Livery bill shock (long rant alert)

I understand you need to study but 8 to 6 & you can't do DIY?

I'm up at 5am to do horses, leave for work at 6.30, start work 8, work through to 4, go to evening work & drive home get back 8-9pm. Yes I only get to ride at weekends (no school). Because I am on a private yard, I am also expected to help out with maintenance jobs such as harrowing, fence repair at the weekend (if I'm not working then as well to pay for the girls). If selling is not an option then you will have to do something. Either take on part time work to have more money to pay or do DIY & do the work yourself.
 
At the moment my cheapest horse (who has no extras such as supplements or medication etc) costs just over £200 a month to bed down and feed. This does not include insurance, vets fees, dentist, farrier, wormers and worm counts etc, OR LIVERY (as I keep him at home). I charge my liveries around £400 a month for full livery. I think you have a very good deal at £300 a month including extras.
 
Find a field to rent and have the horse living out.

Then you poo pick 3 or 4 times a week and cut the cost of bedding entirely. Put a big round bale in as adlib forage or if a good doer a small bale of hay every other day.

Make it simple cuts your costs.
 
I understand why you may struggle to do DIY during A levels (I am a collage tutor) and imagine making parents wake up to ship you about to muck out at 6am then home to shower then off to catch bus/train for college then college finishes at 6 and then train journey home then wait for lift from parents then 2 hours of homework etc - without supportive parents its not really possible unless you can drive. I would try grass livery or just go for morning assisted so you don't have to go up AM.
 
Just a quick question to OP - did you get a livery price given to you when you moved in? Even if I hadn't had a bill I would have been putting that amount to one side each month until I got a bill so that it was ready. My horse is cheap to keep but it is expensive where I live, so I budget £250 a month and if I don't spend this then I leave it to one side for when I do get a biggie. I work full time 7 days a week, from 7am to 4pm on average but at busy times I can be at work from 5am to 10pm. I share duties with another livery, she does the mornings for me, feeds and turns out my horse or skips him out and hays him up if he's staying in, and I go up in the evening and muck out, bring in my horse and her horse and feed/rug etc. On a Sunday I do her morning duties so she can have a lie in. It takes me no longer than 30 minutes to do all my duties in the morning, I make up haynets and feeds atleast a day in advance to save time etc.
 
Ignoring all the speculation as to what it does/doesn't include; is it a reasonable cost to keep a horse (I think it is) although you do appear to be somewhat bullied by YO especially in regard to turnout in the winter.

In your original post it states that the bill swallows your savings. From that I am assuming that your parents don't contribute? You are studying 8-6 for A levels (which sounds a huge amount of hours for an A level student if 5 days a week); are you working or were you relying on your savings to keep your horse until you finish your exams, and, again I assume, get a job?

If you were relying on savings, what were the costs given to you to keep your horse at the yard before you moved it there?

Unfortunately the whole saga smacks of naivety to me, but we have all been guilty of that. I really hope you get somewhere to put your horse DIY but don't think it's a good idea to have it in a field somewhere without any support or company as some have suggested. Your bills however on DIY will not differ hugely from what you have been paying as feed/hay/vets/farrier/dentists remain the same. A 16.2 TB, if not a good doer, can be incredibly expensive to keep, in fact all horses are expensive however you keep them. Good luck
 
I'm struggling with A levels as it is. It took a lot of convincing just to get a horse but I assured them having a horse would improve my grades as I'd have something to look forward too. Before I would sit in school, battle through essays, then at weekends I had nothing to do. My school is primarily a boarding school so all my friends either have to stay in school at the weekends or they live miles away so I was dealing with that typical teenage depression! Since having a horse everyone's commented on how much happier I seem, but A levels are taking up so much time. Naturally I'm not a hard worker. I get distracted very easily so if I had my horse just a 2 minute walk away it would take a lot of motivation to open a folder!
I know I could fit him in on DIY. I could easily wake up at 6 and leave for college at half 7, then spend a good hour and a half in the evenings with him. Convincing my parents that my studying won't slip is the biggest obstacle. Also, I'm at a private school, my parents pay a lot so they are very pushy about me doing well. (Although recently told them I wanted to go into horses as a career rather than a medical profession and they were surprisingly supportive!).
Back to the bill.. I've realised why it shocked me so much. I had budgeted for him to be stabled december-feb when winter is at it's worse but he's been in at night since mid september (YO insisted as he is a tb). They also didn't make it clear that hay wasn't included. They had said that they order it in and I help myself.. Then said that feed and bedding is added to the bill so we assumed hay was included.
Going to write a letter to the lady in my village. She's very snooty (about 8 years ago she criticised my first pony, a new forest for having a big head - like she'd never seen something so ugly before!) but its my only option if I want to keep my horse. Will also speak with my teachers, I have a mentor who knows all about my horse situation because that's all I talk about! If she can understand then may help convince my parents.
This whole thing has really stressed me out! Thanks for everyones sympathy and advice.. Hopefully it'll get sorted :)
Ps. A couple of people have sent me a pm, I can't reply on my phone for some reason but will reply this evening!
 
