Livery Contract - I've been stupid :(

Sussexbythesea

Sussexbythesea

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Sorry long - I've just moved my horse to a new yard on part-livery (been there a week). This yard normally only does DIY but they have decided to offer some sort of part-livery (no more DIY). It is based on a private estate and it is run by a lady who is lovely and very experienced - works with race-horses and as a stud manager on other parts of the estate - keeps her horses at this yard and does mine while she is at it. She doesn't own the yard and my contract is with the estate - I think it is an amended DIY contract and TBH I don't think they really knew what to put in the contract for part-livery.

The yard is lovely, the people are lovely, the hacking fantastic. I only got it through word of mouth.

I pay £500pcm for all mucking out, feed, T/O, bring in, feet pick out, rugs etc. and I though all bedding So IMO top money for part-livery. BUT although I read the contract I missed a couple of vital points which suddenly came to light tonight whilst looking at the contract again - der!!. The first being that in that they only supply 2 bales of shavings (it doesn't say per week or per month) It just said included in your rent is 2 bales of shavings - I mean how many horses only get through only 2 bales a month when stabled every night? It also says I have to poo pick my field at least twice a week. I have never known a part-livery package require this - the reason I have it is because I can't get up the yard during the week very often and its usually at night if I do. So its not only going to cost me more than I thought - its not even Part-livery - I'm gutted the choice of yards DIY or Part where I live is abysmal unles you drive miles (just moved as was 20 miles away)- I'm stretched financially as it is any suggestions of what to do? I just wonder if they are still thinking DIY rather than part? If you are a YO what would you think?
 
Surely if they did absolutely everything for you, it would be full livery? I think you are getting a LOT for a part livery contract - in my mind, part means that you and your YO split the work about 50/50, so she would do mornings and you'd do evenings or something. I think it sounds like you have an excellent deal there - maybe if you really can't do poo-picking in the week, you could just do twice as much on a Saturday?
 
I dont think for one minute that the 2 bales of shavings is for the month, check that one out. Could you look for a sharer to help with costs etc.? As for the poo picking, is it just your horses poo or are there others in the field too? If its your horse only then its not so bad and it does make the field nicer for him/her. If thats the only downside then I would go along with that one. If theres more than one horse in the field then can arrangements be made with the other owner(s) so that between you its done and you may only have to do it once a week.

If everything else ticks the boxes and you are happy otherwise then its really not so bad. You do need to clarify the shavings situation though and sooner rather than later.
 
At my yard I class part livery as everything bar exercise - That is an additional charge per time.

All yard work & field maintentance is caried out by us (the yard) the livery/horse owner literally just has to turn up & plonk tack on & ride.

We provide two bales of shavings per week, and per week is stipulated in the terms of the contract - Should more than two be required this is also an additional charge at the end of the month.

If you are happy with the care of your horse & the yard in general I would try to talk to your yard manager to clarify things?

For £500 per month our liveries would have their horses cared for & days per week - Could you maybe suggest that you muck out one weekend day in exchange for not poo picking during the week?

I read through each contract its tersm, along with the rules & regs of the yard with eac livery individually at the time of sigining & make sure they fully understand & that I will be meeting their expections & needs.
 
I agree with Tackytoe - I also understand part livery to include everything apart from exercise. If you pay 500PCM for part livery I would certainly not expect to have to poo pick.
 
I think £500 pcm for part livery is quite a lot, more a price for full livery ?

If your YM is a professional person she wont mind in the least if you ask her to clarify a couple of points in the contract for you. You don't need to ask her in a confrontational way - I would say you are struggling with poo picking and that's why you were looking for part livery.
I might all be easily resolved with a small discussion.
 
I think that you have not got true part livery, but the package seems to vary from yard to yard and area. I am on part livery and it is all basic care of the horse (bedding and roughage) but no grooming or hard feed. Full livery is inclusive of exercise and tack cleaning. To me 50/50 is assisted DIY.

