Livery for cribbers??

[HensPens]

I've just bought my first horse and I'm busy trying to find somewhere to put him! I saw one perfect yard but the owner states that she won't accept anything that cribs.

Does your yard accept crib biters?

If your horse cribs have you had problems getting it on a yard?

I would really rather not put a collar on him as clearly he is doing it for a reason and that's mean stoping him. Hoping to start him on something to try and sooth digestive discomfort to see if that helps too...

 

[Barneykins]

There is one on my yard but it has it's window covered in wire mesh and an anti weave V bars on the door. I always feel sorry for it. There are yards I know that will not accept any horses with vices cribbers, weavers even door kickers! Look around tho. Good Luck

 

[Charlie007]

My horse cribs and I have never had a problem with livery. I would never try to stop him from cribbing cus as you say they are cribbing for a reason. My horse only does it after tit bits or feed so I think he may of, in the past, possibly suffered ulcers. Where abouts are you?

 

[mahorse]

When I bought my horse she was in metal barred stable within a barn which had a V door, and I was told she had no vices. Within a week she started nibbling at her window when I got her to new yard at home.... She has also chewed wooden fence when she was turned out.
Plead ignorance!!
I'd also add she does not windsuck, she is a chewer of wood but I am concerned she will start windsucking also....

 

[RunToEarth]

Interesting topic.
My friend at uni was doing her dissertation on horses cribbing, and whether it is a learned trait- whether other horses on the yard could pick up the bad habbit. Down at uni anything that cribbed was stabled in a seperate yard. Personally, if it was something my horse could pick up, I would not stable it at a yard with cribbers.
My horse weaves, but that is a motion thing, and he only does it if he is left in his stable during the day.
I know a lot of yards won't accept cribbers- when we did livery at home we wouldn't take on anything the cribbed or windsucked.

 

[HensPens]

Kaz007 i'm in Cheltenham in Gloucestershire.

Going to view a yard on Sunday and now I'm worried about it, the yard I looked at before wouldn't allow them in case other horses copied which is simply nuts, I don't copy when I see people bite their nails!

 

[sugarlump121]

We had 1 at our yard was stabled next to a mare i had but she had a weaving grill and she did her stuff behind that.

To be honest though I wouldn't want a horse that cribs in with my boys as I know my youngster would copy- he's already learnt some not so good things from a horse he was with for a year...

 

[_HP_]

Its a shame some are discriminated upon...cribbing is not usually copied but horses kept in a similar environment may pick up the same habits which are often confused with having been copied.

 

[Charlie007]

Too far away, shame our horses could have cribbed together. Others copying is rubbish. Some may start cribbing if kept in the same stressful environment, but thats not copying, its reacting to stress. If my boy hadn't of cribbed I would not have been able to afford him!! Its such a shame these horses are labelled as it is us (humans) that created these vices in the first place!
I hope your viewing goes well.

 

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
Kaz007 i'm in Cheltenham in Gloucestershire.

Going to view a yard on Sunday and now I'm worried about it, the yard I looked at before wouldn't allow them in case other horses copied which is simply nuts, I don't copy when I see people bite their nails!

[/ QUOTE ]
They DO copy eachother, studies show thay young horses will copy the actions of known cribbers.

 

[Bosworth]

As a YO I will not have cribbers. they destroy the stables, they eat the fences, the basically cause a lot of damage. Unless they have specialist fencing and stables that are covered in metal and to be honest I am not prepared to spend the extra money making my stables crib proof. To be honest I get enough damage from horses without behavioural problems to entertain the thought of having one with a known destructive habit. As for pleading ignorance I would be pretty annoyed if a livery did that to me and I would ask them to leave without hesitation.

if however it was my own horse only - and it was my own land then I can make the place crib proof. I can use electic fencing, I can cover my stable walls with metal mesh. and the door with a metal top. I can ensure it never has access to any wood to chew. But that is totally different on a livery yard,

 

[ester]

I thought that it had recently been shown that horses did not pick up stereotypies from other horses.

the problem with cribbers are that they do also cause a lot of damage to stable and field fencing, as a opposed to say a weaver. And many owners do think horses pick stuff up and would not want to be stabled next to such a horse so it keeps YO life easier.

