Livery Contract Templates

[Bellalily]

I have found what appears to be the perfect yard in regards to my horses' needs. YO only has one other livery there, although about three or four of her own.
I asked all the usual questions and it seems to tick all the boxes. I blooming hope so, not sure which of the three of us is more fed up with faff and expense of moving, although this one is obviously necessary due to house move.
Anyhow, we got on really well and when I got home I asked her to email me a copy of her contract so I could sign and return. She replied that she didn't do a contract. I have had this before and it doesn't end well and involves all sorts of bother about who is responsible for what, so now I won't go anywhere without one.
I thought that was probably the end of it so I have been looking at other yards, but the bigger and more organised ones seem to have precious little grazing and know naff all about stressed grass and horse sick pasture, so I was quite delighted when I heard back from the YO that she'd like to know what to put in it as she's happy to do one for me.
Now I am sure the BHS do one, but I can't find it anywhere, so does anyone know, and I am sure there is someone out there, which would be the best one to use if I can't find the BHS one? One that is very detailed and so we both know exactly where we are with everything.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

There are a few around

https://www.*******.co.uk/resource/...ts should be in,and is from reputable sources.

 

[Bellalily]

There are a few around

https://www.*******.co.uk/resource/livery-contract-templates/#:~:text=Livery contracts should be in,and is from reputable sources.

I didn’t think of there ? I honestly think I’m going to have to give the yard a miss as they’re now asking for cash each month and that really grates with me as I put every single penny I earn through my books. Something doesn’t feel right.
thanks anyway. ?

 

[Chianti]

I didn’t think of there ? I honestly think I’m going to have to give the yard a miss as they’re now asking for cash each month and that really grates with me as I put every single penny I earn through my books. Something doesn’t feel right.
thanks anyway. ?

I think both are still fairly common in the livery world.

 

[Bellalily]

I think both are still fairly common in the livery world.

Really? I can’t remember the last time I paid cash for livery. Not sure I ever have tbh. ?

 

[Chianti]

Really? I can’t remember the last time I paid cash for livery. Not sure I ever have tbh. ?

I am at the moment. Yard is legit in terms of taxes etc but yard owner just prefers cash -very small yard and man who delivers feed likes cash, hay man likes cash, farrier Ok with cash. Yards not near a bank or post office so it makes life easier for yard owner. Also don't have a contract but care is first class.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Well shock-horror go-and-lie-down-in-a-dark-room but I had a livery here for 10 years without a Contract; whilst we weren't close chums I'd known her from Pony Club days when she'd been at a local dealers yard.

IF there were any issues (and there were one or two in that time) we'd just talk about it. Simples.

Now I tend to use a simple contract based on the BHS template but way less complicated!

Bear in mind that both loan contracts AND livery yard contracts have no legal standing and cannot be either enforced or penalties imposed for non-fulfilment.

If you wanted something legally enforceable and binding you'd need to seek the advice of a Legal - and even then (so I understand??) they are not, and cannot be, binding legally.

However that said I do feel it is of advantage to have a written Contract of some sort. We had an issue last weekend with an Owner who'd put her horse on loan at my yard and then - after it only being here 4 days! - suddenly got all precious over it, and she then started back-pedalling about stuff in the Contract that she'd signed such as who was tending to her horse and what future access she would have to it (baulked at the fact I'd said "no" to her having the yard gate key!!). She then, only a day later! (FFS) decided that she wanted her poor horsey back as we were obviously not capable of looking after it properly and "wouldn't let her see it" (not true).

 

[chocolategirl]

I am at the moment. Yard is legit in terms of taxes etc but yard owner just prefers cash -very small yard and man who delivers feed likes cash, hay man likes cash, farrier Ok with cash. Yards not near a bank or post office so it makes life easier for yard owner. Also don't have a contract but care is first class.

Why do you think the government are trying to do away with it?!?

 

[ponynutz]

Can you talk to other livery? Ask for a review type thing?

 

[Arzada]

I didn’t think of there ? I honestly think I’m going to have to give the yard a miss as they’re now asking for cash each month and that really grates with me as I put every single penny I earn through my books. Something doesn’t feel right.
thanks anyway. ?

