Livery Contract - Vet Euthanasia

RubysGold

RubysGold

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Ive been on this yard for quite some time now and the YO has just come up with a livery contract, so Ive got one here to sign...

I have to sign the bottom, but I dont like the fact that in doing so, I would be agreeing to give others permission to tell the vet to pts if I cant get there to say yes or no

Have any of you agreed to give that permission? Is it quite a normal thing to agree to???? I dont think I want to.
Everything else in the contract is fine :/
 
Realistically it would be for a dire emergency - broken leg swinging in the wind kind of thing. Would you rather your horse waited in pain while you were contacted, say on a flight to somewhere, out of signal, in a meeting or whatever, or that the YO could do the right thing as soon as possible in that sort of circumstances. Other option might be the vet getting a second opinion from another vet (or I think a police officer can also give permission for an injured animal to be PTS if the owner isn't available (thinking strayed animal scenario here!)
 
ooooo..Dont' know and not sure where mine is!! Don't think so though as I wouldn't have been comfortable in signing if it had been listed as a condition.
 
Yep, I have, and without a contract too. In an emergency and with vet's advice my YOs have my permission to arrange euthanasia - it takes a minimum of 35 minutes to get to my yard and that's if I'm immediately contactable. I trust my YOs and their judgement and would prefer my horse didn't suffer unnecessarily.
 
pookie said:
Yep, I have, and without a contract too. In an emergency and with vet's advice my YOs have my permission to arrange euthanasia - it takes a minimum of 35 minutes to get to my yard and that's if I'm immediately contactable. I trust my YOs and their judgement and would prefer my horse didn't suffer unnecessarily.
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Understandable - but what if you're on a DIY yard where the YO's are not horsey? I wouldn't be comfortable with them making the call. But having said that, my friend looks out for Nugz when I am away so I know she would deal with it, but the decision is with her, not the yard.
 
I would sign it, I trust my YO to do what is best for my horse. It would have to be something extremely serious anyway to come to that.
 
Nugget La Poneh said:
Understandable - but what if you're on a DIY yard where the YO's are not horsey? I wouldn't be comfortable with them making the call. But having said that, my friend looks out for Nugz when I am away so I know she would deal with it, but the decision is with her, not the yard.
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Then you get a vet, or two vets, to agree the best option is PTS? Or friends you trust? I wouldn't be comfortable thinking mine would have to wait till I'd been contacted and could give my permission.
 
Vets don't usually pts without the owners permission if the horse can be kept comfortable for however long it takes to get hold of them. As said, we're really talking broken leg scenarios not diagnosis of something you might want to think about. I wouldn't want my horse left to suffer in my absence if I couldn't be got hold of straightaway.
 
I'm on diy with non horsey owners. Vets don't recommend pts unless its the only option (in emergencys anyway) so I have told the vets if its an emergency & yo only person available, & the vet thinks pts is the only option, then yo can authorise it. Don't even have a contract just what I feel I owe the ponies. Wouldn't come to that as its rare I'm not available & yo has a list of my horsey friends who would act in my absence.
 
Surely it would be the vets opinion that PTS was the only option anyway, all they need is the permission. I trust my YO to make the right decision. if the vet is telling them the only option is to PTS asap, then my YO knows to trust that decision and i would stand by any decision they made.
Im sorry but if you cant trust your YO to make that decision i would not be leaving my horse in their care.
 
This is the thing that bugs me, my YO isnt horsey at all, :S Its just a DIY yard where we do as we please.
But I suppose, all he would do is ring the vet and they would be the ones making that sort of decision. Maybe I should have a chat with my vet about it, she's due to give Jimmy a booster in a week or so.
 
Ok say for example your horse got out, broke it's leg in a cattle grid or got on to the road and got hit by a car an emergency contact is the yard owner and they would act on the vets advice not make those decisions them selves

Not sure why it's even a question
 
I thought if the injury met the BEVA criteria for immediate humane destruction, the vet didn't need the owner's permission anyway? Your YO would not be the one making the decision, just calling the vet.
 
Well I have to say I wouldnt like to give a YO any power over me or my horse other than feeding it for me and turning it out.

For this however they would have an alternative contact IE my parents, my best friend and my OH ONLY if they couldnt get them would they be able to make a decision.

Thats the stipulation I have on my other horses loan aghreement, they HAVE to contact these three of they cant get me and ONLY then may they make a decision.
 
