Liveries!! Tell me if i'm wrong. Rather long sorry!

Hi, I agree with Jellyshake. Arrange to have a private chat with them. Explain that you feel the horse is dangerous and a liability and should he injure you, another livery or another horse you would be responsible, so can't take the risk.

Say you like them very much personally, but that either they've got a couple of months to sell the horse (probably at a loss) or if they are committed to keeping him long term, they will have to think about moving. And that if they decide to stay you'll help them find something more suitable.
 
I think you have behaved in a really exemplary way through all of this. At the very end of the day you have other clients and their horses to keep safe, as well as yourself. Which this one livery is jeopardising.

The mother's attitude is truly abysmal and isn't helping one jot. I think you should give them notice and be done with. Your yard sounds way too nice to be spoiled by one livery.
 
I'd ask them to leave - a dangerous horse is a liability to all concerned and if one of your other liveries gets hurt (horse OR human) you could be held liable as you know the horse has "issues" !!

I think that having to leave your horse in so their's doens't cause damage to YOUR property (and I don't expect they'll pay for any repairs) is a cheek.

I had similar where I am. New livery came in (so only 2 on yard) - owner said can't be left out on own & if left in can be a problem so use weaving bars with infil. Well after being dragged to field left in next time having told owner I wasn't prepared to turn it out. On the sunday I did my horse & popped home for an hour - when I came back the owner still hadn't been up (was now nearly 2 hours since mine went out) and the horse had reared up & managed to get it's legs over the top of the bars and had bent them down into the stable so you couldn't open the door. I left an urgent message for the owner as she wasn't answering ANY of her calls. She eventually turned up about 2 hours later (after I had dragged my poor horse back in to keep it quiet) and when I told her what happened she said the horse couldn't be left alone AT ALL - I said well I'm not prepared to stand up here keeping it company when mine was out if she couldn't be bothered to sort it out. Shortly after she found it another loan home as she didn't really want the bother anymore (found boys & she had been given it back as the previous loanee didn't want it after just 2 months).

So I'd DEFINITELY ask them to go - it's just not worth the hassle.
 
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She has been trying to get all the other liveries to ride him for free, I have offered to school him at £10 per session but she wont pay. I have said I am not allowing the other girls to go up to the field and bring him in to ride him for her so she now feels I am being awkward.

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I have to say I'd think you were being awkward here too. If liveries make arrangements to help one-another with problems a YO saying you can't but you can pay me to do it would certainly get my back up. My YM is currently helping a livery sell on and replace a horse which has proved costly and unsuitable and she is being accommodating and generous beyond belief. You can't tell from this post but I remember a previous post of yours which displayed a somewhat superior attitude. These people have found themselves in a difficult situation and are long term customers, if you are competant and as knowledgeable as you seem to be, would it put you out too much to help install a few ground rules to this horse, that is honestly what I would do if I were you.
 
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give them their notice to quit...

you dont need the hassle...

end of.

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Yep, exactly! Get them out, totally not worth it. Might 'concentrate the mind' to sell as well.
 
I can understand why a lot people are saying, get rid you don't need the hassle and of course you don't, you have to think about your safety and others and run your business as a business not a charity and yes ok so her mum isnt by the sounds of it very forth coming, but like you said they are novices, they don't know any better unlike yourself who will have a lot of experience, put yourself in their position for a minute if it were you? they have landed themselves in a very unfortunate situation, I'm sure its as stressful for them as it is for you.

But if there where more people in the world who did struggle through thick and thin, to help others that are in need, even if they don't appreciate it at the time, the horsey world would be a better place would it not?...all I'm saying is giving them a chance by giving them a time scale to work on sorting the horse out...perhaps?

If they had been long faithful customers of mine then I'd wouldnt feel right turfing them off unless I tried to help providing I was not putting other liveries at risk/danger etc.
 
