Livery - And inexperienced owners

M

mickey

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 November 2005
Messages
5,169
Location
Kent
Visit site
Just a couple of thoughts - At the yard I keep my horse on full livery there are one or two people who are very inexperienced when it comes to managing horses. They ride but when it comes to feed, rugging, turnout, veterinary issues etc they seem to do a lot of things incorrectly.
It is my belief that having a grounding in horse management best comes from experience when you are younger. I spent all my teens handling polo ponies, show jumpers, ponies etc etc. As a 15 yr old I regularly looked after they yard single handedly for a week or two at a time.
I believe this hands on experience has served me well in my older age. Although my horse is in full livery I have a large amount of input into how he is managed and luckily for me and the YO we are on the same page with pretty much everything.
smile.gif


Do you think people owning horses are best learning horse mgt when they are younger?
confused.gif


Also do you think it is wrong for a livery to own horses on full livery never having looked after a horse themselves?
confused.gif
 
I think a lot of the problem these days is people coming into horse ownership late in life, and because horses arent seen as such luxury pets as they used to be, it seems lots of people learn to ride then think they are ready to own a horse!

Some seem to be of the mindset we why pay for riding when i can own my own for that price. Unfortunately there is more to it.

Dont get me wrong there are lots of instances where a total novice owner does buy a horse and it works out fine, because they have a good network of help around, but IMO you shouldnt own a horse if you dont know how to care for it yourself.
 
DON'T GET ME STARTED IT IS MY PET HATE!
Grrrrrrrrrr

I cannot abide the "lets but a £10k horse and not know how to tie it up brigade"

Groundwork is the first and most important step to a good horseperson.
 
i don't think age got to do with 'experience', you would like to think so, BUT not

I think it's better if folk who haven't owned before have full livery as then YO will be keeping eye on welfare instead of gg stuck on DIY with no help!

For the first this year, i really have meet someone who i would class as 'bad' owner and she was 'No spring chicken'. I'm so glad she sent said gg back to owners, as i was going to fall out with her big time as IMO she was defo cruel, irrogant and useless as horsewoman!
 
[ QUOTE ]

I think it's better if folk who haven't owned before have full livery as then YO will be keeping eye on welfare instead of gg stuck on DIY with no help!

[/ QUOTE ]

But what if the horse in on full livery and the owner has no clue. I still don't think this is a satisfactory arrangement as should difficult decisions arise how will the owner make these? There are certain responsibilities that the owner has IMO even if the horse is on full livery, and if the owner has no experience I think it is hard to meet these.
confused.gif


[ QUOTE ]
For the first this year, i really have meet someone who i would class as 'bad' owner and she was 'No spring chicken'. I'm so glad she sent said gg back to owners, as i was going to fall out with her big time as IMO she was defo cruel, irrogant and useless as horsewoman!

[/ QUOTE ]

WRT this I was really talking about people getting experience when they are younger to help them hadle horses when they are older. I'm not saying that either young or old people should not own horses, merely that it helps to have a good grounding of experience first.
smile.gif
 
I think you learn at any age, it's whether you're prepared to take on board other folks ideas and suggestions and that's a mind set, not age thing.

Well if someone has gg on at Full livery and owners are being stupid/cruel etc... IMO that's down to YO to 'step up to the plate' and advise there customers in the correct way and help them

it would be lovely if everyone was keen and learn from the bottom up but folk don't want to do that any more... people want things instantly that's the way of the world...
 
The problem now though is where do they get the experience? Because of insurance etc many yards are reluctant to take on people to teach them. It was part of beginner's lessons when I was growing up - half an hour ride, half an hour stable management - so when you graduated to the next level you knew to turn up 20 min early to find your horse, groom and tack up - and allow time to untack etc after your lesson. Now, I think many places haven't the staff to supervise this which is a shame.
However, now schools daren't have 'tricky' horses (for legal reasons, as well as the economic problem of horses that not all clients can ride), there seems no way of educating people properly. I too hate seeing novice new owners over-horsing themselves, but would disagree with your point about them on full livery. It is DEFINATELY better for the horse that there is someone about with knowledge, and unfortunately now it seems that you get so far with riding schools, and then to progress have to take your chances with your own horse.
Three cheers for kind hearted yard owners and instructors who can support people doing this and try to avert disaster while people learn!
 