I would have a chat with the YO and see if you can come to some arrangement over the poo picking. That is one think I have never had to do in any part livery arrangement!! Not sure when you are supposed to do it, as most people who have there horses on part or full is due to lack of time. I also think 2 bales a month is very tight especially the amount you are paying. I think 1 bale a week should be minimum. Again, I would perhaps have a friendly chat and see if you can come to some compromise agreement as I am sure they probably dont want to loose you over £10-20.
 
Wow, yes it seems it varies from yard to yard. Full livery at mine including everything is £500 per month, part livery is about £300 a month.

I would also say that 2 bales of bedding a month is pretty tight. Maybe if it is an amended DIY contract then a few things may have been accidentally missed...and the poo picking at least twice a week is meant for DIY liveries?

I would have a friendly word with YO to talk about the contract :)
 
Lurky - this is the most expensive part-livery in a 20 mile radius - would you really pay £500 a month if you were mucking out your horse half the time or poo-pick the fields? I got all of the above for £485 at my last yard but it was 20 miles away. I class full-livery as you exercise my horse, groom it and clean my tack - its normally around £650+ a month. Anyhow the price of £500 was agreed for 7 days livery and nowhere in any conversation was it said bedding would be restricted. I'm just hoping the poo-picking is a hangover from the DIY contract and that the wording on bedding is ambiguous enough for me to say that I thought it was 2 per week and get some compromise at least. I feel stoopid - I was just so desparate to move back closer and they were so long drawing up the contract that I had to give notice before it was ready for signing and then of course I had to move so although I looked at it the devil was in the detail.

Just need to make sure I approach it in the right way.
 
At all my previous yards there has been 5 day (YO does everything weekdays and you do weekend), 7 day (YO does 7 days but not exercise) and full livery (everything including exercise, grooming etc).

Our yard is £300 - £400 depending on size of horse, straw (as much as you want)/ shavings (8 bales a month but you can pay for more), hay/ haylage for 5 day livery and you poo pick through summer.

I know you say that the contract says to poo pick twice a week but couldn't you just do it at the weekend as can't really imagine many people can do it in winter with the dark nights. Our old yard use to state 2 wheel barrows per horse (I was in a field just with my own horses so kept it clear but it seemed to work in the mixed fields)

I'd have a chat with YO to just clarify things :)
 
Never heard of part livery where you have to poo pick. Sounds like a hang over from the DIY - so why not be assumptive and when you approach the YO say you had just seen that but had presumed it was for the DIY people.

Part livery has always meant to me that everything is included, bar exercise, tack cleaning and grooming.
 
Man I thought I lived in an expensive part of the world for keeping horses, but its nothing compared to £500 a month. I am on full livery we get all what you have said 2 bales of shavings a week, tack cleaning twice a month and full groom everydayfor £390pcm, exercise, clipping show prep is all additonal charges, we certainly don't need to poo pick. The problem is the services you get now for each type of livery vary considerbly throughout the country. Your part livery is more what I would call Full Livery so wouldn't expect to have to poo pick, but this may be the YO's interpretation of the part livery where certain elements still have to be done by you. In our area hunter livery is full livery with exercise included, full livery is everything you have said, part livery around here usually dosen't include all muck outs certainly not 7 days a week but in some areas thats called 5 day livery and DIY/assisted DIY is do it your self but organise additonal help on a need only basis for example bring ins and turnouts.
I would just ask the YO what is meant by the shavings and poo picking and amend the contract if required.
 
It sounds to me as if you are actually on full livery (minus the exercising).

And I can't believe that you didn't discuss your needs with the YO prior to moving your horse there, so they should be aware of your limited time during the week.

I would make an appointment to speak to them - to clarify exactly what the bedding situation is, and to tell them that for a reduction in costs you can poo pick at the weekends.
 
Don't think you have been stupid at all. It is not a question I would ask on part or full livery as I would expect bedding as needed and no maintenance work at all from the livery. I would hope that it is a hang over from the DIY contract - a friend of mine moved to a new yard and they had a contract which contained some oddities and we found it on the internet from another yard and they had just copied it straight across and not made it relevant to their agreement at all. Hope you get it sorted.
 
