Livery dispute advice
- Thread starter Lb071
- Start date
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
I do wish you'd just been honest in the first post, but saying that, my gelding mentioned in my last post also has been in mixed herds all his life (he's 27) and has mounted two mares in all that time. One was dangerous and incited everything with a penis. That was the one I removed my gelding from (moved yards, as YM was not willing to remove her). I would just tell her to foxtrot oscar...
9tails
Well-Known Member
Do you have sight of her vet bill? I doubt that went through insurance and she's just making a few quid out of you.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
A bill larger than £500 for some stitches, antibiotics and pain killers? tell her to FO.
I had a horse who went head first into a wall, fractured his skull, split his bottom lip in half and had to have 2 teeth wired in place as they were loose. The bill for that, including Xrays, sedation, pain killers, a month of antibiotics and pain killers, and the wiring of 2 teeth by a specialist equine dentist came to just over £500.
I had a horse who went head first into a wall, fractured his skull, split his bottom lip in half and had to have 2 teeth wired in place as they were loose. The bill for that, including Xrays, sedation, pain killers, a month of antibiotics and pain killers, and the wiring of 2 teeth by a specialist equine dentist came to just over £500.
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Just ignore her I really wouldn't worry about it.
Shavings
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't ever have asked some one to pay towards a vets fee in a field accident!
horses are horses and once you let go at the gate (and even some times before!) they have there own mind and will do as they please!
i only asked a livery yard once to pay towards a vets fee as they where at fault, they where told not to remove the grill on the stable before feeding as the horse would throw his head around, they did and he smashed his head on the top bar resulting in staples and a x ray
horses are horses and once you let go at the gate (and even some times before!) they have there own mind and will do as they please!
i only asked a livery yard once to pay towards a vets fee as they where at fault, they where told not to remove the grill on the stable before feeding as the horse would throw his head around, they did and he smashed his head on the top bar resulting in staples and a x ray
HEM
Well-Known Member
I would say she is trying her luck! Don't pay and let her "take you to court"
Threatening you with "legal" action I would think means you are in every right to see the documents stating treatment is costing XX and other owner has an excess of XX with XX insurance company.
Threatening you with "legal" action I would think means you are in every right to see the documents stating treatment is costing XX and other owner has an excess of XX with XX insurance company.
Gleeful Imp
Well-Known Member
I would contact her to say you will not be paying, and you only did so as you felt bullied and under duress to do so. That is important - not that you were bullied, but felt bullied.
Out of interest, did you see the evidence to support both the excess amount and the total amount of the vet bill. I think you are being played.
Out of interest, did you see the evidence to support both the excess amount and the total amount of the vet bill. I think you are being played.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Why can't people just be truthful about the situation when they ask a question?
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Not sure which version of the story, if either, I should believe, but in the scenario presented I would not feel that I owed any money for a field incident. The only exception would be if an owner knew that the horse was a rig or had aggressive tendencies and did not disclose them. Or perhaps if an owner forgot to take jumping studs out and damage was done (I know of this happening!).
The promise to pay may change things, but that would be for a solicitor to assist with.
When you agree to heard turnout you agree with the associated risks IMO.
This on the other hand...
If I was riding my horse and arse ended someone else causing damage I would pay. I would either have been negligent (not looking where I was going?) or not competent to do what I was doing (not in control of the horse). Either way, unless the horse in front stopped suddenly and slammed into reverse, I would say the vet bill would be paid by the person who caused the accident.
The promise to pay may change things, but that would be for a solicitor to assist with.
When you agree to heard turnout you agree with the associated risks IMO.
This on the other hand...
If I was riding my horse and arse ended someone else causing damage I would pay. I would either have been negligent (not looking where I was going?) or not competent to do what I was doing (not in control of the horse). Either way, unless the horse in front stopped suddenly and slammed into reverse, I would say the vet bill would be paid by the person who caused the accident.
The Trooper
Well-Known Member
There's more to it than just saying I was negligent. What i gave was a brief run down of what happened. I'm not saying I personally was blameless, but, when you have hundreds of horses riding 2 abreast along a narrow track and the front horses are going from walk to canter and back constantly it's quite understandable why my mare got confused and managed to get away from me.
chaps89
Well-Known Member
If it helps, my mare came into season earlier this year. She's usually turned out with a 24 yo gelding, who has lived with various different mares before with no issues.