Having gone to a similar school I can imagine too clearly the pressure you are under to do well

I agree with many other posters that you have been naive but hell you are young and will learn - you just need to find a way out of this

Good luck with it, I do hope you will be able to keep your horse
 
bouncing_ball said:
Perhaps the OH needs a paying sharer? E.g. someone that rides and does chores three days a week, and helps with costs.
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I thought it said there is a paying sharer at some point.

DIY is viable. I leave the house at 7:45 to go down the yard. I do everything super quick (though if someone talks that puts me right out!). My routine for half an hour is:

walk past the boy, grab manger and say hi. Feed store to do quick brekkie and grab rug. nip into hay barn to fill a hay bag (means I only have to do one trip to the field) and carry the lot back to the stable. Change rug. Turn boy out and take hay at same time. Stop by at stable, take haynets. refill and squidge them all into a barrow along with broom and shovel etc. shove trug outside to fill, stick nets up and start to muck out. then rescue one bucket and exchange. one or two trips to dung heap, stop to lock tackroom, lights out and done. then i just need to put down bed in the evening. That takes half and hour as long as i dont get disturbed! lol
 
timiton said:
I
I know I could fit him in on DIY. I could easily wake up at 6 and leave for college at half 7, then spend a good hour and a half in the evenings with him.

I had budgeted for him to be stabled december-feb when winter is at it's worse but he's been in at night since mid september (YO insisted as he is a tb).
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Just a couple of points to comment on the above: Few years ago when I was doing my a levels, there was no way I had 1.5 hours free in the evening to do with as I wished. By the time I had got home, fed my rabbits, eaten my tea, it was 6pm, then had a good three hours worth of work to do.

Secondly, its your horse, so you can do with it as you wish. If the yard does all year turnout, then your horse should be out, as you requested. Yes he will probably need more feed than a native pony, but can quite happily live out. Do they feed hay in the fields over winter? Do they give the horses that are out hard feed, or just the hay/haylage?
 
Alot of yards work on horses being in overnight from about Oct to April.
It is possible to keep a tb out (I've got one myself) but you good rugs plenty of grazing and you will probably need to put hay out at certain times of year or bring him in for extra if you can't put it out in the field.

My tb is a pretty good doer and doesn't get much hard feed but he gets through alot of hay so you need to be prepared for that.

Sounds like it wasn't very clear about hay costs but at £100 a month I would have queried knowing how much hay costs.

I think you need to focus on doing as much as you can yourself as that will be the easiest place to make savings. And a sharer sounds like a good idea.
 
(Can't quote on my phone)
Bouncing_ball - I have a sharer, she rides mondays and tuesdays and pays £20 per week.
Wench - I usually have about 1 hour of work to do in the evenings. We have from 4.30-6pm to do work at school.

My horse was living out before, only coming in in bad weather. I was sharing him before I bought and they didn't take great care of him. He got one scoop of nuts a day, so was quite ribby but not as bad as I imagine some tbs would get in that case. My YO sort of sees him as a rescue case I think. Yes he needed a bit of tlc, and he looks great now but my YO has got a bit excessive about all the things he needed doing and I've been left with the bill for several things I didn't ask for.
 
Right deep breath. Do they offer assisted DIY, i.e where they turn out and bring in for you. If so put him on that and go and muck him out after you have finished college. I know its a long day but I leave home at 7.30am and don't get to the yard until 5.15pm and then ride, muck out and feed. I don't get to my partners house much before 8pm in the evening, then spend an hour there and go home.

It can be done, it is very tiring, I find it hard because of the commuting/walking to/from work more than anything, and the fact that I am constanly clock watching, hence I have cut down and only see my partner five nights a week now.

I would try and move yards if you can.
 
Move asap and get sharer to go with you. Ask sharer if she can contribute a little extra towards the bill. My sharer is fantastic and really helps if I'm a bit skint as she give me a bit extra. Get off that yard though. DIY will be more time consuming but if it saves money then you'll be better off. The lighter nights are only 3/4 months away. So it wouldn't be so bad in the spring and summer should be easy enough.
 
Just read this. I would be furious!

I havent read all the responses but the ones i have seen were good advice, break it down, check with the vet etc.