Theres a lot of confusion over terms of livery nowadays. Once upon a time there was full livery - where everything was done including exercise, part liver - where all jobs were done, but you exercised, and DIY -which was easy to work out! Nowadays, full livery seems to cover doing all the jobs, but not exercising, part livery is DIY with various extras (turning out/feeding etc), and then there is DIY DIY! Its no wonder there is confusion - every yard is different!

Anyway, regarding the OP, it would be best to actually discuss this with your YO before you got yourself into a worried state discussing it on here - it may well be two bales a week of shiavings - as you said, its not clear...
 
Normally part is everything apart from exercising.

I would imagine 2 bales of shavings is per week, no one could expect a horse to have just 2 a month unless they are on matts and put down a stupid sprinkling (which i hate!)

You need to discuss it with the yard owners, be clear on exactly what you are getting.
 
The definition of what livery is varies quite a lot between yards, so it is always worth going through precisely what is/isn't included in your own personal contract.

Your part livery charge is similar to the part livery charge that I pay, and I would be located in a fairly expensive area. Mine includes 1 x bale of shavings per week, basic grooming, all care, all feed & forage. No exercise. Where I am full livery includes exercise & tack cleaning in addition.

So I agree that £500pcm is a relatively expensive, but not unreasonable, charge for a comprehensive part livery provided there are good facilities and the yard is well run. However I would expect a minimum of 1 bale a week bedding and I definitely wouldn't be expected to poo-pick!
 
Have a chat about it sooner rather than later.

If the contract is an amended DIY contract, the poo-picking requirements may be a genuine mistake in not having been removed from the terms. And with regard to the 2 bales of shavings. For £500 pcm, it had better be 2 bales per week!!!
 
If you can I would bring up with the estate staff that you have found some errors in the contract and book a session to sit down and clarify the points you have raised above

Bring your contracts together and amend both and both parties to initial where any changes are made

Problem solved!
 
Thanks everyone for your input. Got about 2hrs sleep last night worrying over it.
Amymay I did discuss it but its a bit complicated due to the estate being owned by one
person with whom the contract is with (or rather with their estate) but the services are delivered by someone else and I did not deal directly with the estate owner except for a meeting to see if I was the sort of person they wanted on the yard.

I don't want to be seen as unreasonable but most of you have reassured me that it's a bit of a strange contract. Will try to catch up with the yard manager this afternoon.
 
Amymay I did discuss it but its a bit complicated due to the estate being owned by one person with whom the contract is with (or rather with their estate) but the services are delivered by someone else
Click to expand...

So the person who delivers the service is employed by the Estate? Discuss it with the Estate??

Does sound terribly confusing.
 
Part livery to me is everything but tack cleaning and exercise which would make full livery. Poo picking the field yourself when you are paying £500..... that's tosh! people saying part livery is 50/50 that's assisted DIY in my eyes.

I would say it's a typo error and the 2 bales would be a week
 
They do a lot for PL? My yard does feeding (owner supplies and makes up feed though). Change rugs, turn out, bring in, pick out feet and put to bed. Owner has to muck out, and if they are on woodchips, the cost includes one bale of woodchips a week. No riding is included, unless said horse is suitable for students, then they will "borrow" the horse.
We never poo pick, as they prefer to drive the tractor round with the harrow on the back. All that for £280 a month.

I would defo be speaking to who ever the contract is with to clarify!
 
I dont think its that unusual, I used to pay a similar amount for 5 day part livery in the SE and that included 3 bales a week and we had to poo pick on the weeekends/bank hols.

Theres no fixed definition of part livery like there sort of is for full and DIY. By its nature it means part of full livery, only the livery agreement will specify how big a part.

I would expect poo picking to be included except on days when the part livery isnt in operation tho.

But at the end of the day they arent going to change the terms for one new client, presumably there are other liveries, so it will just be a question of deciding whether or not its workable for you.
 
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