 

[russianhorse]

ok, after reading all this - im starting to wonder if my old boy is cribbing

He's out 24/7, but I believe he's lonely (although YO disagrees). He's been pulling out the wooden fence posts, but with the amount of teeth marks on the wooden posts, it looks like he has also been chewing them. He also had a little chew on my fork handle........

Its just a recent thing, but he doesnt suck air with it, so now Im confused with all this talk about how cribbing hoses destroy all wood surfaces.....

 

[russianhorse]

I meant horses not hoses - DOH!

 

[Laafet]

Well I had a Psychologist from Southampton uni do some work on a cribber I had and he said the cribbing was not copied as it was more like a drug addiction. Weaving and box walking are learned as it is common in stressed horses and the motion stresses the other out and they do it too. If cribbing was a learnt thing then the foals of cribbing mares and all racehorses would crib, which they don't.
I have no problems with cribbers and when my boy started box walking was mortified we have now cured it with a mirror, he had seperation anxiety, cribbers can rarely be cured as they have a different reason for their behaviour.

 

[mainpower]

I have a small DIY yard and one of my liveries cribs/windsucks/weaves and box walks. When he was a yearling thugs set fire to his stable and he has stressed ever since. Although he has settled down a lot since moving to my smaller, quieter yard he still does it. I had no qualms about taking him on, I have owned/done several windsuckers and always thought it wasn't a copied behaviour. I have a 2 1/2 year old gelding, he's been on the same yard as the above horse in the year I've had him, no problem at all, until I moved him to the stable opposite after a year of living on the same side of the yard, and he has started weaving. No change to his routine or management, only that he can now see the other horse weaving, so I've now changed my views and think that "vices" can be copied by impressionable youngsters.

 

[RunToEarth]

Crib biting is where horse swallow air, whilst resting and chewing with their teeth, which can be done silently, so it is difficult to tell whether your horse is taking in air.
Wind sucking achieves the saem result, but the chewing of fencing isn't there.

 

[russianhorse]

[ QUOTE ]
Crib biting is where horse swallow air, whilst resting and chewing with their teeth, which can be done silently, so it is difficult to tell whether your horse is taking in air.
Wind sucking achieves the saem result, but the chewing of fencing isn't there.

[/ QUOTE ]


so it is possible he's just developed this then.........could this behaviour be because he has no companions?? - he does seem VERY lonely (except when im there, which now is twice a day, but I cant really play with him like he seems to want to!)

 

[ester]

differently rosie I have always classed crib bitting as chewing on the wood with top teeth and not taking in air.

Windsucking as chewing on wood while sucking in air

and some acclompished windsuckers do it without anything to chew on.

russian horses it depends what you see your horse do tbh, neither of mine are cribbers but both like to have a chew on and eat the wooden rails at times (we have an electric top line on most but the other are a bit chewed) They have also leant over the fence and removed some of the rubber from the trailer!

 

[Tinypony]

[ QUOTE ]
They DO copy eachother, studies show thay young horses will copy the actions of known cribbers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Please could someone give a reference to these studies? All the scientific studies I know of haver proved that horses DON'T copy stereotypical behaviours such as cribbing. In cases where people think that horses have started to copy there are other explanations. So I'd be really interested to read about this.

 

[Spudlet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Crib biting is where horse swallow air, whilst resting and chewing with their teeth, which can be done silently, so it is difficult to tell whether your horse is taking in air.
Wind sucking achieves the saem result, but the chewing of fencing isn't there.

[/ QUOTE ]


so it is possible he's just developed this then.........could this behaviour be because he has no companions?? - he does seem VERY lonely (except when im there, which now is twice a day, but I cant really play with him like he seems to want to!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be. There are horses that cope all on their lonesome, but they are very few and far between - the vast majority need company of some kind - ideally equine, or failing that human (more than twice a day!) or another herd animal - eg sheep.