I really wouldn't pass on a good livery yard because they want cash. Ours is a similar yard and is cash. I have no idea if it goes through any books and TBH I'm not interested. It's not illegal to be paid cash. Some/all of it is used to pay for yard services which require cash payments.

 

[AmyMay]

I really wouldn't pass on a good livery yard because they want cash. Ours is a similar yard and is cash. I have no idea if it goes through any books and TBH I'm not interested. It's not illegal to be paid cash. Some/all of it is used to pay for yard services which require cash payments.

I absolutely agree. Many businesses operate a cash basis business. Doesn mean they’re dodgy.

 

[MuddyMonster]

The best two yards I've been on (current yard and one I was on for years before) didn't have a contract.

Intrestingly, the worst two for me have had the most complex contracts.

I pay cash - had the option of paying cheque or cash but I find cash easier.

I wouldn't not go to a yard based on a contract or request for cash payment.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Really? I can’t remember the last time I paid cash for livery. Not sure I ever have tbh. ?

some of mine pay cash but it is their choice, most do bank transfers now.

 

[Bellalily]

Well shock-horror go-and-lie-down-in-a-dark-room but I had a livery here for 10 years without a Contract; whilst we weren't close chums I'd known her from Pony Club days when she'd been at a local dealers yard.

IF there were any issues (and there were one or two in that time) we'd just talk about it. Simples.

Now I tend to use a simple contract based on the BHS template but way less complicated!

Bear in mind that both loan contracts AND livery yard contracts have no legal standing and cannot be either enforced or penalties imposed for non-fulfilment.

If you wanted something legally enforceable and binding you'd need to seek the advice of a Legal - and even then (so I understand??) they are not, and cannot be, binding legally.

However that said I do feel it is of advantage to have a written Contract of some sort. We had an issue last weekend with an Owner who'd put her horse on loan at my yard and then - after it only being here 4 days! - suddenly got all precious over it, and she then started back-pedalling about stuff in the Contract that she'd signed such as who was tending to her horse and what future access she would have to it (baulked at the fact I'd said "no" to her having the yard gate key!!). She then, only a day later! (FFS) decided that she wanted her poor horsey back as we were obviously not capable of looking after it properly and "wouldn't let her see it" (not true).

I’m aware they have no legal standing. However it does prevent issues further down the line and also shows a degree of professionalism and commitment. As for paying by cash, wow! There are obviously still far too many small businesses not paying their taxes which means their bills are passed onto those of us that do pay. Definitely wouldn’t entertain anyone who asked for cash, no matter how good a place. I’m surprised at the number of you who are most likely aiding these people. Every penny of my income goes into my bank and then onto my books. With cash there is no proof you have paid. ?

 

[AmyMay]

With cash there is no proof you have paid. ?

Yeah, because no business ever gave someone a receipt for paying in cash…… ?

 

[Arzada]

With cash there is no proof you have paid. ?

There is. At our yard.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I've generally been on yards which don't require a contract, but are professional. The worst yard was a BHS one that required a contract. It was shocking on every level, although it did have nice hanging baskets.
Good livery yards are hard to find. My decision is usually based on viewing the yard, facilities, maintenance and watching how the horses, staff and liveries interact. A contract and payment method isn't a part of that decision making.

 

[ycbm]

Can a legal bod explain for us why a contract for livery services isn't legally binding?

I've read in other places that a horse cannot be sold to pay livery debts unless it was in the contract, when it can.
.

 

[Regandal]

I’m aware they have no legal standing. However it does prevent issues further down the line and also shows a degree of professionalism and commitment. As for paying by cash, wow! There are obviously still far too many small businesses not paying their taxes which means their bills are passed onto those of us that do pay. Definitely wouldn’t entertain anyone who asked for cash, no matter how good a place. I’m surprised at the number of you who are most likely aiding these people. Every penny of my income goes into my bank and then onto my books. With cash there is no proof you have paid. ?

Hardly. I pay cash for a few horsey services, no problem with it. If any of those service owners choose to dodge their taxes, none of my business. Actually, I doubt that any of them do.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I’m aware they have no legal standing. However it does prevent issues further down the line and also shows a degree of professionalism and commitment. As for paying by cash, wow! There are obviously still far too many small businesses not paying their taxes which means their bills are passed onto those of us that do pay. Definitely wouldn’t entertain anyone who asked for cash, no matter how good a place. I’m surprised at the number of you who are most likely aiding these people. Every penny of my income goes into my bank and then onto my books. With cash there is no proof you have paid. ?