My mare was harassing him, following him and sticking her bottom under his nose. He started mounting her.
Totally unexpected behaviour from both horses tbh - mines never been that bad in season and he's never shown any inclination in behaving that way in the many previous years.
We split them up immediately but in all honesty, it was mine causing the issue and had the gelding been hurt I'd have been offering a contribution to the vet bill. Not because I had to but because I felt it was the right thing to do.
Sometimes you can know horses well but they're horses not robots, you can't always predict their behaviour and this is a risk you accept when turning out in a mixed gender group.
Op, whether you are the mare or gelding owner you are best trying to get some legal advice if you can. Hopefully the dust will settle and you can just move on either way.
My mare was harassing him, following him and sticking her bottom under his nose. He started mounting her.
Totally unexpected behaviour from both horses tbh - mines never been that bad in season and he's never shown any inclination in behaving that way in the many previous years.
We split them up immediately but in all honesty, it was mine causing the issue and had the gelding been hurt I'd have been offering a contribution to the vet bill. Not because I had to but because I felt it was the right thing to do.
Sometimes you can know horses well but they're horses not robots, you can't always predict their behaviour and this is a risk you accept when turning out in a mixed gender group.
Op, whether you are the mare or gelding owner you are best trying to get some legal advice if you can. Hopefully the dust will settle and you can just move on either way.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
That is a strange scenario, but yes it is understandable why a horse going with hundreds of others, two abreast down a track, going from walk to canter and back again would get excited.
I would still say that the person riding that horse would be responsible for having control, training and equipment, leaving a large enough gap to be able to pull up; in that scenario I would also say that it would be reasonable for the people in front, with hundreds of horses behind, to give some sort of notice that they would be going from canter to walk.
We would do this, in formation, with 18 horses. We had a hand signal and loud verbal command to slow down so the riders would know to apply the breaks, as we only had a single horse length between us (troop drill) and it was canter to halt on concrete. All riders would be expected to be able to control their horses, despite being pelted with tennis balls and going over fire. In this extreme scenario we would not have been held accountable for any injuries, although some of us would apply over reach boots to all legs as well as brushing boots and knee boots for an extra precaution as obviously there was extra danger.
In the normal course of things we would not be so close together (when not in that specific exercise).
Hack4fun
Well-Known Member
We don't know all the facts so, unlike many, I will not rush to judge the merits of expecting a contribution. In any event that is not the point. An agreement has been made, regardless of the merits or the opinions of others, and that agreement has been broken. As such, one could look to enforce it. As someone else has said, "is it worth it?" for £200. That is the key question. How strong is the evidence of the existence of the agreement? Is it in writing at all, even on text messages or emails or WhatsApp? How likely is it that you will be able to find the debtor and how likely is it that they have any money to pay you? These are the relevant questions. We do not know anything about these things so there are no grounds to comment further.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Best to read all the posts
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
This was going to be my question! Can’t be that much?
My horse had his leg fractured by a kick from a youngster he was turned out with. I thanked god I had insurance and happily paid my excess. Didn’t occur to me to ask the other horses owner for money. In fact I don’t imagine they even knew what happened tbh.
indie1282
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. Sounds a bit dodgy on all counts. The thing with horses is that they are so accident prone, unless you turnout on it's own there is always going to be some incident with another horse. My friend turned her horse out with a friends horse and it ended up getting kicked, fractured its pelvis and went to horspital, 3 months box rest - the bill went in to the thousands and it was uninsured. She was obviously pissed off but never asked for money towards the bill, even though the vet said the fracture would have been a result of a kick. The pelvis was a problem 3 years after the original injury and she ended up having him pts in the end.
Depending on the injury I *may* offer to pay towards a vet bill if I felt it was my fault. I certainly would NOT pay one penny until I had seen a copy of the vets bill. As other posters have said, a few stitches and antibiotics are unlikely to reach £500.
I think shes having you on and basically wants you to cover the entire bill.
Depending on the injury I *may* offer to pay towards a vet bill if I felt it was my fault. I certainly would NOT pay one penny until I had seen a copy of the vets bill. As other posters have said, a few stitches and antibiotics are unlikely to reach £500.
I think shes having you on and basically wants you to cover the entire bill.
Lb071
New User
I feel so incredibly drained from the situation. I just can’t figure out where the liability lies.
I have joined the BHS to seek legal advice but havnt yet managed to speak to anyone.