KVS: I spoke to my yard insurance company today, they have informed me that because I am supplying a service to all liveries in my care I will be termed negligent in a court of law should any of them get injured whilst helping her because I knew the horse had handling problems and did not put a Health & Safety system in place covering this problem to prevent anyone else handling the horse. She too would be termed negligent allowing someone else to help knowing her horse has 'issues' which apparently her insurance should have been informed immediately he started showing bad behaviour! If her insurance company finds out that she knew about his behaviour they can revoke the policy when someone tries to claim against her which means the injured person can then come back at me! I have given her 4 months of my free professional time and having read everyone elses replies I think I have offered the best service possible for £25 per week!! Thanks for your reply and the fact you point out I have a superior attitude - maybe I know need to use it on my livery!
 
yep give them notice to quit and let me move my mare in........only problem is she has gone to stud so will hopefully be mare +1 next year.......they sound a nightmare.
 
D_B
just keeping an eye on this thread........... i'm going to defo stick up for you.......... You sound and have acted very fairly and knowledgable......... which in my book is the way to be. And am suprised at a response having a pop at you........

But i do hope it resolves it's self soon..........
 
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You can't tell from this post but I remember a previous post of yours which displayed a somewhat superior attitude.

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I think that is a little uncalled for and totally off thread!!!!

There are novices in the world, but they should realise they are novices, buy horses within their capabilities and listen to advice that they are given!!!....If not, they are pretty much beyond help and I fail to see why others should be put in any kind of danger as a result.
 
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These people have found themselves in a difficult situation and are long term customers, if you are competant and as knowledgeable as you seem to be, would it put you out too much to help install a few ground rules to this horse, that is honestly what I would do if I were you.

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The horse is dangerous to the point where the OP has been injured and can't ride. I don't see how or why the OP should risk herself when the owners won't help themselves by taking lessons... or do you think she should give those for free as well?
Dressage_Babe, I think you've been more than reasonable and would love to have a horse of mine at your yard.
 
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Mother has decided to come up and help her.......... but is totally refusing to speak or even acknowledge me even when she comes face to face with me.

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Oh, grounds enough me thinks to 'Adios' them. It may be a business, but it's your business and your home, and if relations have broken down (albeit one sided) to the extent that you are being treated in a rude manner then I think you are quite within your rights, justifiably, to give them notice to leave.
 
SallyEllis: Would love to have a mare & baby on the yard so watch this space!!

Kick_On: Thank you for your support, it means a lot when you start doubting your own actions and to read kind words help me to feel I have done as much as possible for the comfort and safety of my other liveries and more importantly theirs & my own horses!

Maisy: Once again, Thank you for your reply - we all start off as novices but the biggest battle in learning is to admit and recognise this then I feel, we all learn a hell of a lot more.

MANY THANKS TO (almost!) EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR KIND WORDS & SUPPORT, I AM MUCH HAPPIER IN MY MIND THAT I AM NOT BEING A COMPLETE BI*CH NOR USING & I QUOTE; 'SUPERIOR ATTITUDE' I WILL NOW HAVE A CHAT WITH THE PAIR OF THEM AND SEE WHAT WE CAN COME UP WITH.
 
DB, I don't think you are acting all superior at all. You have already been injured, i am sure like most of us you have a lot of horses/people depending on you and you can't afford to be injured. I think you have been incredibly helpful and agree that you have a responsibility to your other liveries also.
I do feel for this girl and her mum, I am sure most have bought a horse at some time or another that is unsuitable for us. I certainly did, luckily i had someone like to you to help out. It was a professional agreement and i was happy to pay to get the help, i appreciate that they perhaps don't have a lot of spare cash.
The point is, this isn't going to get any better unless they take steps to sort it out.
They must be feeling very stressed with all this, ( i know i did), perhaps an 'cards on the table' sort of chat is required. Ground rules have to be established and steps have to be taken to improve the horses behaviour or they will have to look for another yard. I think this is fair or you may start to lose other liveries because they are worried about their horses being injured in the field.
I hope it gets sorted for you.
 