You do realise that paying in cash for a good or service is very different to paying cash with the sole intention of not paying taxes, right?

Where I am I get a written receipt (and a bonus smiley thank you) and it's logged their end too.

 

[dorsetladette]

I'm a pretty similar set up to the one you describe. I have my own ponies and then one livery. She pays me by bank transfer, simply because its easier for both of us. I don't need that sort of cash every month. But, i do pay my farrier cash (I've always thought it rude to not have the money ready for him when he visits) and the hay man once a year gets cash. The hay man pays his farm workers with cash so it works for him and me. I like the interaction that paying him brings. I pop to his house and drop it in to him in advance of his delivery. He has a lovely hand written ledger on a desk in his hallway. Everything goes in it and is recorded. The guys tax and NI is calculated and written in too. (its my profession so I have a natural interest). Nothing dodgy. His wife goes to the post office to pay the bills when she goes into town.

Seems odd to have such a sweeping opinion of businesses that handle cash. You'll probably find that the livery yard is so small it falls way under any tax threshold anyway (not that that means its ok not to record all transactions). My little yard runs at a massive loss to me as I don't do it for money, but livery fee's is off set against the expense of running the place and recorded.

 

[Arzada]

Seems odd to have such a sweeping opinion of businesses that handle cash.

And their customers who pay cash aid and abet tax dodgers. I mean ... I've even seen people paying cash in supermarkets. I know, in 2022

 

[MuddyMonster]

And their customers who pay cash aid and abet tax dodgers. I mean ... I've even seen people paying cash in supermarkets. I know, in 2022

Outrageous isn't it ? I bought horse feed in cash and a pair of riding gloves in the last few days so I'm probably on a wanted list somewhere

 

[dorsetladette]

Outrageous isn't it ? I bought horse feed in cash and a pair of riding gloves in the last few days so I'm probably on a wanted list somewhere

I leave cash in an envelope for the guy that cleans my windows - maybe we should hand ourselves in to local tax offices now!

 

[Chianti]

I’m aware they have no legal standing. However it does prevent issues further down the line and also shows a degree of professionalism and commitment. As for paying by cash, wow! There are obviously still far too many small businesses not paying their taxes which means their bills are passed onto those of us that do pay. Definitely wouldn’t entertain anyone who asked for cash, no matter how good a place. I’m surprised at the number of you who are most likely aiding these people. Every penny of my income goes into my bank and then onto my books. With cash there is no proof you have paid. ?

How do you make the judgement that people taking cash aren't paying tax? That's a very sweeping statement. Years ago lots of people got a brown envelope with cash in as their wages but they still paid tax. The biggest bloody tax evaders in this country are the huge businesses who have off shore bank accounts. They pay nothing but that's somehow OK. I also disagree that contracts show professionalism and commitment. I've been on great yards with no contract and poor ones with. On visiting a yard to look at possibly moving there I was given a copy of their contract. The first line said that they would try their best to look after my horse. Most of the clauses under that gave them excuses as to why they couldn't be held responsible if something went wrong.

 

[Fieldlife]

Can a legal bod explain for us why a contract for livery services isn't legally binding?

I've read in other places that a horse cannot be sold to pay livery debts unless it was in the contract, when it can.
.

I had this conversation a long time back, when I felt the lack of service should be a breach of contract and enable me to leave without notice, I was a student with limited resources and paying twice was tricky. I have a good friend who is a solicitor.

In my case she didnt feel I had strong enough evidence the contract was breached, and the contract was reasonably worded, and she advised I paid my notice.

Some contracts will be enforceable and some wont, it does partly depend on how they are worded. Many aren't correctly legally worded and therefore aren't enforceable. Others might be enforceable but the cost of doing so means are not likely to be followed up.

Most self drawn up contracts of any type have wording flaws that makes a lawyer able to find a loop hole.

 

[ArklePig]

Was just about to post essentially what @Fieldlife said. A livery contract is as enforceable as any other when it's been properly drafted.