There must be equine legislation for these instances but I have been unsuccessful finding any information.
In all my years of owning horses I have never heard of such a situation. I pity anyone who is unlucky enough to have a run in with this person.
I have joined the BHS to seek legal advice but havnt yet managed to speak to anyone.
There must be equine legislation for these instances but I have been unsuccessful finding any information.
In all my years of owning horses I have never heard of such a situation. I pity anyone who is unlucky enough to have a run in with this person.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
You don’t have to figure out where liability lies - that is the court/lawyers job and given you are no where near that point (or imo ever likely to be) then don’t concern yourself with it. Tell the other party where to go and then carry on living your life.
Flyermc
Well-Known Member
What evidence do they have that you'd pay? (what is written on the messages?)
Have you seen a bill from the vets? (the bill seems excessive)
If you havent and you know which vets they use, ask for a quote - How much would it cost, for a call out, examination etc etc, this could give you a rough cost
I dont think you need to pay, but you might do, depending on what was agreed, but id want to see the evidence!
Have you seen a bill from the vets? (the bill seems excessive)
If you havent and you know which vets they use, ask for a quote - How much would it cost, for a call out, examination etc etc, this could give you a rough cost
I dont think you need to pay, but you might do, depending on what was agreed, but id want to see the evidence!
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Just because there’s been an accident does not mean there’s liability you have to have shown negligence to be liable
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Easily you wont win the case as she shouldn't be paying you anything in the first place! If anything, the judge would probably tell you to pay HER her money back! Did you give her money for her vets bill?? Horses fight sometimes, how do you know your horse didn't start it? At the end of the day it doesn't matter as horses of course get hurt sometimes but you accepted that when you put your horse on livery at this yard that turned horses out together.
I have once had someone else help pay my vets bill. However, mine was outwith what I believe was acceptable responsibility. My horse got very upset by huge timber machinery bringing down trees right by my horses field, he ended up injuring himself massively after I put him in the stable to try and stop him going through the fence. After trying with the vet for a week to deal with his injuries, it resulted in me having to put him to sleep. I was extremely upset and complained to the landowner (I hadnt been warned they were going to be so close that day so I was out and therefore my horse had been allowed to get in such a state). They paid half my vets bill. However, that was a totally different type of scenario... and I certainly did not demand they contribute.
BTW, is it really worth considering small claims? It costs you £100 to register the complaint, and then they dont even HAVE to pay (unless you want to pay even more to get court enforcers involved). I should know, I won a small claims case last year against some builders that had totally screwed me over. The court say I won and he should now pay me over £4,000. However, they dont do anything about it. The builder has done a runner abroad so now it'd cost me a lot to get court enforcers to chase him down. Even then he may have nothing to offer by way of payment or items! Small claims really are a waste of time.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I think you may find that the BHS won't deal with a legal matter that occurred when you weren't a member. It is like an insurance, and therefore it is not really fair on current members to wait until you need legal advice and then join.
I am happy to be proved wrong though!
moosea
Well-Known Member
I'd keep all the messages you have. If the owner contacts you again I'd email/ whatssap her and state that it is not your responsibility to pay her vets bills, that further contacting you regarding this matter would cause you distress and harassment and that if she continues to harass you that you may need to take legal advice regarding the matter and you may need to claim the costs associated with this back from her via small claims court.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
MM, the OP has switched sides now.
Much easier if she had just said so in the first instance then people wouldn't still be taking their time to write helpful posts for someone else!
Much easier if she had just said so in the first instance then people wouldn't still be taking their time to write helpful posts for someone else!
fabbydo
Well-Known Member
I smell something. Oh yes, it's troll.
Rowreach
👀
I hesitate to even get drawn into this thread, but seriously, you are that bothered over £200? The rights and wrongs are neither here nor there (and who knows what the whole story is anyway), but it's not like you're going to lose your house over it - either pay it or don't.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I have to agree drained ,needed to move the horse over 200 pounds if Op did not want to pay it she should just have said no .
miss_c
Well-Known Member
Funniest thing I’ve read this year!
You turned your horse out in a mixed herd. You accepted the risk of injury. I am amazed they agreed to pay anything, more amazed you had the absolute nerve to ask, and think they’re better off on a yard away from you!
Save your money and everyone’s time. You don’t have a case. It is part of having horses!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
you need to read the rest