We don't have written contracts (!) but I would trust my YO to make the decision, if need be. We have, unfortunately, had the situation a few times recently at the yard. In each case the YO tried to contact the owners; two of them got there in time to agree and in the other case the YO made the decision after advice from the vet. I know she would not take the decision lightly and, as work is about an hour away from the yard (near to home), I wouldn't want H to suffer unnecessarily, just so I felt better.
 
It's been in the two livery contracts I have signed and was not shocked at all to see it and sign that I agree. It is something as owners we need to be prepared for as it's our job to do our best for horses. If you don't have a yard owner in charge as such who you trust to make that decision then you should be able to trust your vets as a practice. As others have said, it is in extreme circumstances and more importantly for the animals best interest. I would be distraught if I didn't get to say goodbye to my boys but I would be more so if they had to wait in agony for me to turn up/be contacted. On an old yard of mine this had sadly happened a couple of times with smashed legs in the field, very sad.
 
Not my livery contract, but think it is in the t's and c's of EGB. I wouldn't want my horse to suffer because I was unconcious and couldn't give permission.
 
zaminda said:
but think it is in the t's and c's of EGB.
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It is, and in all the other affiliated disciplines I believe. If you've been rushed off to hospital, for example, the last thing the organisers want to happen is to have a mortally injured horse, the 'next of kin' 100 miles away, and no-one to make the decision. The OP's YO probably doesn't want to be left in a similar scenario. Vets do have very strict guidelines so it's not like the YO could just decide to do it on a whim.

I seem to remember a police officer has the authority in law too.

If you've got any concerns, have a word with your vet and get your wishes noted on your file, and give a copy of your wishes to your YO - a bit like a living will but for a horse. That way no-one is in any confusion about how far you would want any attempts at treatment to go and who else they can contact for advice in your absence.
 
Very standard to have in a livery contract and I really don't see the problem with it?

If my horse is in such pain that a vet is recommending immediate PTS, I wouldn't want to delay that by my YO not having permission to give the go ahead.
 
When I read the hesitation to sign near the beginning of this thread my mind went back to the very few urgent PTS scenes I've witnessed. I would describe the worst - just have and then deleted, it's not appropriate.

There are sadly times when even the wait for the vet is horrific and the outcome a certainty, if it were my horse or any horse, it's a visceral reaction that there cannot be any further delay.

No vet is going to be shooting a horse with a puss pocket, or anything equally daft - a non horsey YO may think it's something broken but a vet would always be involved. If by some cruel twist of fate such a decision was made in error then a horses life has ended too soon, but it was still done humanely. However, if something prevents the decision when it is so completely needed it is anything but humane.

There's an expression FUBAR BUNDY (would break HHO rules to write in full), once what it referes to is seen it is not forgotten. I could risk my horse dying too soon - I could not risk that.
 
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We don't have contracts but my yo and vets are great i would have no hesitation letting them make a decision on my behalf if i wasn't contactable. Even if my yo wasn't as great as she is, a vet i can trust can do what they know to be right for the horse.
 
My yo has that permission.....i have also spoken to my vets and they have a note on our records that if any of mine coliced bad enough to need surgery and im not there then pts as it's something they know i do not want my horses to go through.

I have a friend if im not there that will also make that decision.
 
Vets don't go around suggesting PTS randomnly! They would only do so in an extreme emergency so their advice should be followed asap to avoid the animal suffering. I would, by far, prefer my horse had a swift and painfree death in an emergency, than to be left in agony waiting from me or my proxy to turn up.
 
I had a day out bird watching Wednesday & had no phone signal for about 6 hours. If my horse had e.g. a major colic or broke a leg I would have been horrified if no one could make a decision on my behalf.
 
I didn't sign mine, but it was separate to the livery contract. Ultimately, its legally within the vets power to pts where there's the type of suffering described above. But they may hesitate due to the fear of legal consequences - that's the same whether they have yo or other persons (who isn't the owner) permission. I would definately talk to your vet. I work with animals and have two colleagues who share a 3 week, 24hr 'on call' rota with me so gave the yard that number as an alternative. My next of kin also know what my wishes would be in such circumstances. I would always want the horse to be pts without delay if it were necessary, but like you I'm uncomfortable having the yo involved in that, and don't believe the contract means much anyway.
 
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