Livery...how much is too much??

[Hayday2015]

We have a small private yard in the Teesside area. It has always been DIY in the past but we are looking into offering part and full livery. It is becoming increasingly fustrating as many people are saying oh it's too much, so here goes....

Facilities: large airy stables well suited for even the larger horses, outdoor school (smaller than average but still suitable for schooling and popping the odd jump), over 400 acres of off road hacking on the property with another bridle path 1/2 mile from our road, all year turnout (enough space fir individual or group as needed), one individual tack locker for storage for each stable (floor area will easily fit 2 feed bins), 24hr cctv and secured gates at night, rug washing facilities on site.

Prices:
Part Livery including hay, haylage, straw, 5 days a week full care (am and pm feeds, rug changing, muckout, turnout and bring in, pick out feet, and a nighttime check to top up hay, water and pick out stable, outdoor poo picking as required) and 2 days a week am feed and turnout. Therefore owner will provide hard feed and do PM duties on 2 days a week. Prices range from £50/week for under 12.2 to £65/week for over 16.2

Full Livery is full care as above for 7 days a week. Owner to provide hard feed. Prices from £62/week for under 12.2 to £80 for over 16.2

Schooling, lunging, grooming packages can be added at discount and rug washing is provided at a discount as well.

Sorry for the novel but my question is...Is this reasonable? and if not, what is? what would you pay? It is fustrating when people say it's too much when you know youself you are only making pennies from it and could not even hire someone to do the work if needed as there would then be no profit as well.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Ormsweird]

Uh, if you were near me I'd be there like a shot.

 

[be positive]

People seem to expect livery for peanuts, when you break it down you are charging less than £12 per day for the biggest horses on full livery they wouldn't get B&B for themselves for so little.
Your rates are low if they took time to break down what they are getting, stable, bedding, hay plus not having to use fuel twice daily then they are probably getting a better deal than most DIY yards offer, maybe that is the way to show people what they are getting for the money, there is little profit for you at those rates, they probably see it as 100% profit forgetting how much DIY costs in real terms.

 

[ihatework]

No it's not too expensive.
Your problem is that many horse people seem to think a yard owner / manager should be subsidising their expensive hobby.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Better to charge more and get people who can afford their hobby. Don't work for pennies, it makes no one happy.
It is easy to lose sight of the fact that this is a business and the liveries are your customers.
In order to have two days off work, increase the sat / sunday prices.
Add a premium for sourcing feedstffs etc.

 

[Leo Walker]

Its the area. Thats where i'm from originally. I cant think of a full livery yard that makes a go of it. People just don't want to pay. Its a very poor area, the most deprived area in the UK apparently, according to a newspaper article I read the other day.

I'm "down south" in Northampton and pay £49.50 a week for what you offer, but 2 days full, 5 days assisted DIY, and I pay for all hay and straw on top. I think its very cheap! I'm not sure what the answer is. Is there something you could offer that other yards dont? Child free yard maybe, or transport to competitions, RC on site etc. Not really sure what, but something that sets you outside the norm

 

[kc100]

Full livery in my area (west mids/Warwickshire) is around £100-£150 per week to include exercise, part livery typically around £80-£90 per week for 7 day care. That does typically tend to include hard feed but not at all yards. So no you are not even remotely too expensive!

Ultimately you are running a business, not a charity - so you need to work out what to charge based on covering your costs and making a profit. If people are moaning its too expensive, then clearly they are not the right kind of people for your yard and I wouldnt worry about it. So many people want livery for nothing, they dont understand the costs of running a yard and all the maintenance to keep the facilities in good working order.

Its your business, so charge what you need to in order to make money off it - you are not there to do anyone a favour by making a loss on your services so stick to your guns!

 

[On the Hoof]

Uh, if you were near me I'd be there like a shot.

me too!

 

[Micky]

Wow sounds great! The 400 acres to ride around would do it for me..yes perfectly reasonable when you think some places are offering not much ( too little land, unmaintained paddocks, no school, crappy stables etc... on DIY for £25/30 a week, never mind part or full!! So yes I would be happy to pay that..

 

[pixie]

Hmm, I charge slightly less than that for part (full care mon-fri including poo picking, DIY weekends) livery, excluding hay/haylage/bedding (this is charged as it is used), and we don't have a school.
If I were you, I would take forage and bedding out of the livery charge and just charge for basic facilities and services. Also, provide a clear list of how much each of these services would cost if added onto DIY.

In my experience, the people who are happiest to pay good money and do things like poo-picking, are those who have had their own land previously and know how expensive and time consuming it is to maintain.