I have moved one of my horses out of his paddock and put the livery horse in there on his own but there is just a post & rail seperating him from the others so he still has company, I have now had to divide my other horse's field up with electric fencing and stuck my guy in there. I don't think I can do much more? I am going to have a chat with her tomorrow to see what we can do but apparently I found out from my insurance co today that if I am aware he has shown behaviour tendancies I have to exclude any claims from clients & their horses that this horse has caused injury to because I have aknowledged he has a problem! almost pointless taking out insurance dont you think! The same goes for everyone else when they fill out their application form for insurance cover and answer NO to the question which is now on nearly everyones form 'Has this horse shown any vicious tendancies or vices or any problems of behaviour or have any confirmational abnormalities'!!! they automatically revoke a claim on the policy if they find out that the owner knew of a problem with behaviour. Rather scary really.
 
what a lot of effort you are putting into this situation. My girl has a tendency to just leave a field if she is not happy, but it was me who went round the field and raised the fencing to make it fort knox-like, i wouldn't have expected anyone else to do it.
The insurance thing is a bit of a concern tho', don't you think that it gives them a big 'out' for almost every situation. This obviously has to be a contributary factor to what steps you decide to take with them. I also think it has to be part of the conversation you have with them tomorrow.
I do feel really sorry for them but they are putting your business in jeopardy.
They would be best to get a behaviourist in or trade the horse in to a dealer (not something i would normally recommend) and taking a hit on the money. I dread to think what will happen to this horse if they do that but he is only going to get worse with the way they handle him. There are people who take problem horses and sort them out before selling them on. Perhaps this is an option.
 
Gosh, I wish when I bought my mare with a friend last year I'd had a YO like you! I think things might have worked out better all round and I wouldn't have ended up a nervous wreck! (I was sort of railroaded into buying 1/2 a young horse that wasn't really suitable... read as near disaster!).

As a novice everything myself, I feel that one of the biggest issues that pops up here on this forum is people who have bought themselves something totally unsuitable for 1 reason or another and then either totally ignore that fact or expect other people to sort it out for them and I don't feel this is fair.

I would like to emphasise that this is not the same as asking for help or advice. I think in the horse-world, this is the best thing you can do - at any level. It is just a shame that some folk out there are 'too big' to accept this.
 
Minkymoo: Sorry to hear you've had a bad experience, it is very difficult when you have to admit it but I always maintain that a horse that strips you of your confidence NEVER really gives it back! for this reason you should move it on and start again, horses are expensive hobbies (unless professional) and we should enjoy every minute of them but when it gets to a stage where you start to avoid every possible situation of upsetting the horse like my livery does ie comes up late when every one has gone so that horses aren't coming and going when she is riding in the arena just in case her horse kicks off or only hacking the same route every day so that her horse never see's anything that might scare him etc it is no longer fun - then I say, whats the point. There are lots of genuine horses out there that have a whole lot of time & love to offer a novice and we sometimes have to admit we have been over horsed and move on, as you did so well done.
 
I think she is lucky to have a YO like you as you have offered to help and given suggestions like more exercise, lessons etc. If she has not taken up your suggestions then she is not trying very hard to resolve the problems.

I would have more sympathy if she was trying harder but it is hard as she is a young person so not totally independent yet and earning her own money and I would not want the negative actions of her mother to affect her.

Alot of people have problem horses but as adults we may find it is easier to understand the implications through experience.

My pony has some issues regarding stabling and I have got sedation for him if he needs to come in so that he will not cause trouble on the yard. He was quite dominant when he arrived but has now settled but I have taken his back shoes off so again he can cause less damage if he decides he wants to kick another pony who gets too close to him in the field.

A possible solution might be to get a very experience sharer to help her out - some people thrive on challenges!
 
Hi,
I think you've been a great YO, it seems to me that the problem lies with the pushy Mother!

If you are willing to keep them as liveries then my advice would be to speak to the Mum and explain your concerns straight to her.

Shes needs to be told (politely but firmly
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) that a horse like that is not suitable / will cost a lot to put right / will potentially harm her daughter, or someone else. She needs to hear all that, and to stop acting all high and mighty over a situation she has no experience in.