[ QUOTE ]
The problem now though is where do they get the experience? Because of insurance etc many yards are reluctant to take on people to teach them. It was part of beginner's lessons when I was growing up - half an hour ride, half an hour stable management - so when you graduated to the next level you knew to turn up 20 min early to find your horse, groom and tack up - and allow time to untack etc after your lesson. Now, I think many places haven't the staff to supervise this which is a shame.
However, now schools daren't have 'tricky' horses (for legal reasons, as well as the economic problem of horses that not all clients can ride), there seems no way of educating people properly. I too hate seeing novice new owners over-horsing themselves, but would disagree with your point about them on full livery. It is DEFINATELY better for the horse that there is someone about with knowledge, and unfortunately now it seems that you get so far with riding schools, and then to progress have to take your chances with your own horse.
Three cheers for kind hearted yard owners and instructors who can support people doing this and try to avert disaster while people learn!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that full livery for an ineperienced horse owner is not better than DIY for the horse. What I am saying is that IMO a decent level of horsemanship should be present in the owner whether on full livery or not. I don't esp like to see totally inexperienced horse owners on full livery or any other livery, IME it is rare that a YO would interfere with the way the owner wants things done, irrespective of owner's experience level. I say learn at least the basics first, then think about owning a horse.
 
Well I'm 48 and only met a horse for the first time 6 years ago. I have had my mare 3 1/2 years (had an unsuitable horse first before her as so many novices do). My mare is also on full livery, but she's on a yard where the manager is fine about fussy owners. Thats good because I like things done my way for her. I educated myself early in my horse owning on feed, equine dentists, physios etc. I quickly noticed that some people who had been in horses a long time did things, used people (eg old fashioned back man) etc that I was uneasy with. Some others who were new to horses seemed to have no clue at all. so I've made it my business to educate myself. Thats not to say that I don't ever take advice from old hands, but I can consider that advise from a fairly well informed place.

So no, I don't think people need to learn young - after all, its not rocket science, just a mixture of common sense, science and caring.
 
Its never too late to learn, its whether they are willing to thats the problem-whether they are 5 or 45 youve got to want to learn or you wont get anywhere!
 
I think people should 'earn' their horse by doing work for other people and perhaps taking a horse out on loan at an experienced yard where people can keep an eye on them first. If after about 6months they are still getting up at 6am rain or shine and doing all the caring for the horse to the same or a better standard they were doing it to at the beginning of the 6months then they deserve a horse.
 
Just to throw a little spanner in the works...

My friend used to ride when she was about 7-10years old, she then stopped until she was 25!
At 25 she had about 6 months of intensive lessons and bought her first horse, she'd had basic horse knowldge (bugger all really) but she came to our yard with her new horse (who was suitable thankgod) willing to learn and willing to spend her money doing it properly!

She read hundreds of books, internet forums and asked thousands of questions and not once has she put her horse in any situation that would be deemed careless of novicy.

Because she was willing we became very good friends, its been about a year since she bought her horse and now if you watched her you would never tell she started from zero and worked her way through it.

I think if the mindset and determination are there it can be done correctly without the need for experience when younger and i believe novicy and new owners can do things correctly when helped and ideally, when the advice and help is offered.
 
I take it thats tongue in cheek?

I have never got up at 6am to do my horse. She is on full livery, but the yard keeps me informed of everything and carry out things the way I like them to be for her. Her welfare is paramount for me. I'm down five days a week (at least) and my time there is all about her and me being together (riding, lunging, grooming or just chilling out together). I supply her hard feed myself because I like her on a particular fibre feed. I have monitored her hay supply and had it increased (I no longer need to monitor it) The YM contacts me if there is anything not quite right with her and I am always there for the vet etc.