 

[madlady]

No you aren't too expensive.

Full livery in my area is £120 pw

 

[CBAnglo]

When I was on full livery it was because I had a full time job and didn't have time to do my horse twice a day. During the week I could only ride in the evenings so needed a decent floodlit school; for full livery I think you need to have the facilities to match. If you have loads of fields I would set one up as a jumping field in the summer; I would be turned off by a small school that I couldnt jump in.

 

[starsky]

7 day part is my area (Windsor) is 600ish per month and there are a couple of yards that charge 1000+!!!

 

[PorkChop]

Another who thinks that is incredibly reasonable, in fact I don't know how you do it for that price!

 

[applecart14]

The yard by me charges £160 per week for full livery. They have one indoor school, a grass and an all weather gallop and are putting in a large outdoor school. They have parking and a massive horse walker. Very expensive though.

 

[Goldenstar]

I don't think your too expensive .
However as with any buisness you have to look and see if there is a market for the product as this may well be your issue ,you are offering a product that's to expensive for the market in your area.

 

[Tnavas]

Full Livery should be that FULL - not bits and pieces dropped. Full livery should include Stable, Bedding, Feed, Hay, Mucking out, Grooming, Exercising, Tack cleaning, turn out, bring in - 7 days a week. If any of these are dropped then the service is Part Livery.

You need to consider that those that are choosing to have their horse on full livery may have jobs that prevent them getting to their horse for a week or two at a time. They may not be up at the weekend because their job has sent them overseas for 10 days. I had mine on Full Livery for a while when my job got extremely busy with horrendous deadlines and we worked 7 days a week for a month. Every thing was done for me and my horse. Yard also got horse ready for rider when they did get to come and ride.

At the price you are offering I'd jump at the chance - if I were in the UK. I currently pay equivalent of 30pounds a week for pure DIY grazing.

Please remember to be Business minded - too many livery businesses fail because the owners are just too soft when it comes to charging. Advertise yourself as 'The BEST in the Area offering the BEST facilities, the BEST care, the BEST hacking, really sell yourself.

Good luck

 

[chocolategirl]

No it's not too expensive.
Your problem is that many horse people seem to think a yard owner / manager should be subsidising their expensive hobby.

Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm a YO btw who DOES subsidise my clients hobby! OP depending on your competition, you should charge the going rate I would like to bet people will pay it. What I find really frustrating is that if all livery yards charged what they should be charging, it would be worth running a yard. This is why I'm all for yards being licensed as it would make it a fair and level playing field. Sadly we don't live in an ideal world, my livery (DIY) should be at least £35-40pw to make it pay but unfortunately in my area there is a glut of yards charging anything from £15-£30pw so I have to stay competitive. Before you ask why I carry on btw, it's for many reasons which I have stated in previous threads on this forum, one of which is definitely not to get rich lol!

 

[Greylegs]

I pay 425 per month plus bedding (shavings, as yard won't have straw!) for full livery for a 14.2 highland. We have extensive off road riding too, but pay an annual permit fee for using it, but also have a good indoor which is great in bad weather. Given that, I don't think you're too expensive at all.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

We have a small private yard in the Teesside area. It has always been DIY in the past but we are looking into offering part and full livery. It is becoming increasingly fustrating as many people are saying oh it's too much, so here goes....

Facilities: large airy stables well suited for even the larger horses, outdoor school (smaller than average but still suitable for schooling and popping the odd jump), over 400 acres of off road hacking on the property with another bridle path 1/2 mile from our road, all year turnout (enough space fir individual or group as needed), one individual tack locker for storage for each stable (floor area will easily fit 2 feed bins), 24hr cctv and secured gates at night, rug washing facilities on site.

Prices:
Part Livery including hay, haylage, straw, 5 days a week full care (am and pm feeds, rug changing, muckout, turnout and bring in, pick out feet, and a nighttime check to top up hay, water and pick out stable, outdoor poo picking as required) and 2 days a week am feed and turnout. Therefore owner will provide hard feed and do PM duties on 2 days a week. Prices range from £50/week for under 12.2 to £65/week for over 16.2

Full Livery is full care as above for 7 days a week. Owner to provide hard feed. Prices from £62/week for under 12.2 to £80 for over 16.2

Schooling, lunging, grooming packages can be added at discount and rug washing is provided at a discount as well.

Sorry for the novel but my question is...Is this reasonable? and if not, what is? what would you pay? It is fustrating when people say it's too much when you know youself you are only making pennies from it and could not even hire someone to do the work if needed as there would then be no profit as well.

Thanks for reading!