I would look into getting your boy company - moving to a yard with other horses or getting a companion horse/pony from a charity.

 

[russianhorse]

[ QUOTE ]
differently rosie I have always classed crib bitting as chewing on the wood with top teeth and not taking in air.

Windsucking as chewing on wood while sucking in air

and some acclompished windsuckers do it without anything to chew on.


Thats exactly how I thought the the vices worked, but with crib-biters it was only when stabled......

My old chap grabs the wood between his front teeth squeezes hard and pulls upwards with just his head - im pretty certain hes not sucking, as his head doesnt tuck into his neck. And then he just does it over and over a couple of times before wandering off to graze (not sure if Ive explained it clearly! lol)

 

[russianhorse]

Could be. There are horses that cope all on their lonesome, but they are very few and far between - the vast majority need company of some kind - ideally equine, or failing that human (more than twice a day!) or another herd animal - eg sheep.

I would look into getting your boy company - moving to a yard with other horses or getting a companion horse/pony from a charity.

[/ QUOTE ]


yeah, im trying that - I did ask my YO if i put another horse/pony/donkey in his field but shes very reluctant and reckons he's fine

However im still waiting for her to come back to me with a definite decision (althoiugh i have secured another field, but cant have it until July!).....think I will continue to plod round trying to find somewhere else

 

[russianhorse]

oh btw, thank you for all who have responded to my witterings

and a massive sorry to OP for hijacking your post

 

[ester]

russian horses from what you say I would class that as cribbing.

 

[HensPens]

[ QUOTE ]
a massive sorry to OP for hijacking your post

[/ QUOTE ]

It's okay... it would appear that you're going to have to join me in having a social outcast horse anyway, so hijack away

 

[Dot1]

I have a social outcast too!

Our 6 yr old tb cribs, we were aware of this when we bought him and never had a problem finding a livery yard. He does wear a collar as unfortunately despite numerous studys to show cribbing does not cause colic, he coliced seriously two months after we bought him! And he had to have colic surgery, it isn't worth the risk so he wears a collar. It doesn't rub or seem to cause lots of discomfort but I admit I wish he didn't have to wear it.

I did have another horse who cribbed and never coliced, one livery yard manager was adament he had to wear a collar and another didn't mind as they were sure the behaviour was not learnt. You will find a suitable yard, there are plenty of horses which crib on lovely yards!!

Oh I think someone described cribbing as a 'behavioural problem' it's not! Its sterotypical behaviour, I don't think cribbing should be put in the same catagory as a horse that kicks or bites!!

 

[Clodagh]

I agree with Rosie, I call a cribber a horse that rests its front teeth and sucks in air whereas a windsucker does it without leaning on anything.
I wouldn't have either as I can't stand the noise!
I have a young pony who chews for England but doesn't seem to crib, her front teeth are worn though.

 

[Booboos]

[ QUOTE ]
They DO copy eachother, studies show thay young horses will copy the actions of known cribbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you reference this please because as far as I know the opposite is true.

Horses DO not copy stereotypical behaviour e.g. for a summary of various studies see

Equine Vet J Suppl. 1999 Apr;(28):20-5.

Understanding equine stereotypies. Nicol C.

although people do mistakenly think they do, e.g. see

The Veterinary Record, Vol 148, Issue 26, 799-802
Copyright © 2001 by British Veterinary Association


Management of horses showing stereotypic behaviour, owner perception and the implications for welfare
S. D. McBride BSc, PhD1 and L. Long BSc, MSc1

 

[alwaysbroke]

QR one on our yard weaves in the stable to the extent that the floor behind is stable door has a dip in it, he is so bad he sounds like a flamenco (sp) dancer, he also cribs but only in the field, fortunatley YO doesnt seem to mind, and sorry the yard is full!