Personally I wouldnt be happy at all with the delay in the bill, YO needs a kick up the back side, & adding all thos extras without permission is well out of line. If it was me i would move sounds like your are just miserable there.DIY is hard work but rewarding.
 
wench said:
Secondly, its your horse, so you can do with it as you wish. If the yard does all year turnout, then your horse should be out, as you requested. Yes he will probably need more feed than a native pony, but can quite happily live out. Do they feed hay in the fields over winter? Do they give the horses that are out hard feed, or just the hay/haylage?
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It depends on the set up of the yard. I know that my poor doer would happily live out year round, and I could keep weight on her if I had my own field to manage as I wish, but in a livery situation I couldn't. It may well be that the YO is saying that he has to come in due to rules about when 24/7 turnout is allowed or due to other restrictions on how the fields are used.

To keep weight on mine whilst on grass I would need to feed hay and hard feed and I would need to be able to do it in a way that would allow me to ensure she is getting enough. She needs lots but isn't food orientated enough to get any if other horses are competing for it. So although my YO would let me leave her at grass year round she comes in to make sure she gets enough feed.

Many yards have rules about feeding hay in the field so that could be the problem, or it could be that herd dynamics would make it difficult to get enough hay down him, or it may be that the land won't stand up to 24/7 grazing in winter.
 
They have horses living out but apparently I can't turn mine out as the paddocks are still wet, although he did get an hour yesterday and was very happy about it!
I've worked out DIY would come to around £250. Let me know if this sounds about right.
I haven't spoken to the lady so don't know how much she'd charge for livery but guessing £20 (alternatively the field across the road that I rented for my first pony a few years ago was only £5 per week, but that is a very last option as he'd be on his own. Another horse is across the fence but I don't think he'd be happy).
Livery - £100 per month
Feed - £25
Bedding - £96
Hay - £30

(Excluding farrier - £50 (price for full set - but this would be every 5/6 weeks), insurance is covered by my dad and won't have to insure again until next sept, dentist is ~ £50 but again won't need to be done until next autumn).
On DIY I'd get much more riding in, plus the school is much bigger and I know the hacking routes like the back of my hand so I'd feel safer). I'd also know my horse is being properly cared for. I often turn up weekday evenings to find an empty water bucket or his h/w stable rug dumped on the floor so he's standing on it whilst being cold in his l/w turnout!
Got some serious persuading to do!
 
timiton said:
I've realised why it shocked me so much. I had budgeted for him to be stabled december-feb when winter is at it's worse but he's been in at night since mid september (YO insisted as he is a tb). They also didn't make it clear that hay wasn't included. They had said that they order it in and I help myself.. Then said that feed and bedding is added to the bill so we assumed hay was included.
Going to write a letter to the lady in my village. She's very snooty (about 8 years ago she criticised my first pony, a new forest for having a big head - like she'd never seen something so ugly before!) but its my only option if I want to keep my horse. Will also speak with my teachers, I have a mentor who knows all about my horse situation because that's all I talk about! If she can understand then may help convince my parents.
!
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Our tb is out all year unrugged and not hard fed. It's not necessary to keep in simply for breed and I wouldn't be happy with this if others had full turnout!
I'd be requesting turnout from now on if others are allowed it. Rug and feed appropriately.

As to writing to the lady in the village. Do this, but also contacts others locally. Where abouts are you? Worth posting a titled thread with (rough) location on here for field/grass livery recommendations. Then you have more than one option to look at. Also contact local farmers and look on local fb groups. Lots of private stables/fields offer cheap livery with help.
May find it's even worse with someone snooty, there are always options, just sometimes they're very well hidden! But as a temporary arrangement over winter, I'd jump at the realistic priced one.

Request that from now on any additions are in writing with 24hours notice and if refused are not to be used or added to bill and that vet may only be called out in an emergency if you are not contactable.

Explain to your parents that this yard is causing you more time in worrying about money and the horse. Moving to grass livery and working things through with sharer will actually free up time and money. It is also you paying for the horse and who have taken it on, so I'd approach it that way. Rather than asking, put forwards why you are moving.
 
timiton said:
They have horses living out but apparently I can't turn mine out as the paddocks are still wet, although he did get an hour yesterday and was very happy about it!
I've worked out DIY would come to around £250. Let me know if this sounds about right.
I haven't spoken to the lady so don't know how much she'd charge for livery but guessing £20 (alternatively the field across the road that I rented for my first pony a few years ago was only £5 per week, but that is a very last option as he'd be on his own. Another horse is across the fence but I don't think he'd be happy).
Livery - £100 per month
Feed - £25
Bedding - £96
Hay - £30

