can't find it googling it now.

Sarah

 

[Louis]

Sarah, mine had a max of 420, this pony was given a 90% chance of dying within 6 months without treatment. He has had treatment but been off work all summer as they simply can't work. Its extrememly likely that your horse is uncomfortable and should not be in work at all. Signs are muscle loss over back area, out of breath, not lifting back, tension around ribs where inflamed liver sore, thicker coat in some areas. It's only biopsy which can show the cause and treatment, which can vary from viral, ragwort , other poisoning, environmental etc.

 

[herring]

Anyone know advsed protocols for deciding wether & WHEN to treat for liver fluke? We have notoriously flukey pasture, treat our sheep every year but have never had it recommended to treat horses by vets, nor do we have any obvious symptoms currently. How & when does one send samples to count for Fluke eggs: is it now or springtime? I would guess early February would be time but bit of a stab in the dark. ANY advice welcome.

 

[flintfootfilly]

Just found the link to the comment by Gill of Westgate labs:

http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=help&action=print&thread=103617

 

[putasocinit]

Thanks for the help, just had my normal results back from westgate and both were clear so worming programme is working, wish i had of known before i would have asked for the fluke test, think i will send off another sample to wetgate for the flukes, i want to be sure they are in good health. Will say though they are both doing very well with no signs of illness but cant be sure.