None of this requires me to get up at stupid o'clock or to muck out!
 
Well wern't you the lucky one being able to do all your learning as a youngster!
Sadly in the real world on the average wage not many of our parents could afford to pay for riding lessons and a pony as well as cart us to the pony club at the weekend.
As a child I had a burning love for horses, it was all I ever wanted, but my parents didnt have money for the odd lesson, let alone a real pony of my own. At sixteen I some how talked my way into a job at a local yard, I didnt even know how to tie the bloody things up on my first day, but with hard graft, dedication and loads of pig headed determination I had within three years got my BHS AI and was working as an event groom.
So no I don't think age has anything to do with it.
If you ask me it boils down to one thing, horses have never been my "hoby" or my "work" they are my way of life and as such I have always, and will continue to do all I can to care for them in the best way I can.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Well wern't you the lucky one being able to do all your learning as a youngster!
Sadly in the real world on the average wage not many of our parents could afford to pay for riding lessons and a pony as well as cart us to the pony club at the weekend.
As a child I had a burning love for horses, it was all I ever wanted, but my parents didnt have money for the odd lesson, let alone a real pony of my own. At sixteen I some how talked my way into a job at a local yard, I didnt even know how to tie the bloody things up on my first day, but with hard graft, dedication and loads of pig headed determination I had within three years got my BHS AI and was working as an event groom.
So no I don't think age has anything to do with it.
If you ask me it boils down to one thing, horses have never been my "hoby" or my "work" they are my way of life and as such I have always, and will continue to do all I can to care for them in the best way I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't the 'lucky one' as it happens - My parents are completely non-horsey, and I happened to meet a family at primary school (a state school) who had horses. I started off loaning a pony (by working for the loan at their yard, no money involved) and it progressed from there. In the end I was working there every day of the week, including Christmas, free of pay, in order to ride and be taken to competitions. I certainly never was given a 'free ride'. I am quite sure there are yards out there who would take voluntary help in order for people to learn!! Please don't assume that I was given the soft option in any way! I was 27 by the time I managed to earn enough to afford my own horse
 
There's no doubt that less people are learning the ropes from a young age and like learning anything, it's always best to get into it younger rather than older. I'm not saying you can't be an older rider and then buy a horse, but there are so many little things you pick up as a kid doing the riding-school-helping-out routines, and helping out friends and so on, before getting a horse of your own. I agree with fjp that there's less chance nowadays and that's a real shame. I can't imagine coming into it now, not knowing a thing, I wouldn't know where to start! I feel like horses are just a way of life really and always have been (even though nobody else in my family has anything to do with them).
 
In an ideal world, I think people should have to take a basic horse management course before taking responsibility for a horse. Obviously this is not practical in the real world, but I can dream!

I suppose if someone is keeping their horse at full livery, the day-to-day responsibility for the horse normally lies with the yard owner and staff, but things like feed rations and handling need to be learnt by the owner.

Ideally, people should learn when they are young, but may people just don't get the opportunity and take up horses when they are much older. For these such people, I think a basic horse management course would be a great benefit - both the to horses involved, owners and industry as a whole.
 
Just to add - I have never ever wanted to keep a horse on full livery, even if I could afford it I've always wondered what's the point? I mean, the day to day routine is part of the fun!
 