(Excluding farrier - £50 (price for full set - but this would be every 5/6 weeks), insurance is covered by my dad and won't have to insure again until next sept, dentist is ~ £50 but again won't need to be done until next autumn).
On DIY I'd get much more riding in, plus the school is much bigger and I know the hacking routes like the back of my hand so I'd feel safer). I'd also know my horse is being properly cared for. I often turn up weekday evenings to find an empty water bucket or his h/w stable rug dumped on the floor so he's standing on it whilst being cold in his l/w turnout!
Got some serious persuading to do!
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I'd allow more £ for hay, possibly a little more for hard feed in the winter, but you really shouldn't get through so much bedding, overall £250 pcm minus shoeing is a reasonable budget for pure DIY. Don't forget worming too. And have a slush fund for the little niggly things that come up.
 
OP you say the DIY yard in your village only has 1 other horse in it (seems a bit odd!!), anyway - say you move there, what if this other horse gets taken out for exercise or a competition etc for the day - how will your horse cope/react being left alone? I only ask as one of mine would go nuts and do himself and the stables/field a lot of damage and I would think I'd think carefully before leaving where you are.

Ask your parents to accompany you to the yard and have a discussion with the YO - I assume your parents will now have to assume financial responsibility for your horse? If your savings are now exhausted how are you planning on paying the next 7months or so livery? Tell your parents what has happened, and ask them to take over the dealings with the Y/O, explain that you would like the horse to live out 24/7 if possible, with correct rugs, and feed hay as necessary.

Best of luck.
 
I use shavings at the moment, he has 3 bales a week as he's been in so much but obviously this will decrease as he goes out more. Also the grazing at this other yard is slightly uphill so will be better drained meaning he wouldn't be kept in for 2 weeks following a heavy down pour!
 
Unless your horse is very messy or spends a lot of time in his stable £16 a week should be enough on shavings. I spend more but my horse is a) exceptionally messy b) currently stabled 23hours a day c) currently requires a deep bed right to the door.

On wood pellets or woodchip or straw you could probably do it cheaper.
 
timiton said:
I use shavings at the moment, he has 3 bales a week as he's been in so much but obviously this will decrease as he goes out more. Also the grazing at this other yard is slightly uphill so will be better drained meaning he wouldn't be kept in for 2 weeks following a heavy down pour!
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3 bales a week is a lot! Have you seen them putting the bedding in? Or have they just TOLD you that's how much has been used? I would be very curious about that.
 
If nothing else, this episode will teach you to really do your homework for the future. Ask for EVERYTHING to be written down that will be included for the price, and do not, under any circumstances, move onto a yard until you know this.

I don't like all the suggestions that the horse be turned out - it has already been said that the horse hasn't fared well and is only just getting some cover on him now.. Perhaps next year when he is in a good state, but chucking him out after he has been stabled for a few months just as the weather gets cold will not do him much good..

I have a horse that would easily use 3 bags of shavings a week. A dirty thing. We changed to straw and saved a fortune. 3 bales of straw is less than £8 a week. We spend a lot more on hay for our two (per horse) and they are both natural fatties, so I would double that budget at least.
 
I have just gone from assisted to pure DIY and Im loving it. Complete control over my own horse and what I buy in for him - and a great team of liveries all working together to help each other out - there are 4 of us and 7 horses - I work 26 hours a week and am at college full time and I have two kids - if I can manage it anyone can!!
 
Dot2dot said:
3 bales a week is a lot! Have you seen them putting the bedding in? Or have they just TOLD you that's how much has been used? I would be very curious about that.
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ahem, I'm using more than that.....

In a normal winter I use two bales a week and have to add an extra one every now and then just to top up. At the moment..... I'm trying not to add it up!

The OP needs to be aware that your budget can be completely blown out of the water and needsto be prepared for that. If she isn't earning how would she afford a vets bill? Or a significant period of box rest?

If she is on DIY how would she cope with the work involved?

OP sit down and have a chat with your YO, get your parents involved and make sure you understand what the rules are and what the costs are and lay down what you agree to cost wise. I would suggest sticking with a yard where there is help available but doing as much of the work yourself so that you can save some money.

You could consider asking your sharer to take on an extra day and increase her contribution accordingly or you could consider working livery somewhere as that would really slash your costs and the workload.
 
I have a filthy horse who used to get through 4 bags of hunters a week and his bed never looked clean. If you have one of these move to straw or wood/straw pellets or they'll cost you a fortune. On straw I get through about half a bale a night.

I think your hay costs are a little optimistic, I would work on at least 3 bales a week and alot will depend on whether there is much grass in the field.
 
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