Livery late payers

I write and hand out the bills around the 23rd of each month, they are payable by the 1st. Most clients pay me by bank transfer, one pays cash and always early. I've had bad payers before and was really relieved to see them go ;)
I'm generally sympathetic to peoples' hardship, but can't really afford to be anything more than that.
 
People on my old yard were not paying livery on time. The yard owner would write on everyone's invoice and highlight it, that the bill was to be paid within 7 days.

If I had my own yard and people persistently never paid on time or had to be chased I would give them months notice. You are not their PA/accountant and people shouldn't have to be chased to pay livery. They know bloody well there is a bill at the end/start of every month!
 
My yard gives us our bills on the 1st and you have 7 days to pay it after that there is a £5 a day or week ( cant remember as I pay my bill on time ) charge to your bill.

They are pretty good though, if you are struggling they will be quite lenient and let you what you can when you can. Although I do think they get the odd few who take the pee
 
Rose Folly said:
I sympathise. As others have said, a standing order is the best and easiest way. And I always find that the nicest and most helpful livery is the one who always pays late!

However, with consistent late payers I get grumpy. I cannot understand the mentality. If you get goods in a shop you don't expect to walk out and pay later. Why should livery charges be any different? It's dishonest, pure and simple.

A YO friend of mine got so fed up he 'confiscated' all the horse's tack. Unorthodox - but the girl paid up next day.

I'm always happy to help where there is genuine hardship, and those liveries have always paid me back in full. But continual late payment is manipulative and often deliberate. If you can't afford to pay for your horse - don't have one!
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Yes, the persistent late payer is manipulative. If they cannot manage their finances why use you as their bank? Think the early billing is essential. as is taking a refundable week's rent in advance, contract ( signed!) and a board in full view of all is a great way to keep people on their toes. Poor payers ought to be named and shamed - one of mine, when told to pay up and also do her share of yard duties, walked out, less than a weeks notice, bouncing cheques ( and still not paid) and it turns out she is well known for it. How do these people get a livery to take them if you have no knowledge of what they are like?
 
I really don't understand the point of giving invoices on the day they are due to be perfectly honest :confused3: Send them out a week before payment is due. I have had people over the years who take the pee and I don't let it slide. If they haven't sent payment by the 2nd then I contact them and ask them to pay straight away, no beating about the bush. A friend of mine owns a livery yard and she previously seemed to have no end of people who wouldn't pay on time. She rewrote her contract, had them all sign it, whereby it stated that if they were late paying then from the date due (1st of the month) then they would be charged at $10 per day; and she did charge them at this rate. It certainly did the trick!
 
a late payer who hasn't signed or returned their contract would be given a months notice to either sign contract or leave, they are the type who will do a moonlight flit and leave you out of pocket and really not worth your time!
 
Spring Feather said:
I really don't understand the point of giving invoices on the day they are due to be perfectly honest :confused3: Send them out a week before payment is due.
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That's just what my accountant husband said. But I have always done it because I want to include all the extras for the whole month, and only had a problem with one other client. I don't expect them to pay on the first (though a couple do) but give them 7 days to pay. However, I am going to change the billing date and just put in a cover note to explain why. It will mean that the extras will only be 3 weeks worth to start with and then will include partial months which may confuse some people (and probably me!) to start with.
 
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Ibblebibble said:
a late payer who hasn't signed or returned their contract would be given a months notice to either sign contract or leave, they are the type who will do a moonlight flit and leave you out of pocket and really not worth your time!
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Yes, it's yet another thing I need to chase up! :(
 
martlin said:
I write and hand out the bills around the 23rd of each month, they are payable by the 1st. Most clients pay me by bank transfer, one pays cash and always early. I've had bad payers before and was really relieved to see them go ;)
I'm generally sympathetic to peoples' hardship, but can't really afford to be anything more than that.
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That's the problem. You want to be sympathetic (and I am) but I can't really afford to give financial aid. I have a huge mortgage and horse feed bills to pay!

I have one client that I have finally reined in, but as she pays by bank transfer I didn't used to be diligent about the actual amount that went in. When finally I did start checking, I found she was slightly under paying each month. Just knocking off £4 here, £50 there. Since I cottoned on, I just add it as (underpayment) to the next bill. Last month she underpaid by an annoying £.60! Too petty to carry forward, but it's funny she has never once accidentally overpaid!
 
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Id change everyone's bill to SO. ;) You need to factor in the cost of your time in chasing late payers.
I like the idea of not giving money off for absences but allowing the value to be taken off the liveries extras bill.
 
To me your contract reads that you will hand out the bills on the 1st and you then have 7 days to pay, ie bill is not actually due until the 7th... If you want payment by the first of the month I do think you will have to invoice earlier.
 