That is cheap livery by today's cost when you tot everything up they do and supply, I don't see how they can make ends meet.

Here Part livery is 98 per week 7 days a week inc poo picking hay feed etc.

Full livery varies £ 150 in some yards

 

[LHIS]

I'm going to echo many others and agree that your prices are not expensive. Full livery around me starts at £100+ per week easily. At the yards with the mega facilities I can't imagine you'd get much change from £125-150/week easily.

Of course the going rate varies place by place, so it depends where you sit in terms of what other yards offer.

 

[kassieg]

The only other yard around this area that I can think of that does part & full livery I'm pretty sure is £60 per week part & £100 per week full.

Think its difficult to judge on how many people would actually pay for the service though, sadly people want something for nothing nowadays

 

[Abi90]

For Basic Livery (which I think would be termed part at most places I pay £74 a week.

This includes:

Muck out
Turn out
Bring in
Feet
Rug change
Basic hard feed
Haylage
Bedding (2 shaving bales a week)
A lesson a week OR horse exercised once a week.
It's for 7 days, including bank holidays.

The yard has 3 staff members who rotate their days off so there are always at least 2 staff on the yard, hence they can provide 7 days a week.

This is is Northumberland where livery is very cheap. I used to be in Leicestershire where I paid £100 a week for less stuff.

Your prices seem very reasonable but it depends where in the country you are.

 

[wench]

Echo others, the price is cheap, but then if you havent got the facilities to "match" full livery, people wont take you up on it. I wouldnt be able to, I ride my horse in the evening.

Whilst acess to brilliant hacking would be a bonus for the weekends, even in summer I dont get to the yard in time to make it worthwhie going for a hack, I stick to the school.

 

[9tails]

Are you offering this part and full livery to your current DIY liveries? Because if my yard told me that they were going to only do part and full livery, here are the prices, I would also say it's too expensive. What I would mean to say is that I don't want you to do my horse as I picked DIY livery for a reason. They're most likely saying it's too expensive while frantically looking for another DIY yard because they want to be on DIY.

 

[Hayday2015]

We are of course offering it to our current DIY liveries however they have the option to continue on DIY. We have a seperate price list for them if they do require the odd feeding or full livery day/holiday cover etc. they do take advantage of those services and all have said the price is appropriate. The part and full is for new people coming in as I would like a variety of both Diy and then either part or full. It has been the people that are enquiring that say its expensive. I realise that there are fewer facilities than yards around us and that is reflected in the price. I might have to reconsider and just try to fill the stables as diy??

 

[OWLIE185]

You are far too cheap and will loose loads of money.
I suggest you calculate your costs again.
For full livery I would be expecting to pay £250 per week.

 

[9tails]

£250 per week, Owlie? Who can afford that in Teeside?

It's very difficult to mix different liveries, and how come these people are viewing without having an idea of what you charge? Tell them up front that you're only offering part or full livery and £x and £y, then you won't get those that want part or full at DIY prices.

 

[ihatework]

We are of course offering it to our current DIY liveries however they have the option to continue on DIY. We have a seperate price list for them if they do require the odd feeding or full livery day/holiday cover etc. they do take advantage of those services and all have said the price is appropriate. The part and full is for new people coming in as I would like a variety of both Diy and then either part or full. It has been the people that are enquiring that say its expensive. I realise that there are fewer facilities than yards around us and that is reflected in the price. I might have to reconsider and just try to fill the stables as diy??

What you are charging for what you offer is perfectly reasonable, to the point of being on the cheap side. However there are obviously a couple of things to consider:
A) location and the market - if you are in a poor area whereby people struggle to afford their horses then it might just be there is little to no market for part/full at all
B) facilities - from my experience a lot of people in part/full like access to a decent school with lighting. There will be a proportion of potential part/full clients who wouldn't consider your yard irrespective of cost, they would opt to pay more for a better school.

You might be better to evaluate DIY in your area and see if there is scope to raise your standard DIY and service charge slightly to increase income

 

[wingedhorse99]

£250 per week, Owlie? Who can afford that in Teeside?

It's very difficult to mix different liveries, and how come these people are viewing without having an idea of what you charge? Tell them up front that you're only offering part or full livery and £x and £y, then you won't get those that want part or full at DIY prices.

Do you have an all weather, good surface, lit school that is at least 20 x 40? It isn’t clear? If so great, if not, I think you’ll struggle with filling the part / full livery places.

I’m in surrey on assisted DIY, and think my DIY costs for a large warmblood, with turnout one end of the day, rent, bedding, hay are not a lot under £65 a week, before you get to the other services you offer for part livery!!!