[ QUOTE ]
wasn't the 'lucky one' as it happens - My parents are completely non-horsey, and I happened to meet a family at primary school (a state school) who had horses. I started off loaning a pony (by working for the loan at their yard, no money involved) and it progressed from there. In the end I was working there every day of the week, including Christmas, free of pay, in order to ride and be taken to competitions. I certainly never was given a 'free ride'. I am quite sure there are yards out there who would take voluntary help in order for people to learn!! Please don't assume that I was given the soft option in any way! I was 27 by the time I managed to earn enough to afford my own horse

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely then you off all people should be willing to give older folk a break. I know someone who is doing exactly what you did, infact she is working for training at our yard, however she is in her 30's. So again I shall say it has nothing to do with how old you are,and everything to do with how you think and feel. The age theory is imaterial, people can be pig ignorant in horse care be then 16 or 60.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think people should 'earn' their horse by doing work for other people and perhaps taking a horse out on loan at an experienced yard where people can keep an eye on them first. If after about 6months they are still getting up at 6am rain or shine and doing all the caring for the horse to the same or a better standard they were doing it to at the beginning of the 6months then they deserve a horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I find this a little patronising & holier than thou - why should we 'babysit these people - what gives us the right' - I have met adult novice owners who have got sick of riding schools and struck out on their own. I have respect for them because they wanted to learn, asked questions and more often than not had the right answer because they looked it up in books or asked someone experienced etc.

I also know a few 'experienced horse owners' who have learnt as kids but lack common sense and I have witnessed them tying up directly to gates or leaving a horse in pain because 'they don't need to call the vet yet'.

I have to say, we are not all experts, lots of horse-knowledge is opinion and we all keep learning all the time - everyday.
Sometimes, a little bit of knowledge is very dangerous. I'm sure we have all met the 'experienced horsey type' who hands out advice right left and centre. IMO they are worse than the novice who asks too many questions.

I don't agree however, with the ones who don't ask questions and I do have a problem with non-horsey parents who buy their kids ponies and then just drop them off at yard and let them get on with it.
mad.gif
 
Better to let the kids get on with it than become interfering pushy gymkhana parents... mine weren't horsey so I had to learn by myself and that included saving up and paying for things, and "making do" with rescue ponies. I don't see that as a problem particularly, and 20 years on I'm still in the sport - how many pushed kids got to 15/16 and then packed it all in?
 

good point hate those pushy paretnts
smile.gif
- just thinking of our yard tho - there's a bunch of kids there and none of them seem to know any of the basics. But then learning by doing IS the best way - so long as ponios don't suffer!
 
Have to agree with Toots I'm afraid. Not everyone has the opportunity as a child, and just cos thats the case, shouldn't be frowned upon. Why do lots of horsey people think owning a horse is rocket science, alot of it is basic common sense. People get so passionate about novices not being capable, yet never encounctered this when I was a novice mum and had my first baby, or a novice dog owner when I got my labrador, funny really.
 
[ QUOTE ]

good point hate those pushy paretnts
smile.gif
- just thinking of our yard tho - there's a bunch of kids there and none of them seem to know any of the basics. But then learning by doing IS the best way - so long as ponios don't suffer!

[/ QUOTE ]

Saw one smacking and shouting at their pony the other day because it turned it's head as another pony was coming up behind him.
confused.gif
I admit I have no idea what to do in that situation. Especially when they then stare at me. Makes me think they want me to see?
 

BH - I never thought I would be anti child but honestly apart from one or two most on that yard are horrid! and they just all think they know everything and treat their horses so badly- eg sitting on them for 4 hours a day and beating them when they are too tired to jump. None of them seem to have lessons ever.... anyway going to stop now before I digres into my usual rant - lol
blush.gif
 
There must be a willingness to learn, and a certain unwillingly to let go of the reins after riding.
There is nothing worse than dismounting and handing your horse straight over to someone else to cool down/untack and groom.
I am a perfect example of someone who has rode since they were 7-8 years of age. But that counts for zilch. So what? It's not the riding, it's not the staying on or the number of rosettes, it's the care, the passion to want to thank the horse and make sure it's comfortable before you are.
After 4 years out of the saddle...I have forced myself to start from scratch. I rarely discard a thread as too "novice". I read it and I learn from it in some way.

My Tb mare is on full livery, due to my work committment. After work, when I can't get down the yard I sit reading horse magazine, browsing forums and websites for advice.
Hell I make mistakes. But I don't make them twice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top