When we did liveries, they payed by direct debit/standing order each month, no exceptions, extras such as worming and shoeing were billed when they happened if a client wanted a supplement fed they paid and brought it. . You can't run a business properly if people don't pay. I'm on livery myself now and pay by standing order each month. (any extras I pay for as its DIY)
 
You should not have to put up with this.

You need to get tougher.

Insist on a standing order on the first of every month then any extra can be paid by the 7 th as an example.
Give everyone one months notice or they will be ask to leave.

Good luck!
 
Ok a couple of things. Don't you use Quickbooks or similar to do your accounts? Every single underpayment, even if it is only 60p, will be carried forward to the next months invoice. Any clients who have not cleared the previously months bill should be sent out a statement to show their payments (and underpayments as the case may be). If you run on extras which are added to a bill if it's not the same each month, put on up till the invoice date (a week before due date of 1st) and then the following month they'll pay retrospectively for that amount. I have a fixed rate for my liveries. They pay the same every single month as I charge for all inclusive so there aren't any added extras. It's much easier that way, and my clients prefer this as their bill never changes. Are you not able to do this? I cannot understand why, when the due date is the 1st, that you are allowing them till the 7th to pay? Or is the 7th the actual date that their bills are due?
 
Years ago I tackled a livery on this who said that all the big companies regularly don't get paid until an invoice is several weeks overdue. I asked whether he wanted to pay the level of profit that they take. However, we did have a fairly productive chat, which revealed he actually got paid mid-month, so we simply changed the payment period for him, so he paid on the 14th of each month. Made no odds to me, as long as we were paid on time, each month. Worth a similar chat?

I've a difficult one at the moment with a former livery who is also a friend and in financial difficulties. Last time I chase payment, she ended up in floods of tears. I know I need to toughen up as it's now many months overdue, but....
 
sussexbythesea said:
Most yards I have been to you pay a month in advance for standard services and in arrears for extra. Pay within 10 days or 10% added to your next bill. One yard I had to give a months deposit plus a month in advance and a deposit for keys - that was nearly £1000 in total I had to find up front. I got my whole deposit back when I left.

I would insist that anyone who is a regular poor payer pays using standing order or direct debit or they can find somewhere else. On occasion I've been a bit late paying mainly through being disorganised but not habitually so.
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I've not heard of deposit before. Is this just me or is it unusual? It makes a lot of sense, just like when renting a home and would certainly go some way to stopping moonlight flits from non-payers. I suppose the opposite would apply though on the 'bad' yards where people may not be able to leave as they need the deposit to give to the next yard.
 
I must be unique then - having 4 horses I make sure I am always in front of my bills - its way to easy to rock up a bill if your not on top of it. When I was at one yard the ym was having a tough time when she split up with her hubby and as she had 2 young children I always used to pay my April or May livery early - for the Easter holidays, Jan's Livery would be paid around the 18th December - I had to pay it anyway but it made her life a bit easier.

You really do not need this though, you have had enough on your plate recently and I do think you are being taken advantage of.

If your being paid a fixed rate - I would issue a letter to each of them stating you want £x on the 1st of each month by SO - and any extras will be billed on the 1st and payment is required no later than 7 days - failure to comply with either instruction will result in a fee being added to their bill and as you have a waiting list would say on the 2nd failure then the offending person will be issued with their notice.

GW
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks everyone for all the good suggestions. Although the livery is a fixed amount, sometimes there are extras and sometimes there is money knocked off if one of the horses is away for a length of time so it varies. However, in view of the repeated late payments, I think I should insist on a standing order each month.

This client was issued with a contract but has never signed it and returned it. However, I think a contract is enforceable even without a signature. The contract says the livery is due on the 1st of each month and that it must be paid within 7 days. It really annoys me having to chase up money as it is a very unpleasant thing to have to do and not conducive to good feeling!
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Just out of interest, why on earth do you reduce the cost of livery if a horse goes away for any length of time? I have a DIY Yard with optional services, but the wayi see it if a horse goes away somewhere for schooling etc., that's lost income for me in the form of hay, straw and services which is the only way I can make the business pay? Just curious is all to know why you feel you have to do this??😕
 
Thanks everyone. GW I wish you were my livery!

I only have four (soon to be five) liveries. Two of them have 2 horses. One has been with me for 5 years and always pays bang on time by direct debit and the extras by direct transfer. The others pay by direct transfer. I just do the accounts on a spreadsheet so don't have any proper invoicing system, though I thin when things get less hectic in the summer, I will try to get on top of things and sort out my systems.
 