What about a horse behavourist / we use Cindy Gould at our yard on a mare that needed work and she was very good. Shes worked with Monty Roberts for years.
Here's a list of other recommendations on the Intelligent Horsemanship website;
http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/

I hope this get resolves for everyones sake, sounds like a horrid situation for all concerned.
 
For what it's worth I bought my first pony with little knowledge and no one to help me and made a huge mistake with him. After 6 months of trying I threw in the towel and sold him on. I then viewed loads and loads of horses before buying another who is a little star and have had him for three years. I guess what I'm saying is that they should realise their capabilities and give up with good grace, we all make mistakes. It sounds to me as though you can do no more, at the end of the day he is their responsibility and they should act responsibly and give him up and maybe look for something else more suitable. He can't be doing much for the girl's confidence at the end of the day.
 
My God !! I thought I was the only one with this problem at the moment!! I fully empathise with your situation ,Dressage Babe.mine is virtually the same ,although the mare is a lot older ,they've had it for longer and girl has been with me for 4 years ,but just this year neither the mare or the girl have improved with age.I refuse to put the mare out ,as her behaviour is unpredictable ,even with hormonal medicine!
As far as Iam concerned,girl is not listening to advice,ie work the damn thing!!,can't get motivated to pick up her horses poo,and is sullen to boot,then she deals with her own stuff and the only person who does help is her mum,and thats their choice.I have like yourself ,done everything to help her but I don't have MUG tatooed on my forehead ,and have seriously said to my OH that any more episodes and it will be BYE BYE.
Feel better now,my mate convinced it was just me being toooo soft,but my faith that there are kind and thoughtful people out there ,and we just get taken advantage of by some.
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Its a really unpleasant situation to be in so I am sorry you to are going through it! I am finding myself avoiding being on the yard when she turns up and it shouldn't be like that.

I have spoken in great length to her and explained that now she has bought a 'Be nice headcollar' which she informs me is working even though she is still coming down from the field looking terrified, we will give him 1 month to change but under no circumstances is she allowed to involve the other liveries as she, herself, has made the decision to keep him. I have also told her that her Mother is not welcome on my yard causing an unpleasant atmosphere unless she stops sulking as she has refused to come and discuss it with me. I can only wait and see now, I have covered myself by specifying that she has to do him totally herself - this is apparently classed as a health & safety proceedure which my insurance company has insisted I do. Hope your problem resolves itself soon, mine I fear is going to end in tears as I don't feel our relationship pre purchase of this horse will ever be the same as I treated her like a daughter in a way. Everyone has been so kind on here and it has made me feel so much better, so Thanks Guys!
 
What an awful situation to be in and you've done everything you can to help so I can appreciate how it's really testing your patience now.

I can imagine though that your conversation with the teenager may have been relayed to the mother incorrectly and as someone else mentioned her nose is probably out of joint and she's embarrassed. Have you tried to talk to the mother on your own?

It's your yard and you make the decisions at the end of the day. Is there anything in your livery contract that says horses that trash fields and are a general nuisance must leave the yard? Sounds like you have more valid reasons to ask them to leave - not paying on time, poor attitude etc on the yard which makes it unpleasant for everyone else.
 
On the insurance issue alone you are justified in asking them to leave. It's a tough call, but you run a business and have a responsibility to yourself and your liveries. I'm sure this mother and daughter wouldn't have been paying for cover for your work if you had been more seriously injured.
 
They haven't once offered to muck out for me and there I am forking up the muck heap that they just leave at the front of the trailer with my arm in a sling! I didn't mention in my post that her previous horse reared with her and at the time I was helping her get on the Mare as she was the sort that shoot off as soon as your foot was in the stirrup, I held on to her rein but she pulled me over and chipped my patella!! I seem to have more war wounds from this livery than in my 35yrs of riding! The more I reflect the more I think life would be far easier without her on the yard.
 
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