WinkingWillow said:
Just out of interest, why on earth do you reduce the cost of livery if a horse goes away for any length of time? I have a DIY Yard with optional services, but the wayi see it if a horse goes away somewhere for schooling etc., that's lost income for me in the form of hay, straw and services which is the only way I can make the business pay? Just curious is all to know why you feel you have to do this??��
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If your on a full livery contract - then the horse will not be eating the hay, using the straw or shavings - so a reduction is sometimes given - but then i have been at yards where the same price is charged regardless.
 
WinkingWillow said:
Just out of interest, why on earth do you reduce the cost of livery if a horse goes away for any length of time? I have a DIY Yard with optional services, but the wayi see it if a horse goes away somewhere for schooling etc., that's lost income for me in the form of hay, straw and services which is the only way I can make the business pay? Just curious is all to know why you feel you have to do this??��
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I sorted out a deal when this livery came. I charged a premium for the extra work these two horses are compared with all of the others (always booted up, individual turnout, very precise and complicated rugging arrangements and in at night in Summer) but met her budget by reducing when they were not her (off at competitions for days, sometimes weeks) because I was not doing the extra work I was charging a premium for.
 
Agree with the standing order idea. I pay my whole year's livery in advance and get a discount which is more than my money would earn in a deposit account, and less than the YO would pay on a loan or overdraft. It suits both sides very well, but I appreciate not everybody has that sort of money sitting around. On the extras I would say that if they owe money they don't get any more extras until they have paid up. Or do you earn more profit on the extras, so you want to encourage them to ask? I don't know how liveries price these things.
 
I would insist on standing order/direct debit! It's not that difficult (for the customer I don't see why it is a problem for anyone!! )
If they don't pay I think I understand you are offering assisted (not DIY) livery. Can you knock any services to bare minimum until payment. i.e no rug changes, skip out instead of muck out etc?
 
I dont livery as anywhere but sole rent a private yard and i have great landlords. I pay cash every 4 weeks on the dot and if i dont see the farm owner around i will knock the house door to make sure i pay on time. i love my wee private yard too much to risk being seen as a bad tenant. I sweep any odd blown from the stables shavings or hay from the courtyard as well every day, to keep the place clean and tidy, its my yard , but its there home.
 
I would send a general email/note to everyone saying to avoid confusion, in future all bills will be issued on the 25th of each month, and are to be paid by the first of the month, any bills outstanding on the 7th will receive an additional £15 to their bill for late payment. Anyone repeatedly late with payments will receive notice to leave the yard. Add a copy of this to the noticeboard then nobody can say they didn't receive it.

Then cross your fingers for the next month, and if not give notice?

Thankfully, even though they drove me mad in other ways, my liveries paid on time.
 
V. interesting thread I offer part livery (all care etc. except riding) for one person currently and they have been here for almost 18 months, in that time I have been paid on time maybe once or twice (and I say between the 1st and 5th of each month). I am often paid 2 months at a time (after having to feed the horse for the past month) or maybe the 17th or 18th it's getting really annoying as I don't ask a lot of money (120 quid a month) the owner is obv. well off.

It's the fact I have to pay everything upfront all the time and feed someone else's horse all month before getting any money at all.

I feel your pain.
 
niagaraduval said:
V. interesting thread I offer part livery (all care etc. except riding) for one person currently and they have been here for almost 18 months, in that time I have been paid on time maybe once or twice (and I say between the 1st and 5th of each month). I am often paid 2 months at a time (after having to feed the horse for the past month) or maybe the 17th or 18th it's getting really annoying as I don't ask a lot of money (120 quid a month) the owner is obv. well off.

It's the fact I have to pay everything upfront all the time and feed someone else's horse all month before getting any money at all.

I feel your pain.
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So if they expect there horse out at 8am and you decide to turn them out at dinner time would they complain or moan ? damn right they would ! relate this to the paying for their stable.
 
Wagtail said:
I only have four (soon to be five) liveries. Two of them have 2 horses. One has been with me for 5 years and always pays bang on time by direct debit and the extras by direct transfer. The others pay by direct transfer. I just do the accounts on a spreadsheet so don't have any proper invoicing system, though I thin when things get less hectic in the summer, I will try to get on top of things and sort out my systems.
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Ah okay, well yes I think if you do your accounts on Quickbooks or similar then I'm sure you'll find it much easier to keep on top of your business finances. We have ours all set up that invoices are automatically emailed out to all our clients every month. Then when the payments come in, they're just entered into each liveries account. It's a no-brainer!
 
And as for contracts, surely you would email these over before your livery arrives and then you would sit down with them on the day of arrival, run through the yard rules etc and sign the contract there and then?

My yard also takes 1 month deposit + 1 month in advance, makes it a spendy arrival but does at least assure the YO they will never get a livery that does a bunk without paying notice!
 
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