livery struggling to pay bills...

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I have a livery who is increasingly struggling to pay her bills. She has been on my yard since I opened and is one of my most reliable and friendly clients. To date she has always been able to pay her bills, although sometimes later than due, but has always spoken to me first if she has a problem.

I am becoming increasingly concerned for the welfare of her horses as to save money she bought her own hay last season. Not suprisingly at £1 a bale, a lot of it has been un-usable, and she is now running out so is rationing them to the extent that I think it is affecting their welfare. They get no hard feed either and are constantly hungry and feel awful that the other liveries are getting ad lib whilst hers are going hungry, but she has told me she cannot afford to buy anymore.

She is on assisted livery, so I turn out and bring in for her, and have recently waived these fees for her in lieu of helping me with my horses if I need it, but can't cut her basic bill down any more as would be unfair on the other liveries. Equally I cannot give her free forage. She is wanting them turned out 24-7 asap as see's grazing as 'free' but have had to explain to her that until the grass comes through more quickly she would still need to put hay in the field.

She also owes another client for bedding but cannot afford to pay it, which is causing tensions.

She is trying to sell her daughters pony as the child does not show much interest, but at 23 with a rearing issue, is not going to sell quickly, if at all.

As a yard owner I feel partly responsible for her horses welfare, and although have every sympathy with her situation as we are all feeling the pinch financially, am not a charity so can't offer my forage and services for free.

Any advice on how to tackle the situation?
 
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can she cut down on the assisted bit?? I think its great to hear of a YO taking responsibility for the horses welfare but i do also understand where you get to the point where things are taken for granted and before you know it your paying for the horses,

could you sorce some hay for her,?? i understand its not your job but if you could find her a round bale for say 30-40 quid then persuade her that it will work out cheaper than the small bales?

as for the small pony, personally at that age I think pts is the kindest but again I understand not all thik/feel this way, maybe suggest she advertises that it goes out on loan as a companion?
for the other one could she get a sharer?

the other side is to get tough and point i=out if she cant afford the basics then she shouldnt have the horses.
 
Sit her down and speak to her as a friend and not a livery owner. She obviously needs help and needs to sort something out fast otherwise one of the other liveries will take matters into their own hands and you'll be having a visit from ILPH or some such organisation. She needs to be told in no uncertain terms that the situation cannot continue and all the horses need to be rehomed not just her childs, if she cannot afford 2 horses she cannot afford 1 because god forbid it needs vets treatment how on earth is she expected to find that money if she cannot afford hay? Maybe she can start to work for you offically if you need help? That way she can keep her own horse and it gets the correct management in exchange for working? If not I'm afraid you need to be cruel to be kind, for the horses sake.
 
I think everyone at some point during having horses hits hard times... but if the horses welfare is an issue due to lack of feeding, then the question has to be asked "Should this person really have horses" maybe she should sell up for now and re-enter the horse world when she is finacially more stable and able to buy hay and feed... (and of course pay her livery)

I know you mentioned that her daughters pony is in its 20's and has a problem rearing which could indeed hinder a sale but could the suggestion of loaning her horses out until she get's over her difficult period be an answer? I dont think there are many options other than that and the last one is PTS which seems so cruel when its not the ponys fault...

Its not nice speak with someone about finances and even harder when they are having a difficult time but if the welfare of the horses are in question then I think something needs to be said as the YO and I think its great that you have stuck your neck out this far, most would turn a blind eye... She might turn around and tell you to mind your own business but your concern is clearly for the welfare of these horses...
 
How refreshing to hear of a yard owner that cares, I can only sugest that you sit down and talk to her, is it possible for her to work off any forage bills(short term) and perhaps WHW may help rehoming the older pony.
 
What about suggesting a sharer for one of the horses? should be able to get £20/£30 a week that way which would definetly help.
 
If they could go out 24/7 this would save on bedding so ideally she would be able to afford the hay ..... But then it's your land & you'd run the risk of over grazing it!

Difficult one really .... Good luck
 
Out 24/7 would be an ideal solution, they wouldn't need as much hay as stabled if there is some grass available?

As others have said, how about a sharer and or loan for one or both horses?

Can the horses manage without shoes? or only be shod in front for a while to help with costs.
 
I think you need to sit her down and have a chat, it is unacceptable that her horses are suffering, is their body condition okay? If not then something needs to be done sooner rather than later.

I also think that pts would probably be the kindest option for the old pony, as it will be impossible or at least very difficult to rehome at such an age with issues.

Does she just have her horse and a pony? I'd recommend to her that she cuts down to just one, removes the shoes and feeds good quality straw along with the meagre hay - still more expensive than £1 a bale hay, but the poor things have to eat! Beet pulp is a good way of adding fibre quite cheaply too.

It sounds as if she's be better off in a situation where her horse can live out without having to be stabled to save costs, although sadly it begs the question if she should have a horse at all if finances are so dire.

If she is unable to pay someone back for bedding then it looks as if things could turn nasty if she owes lots of people and is unable to pay, better to sort it sooner rather than later.:(
 
I can fully simpathise with your livery, I am struggling too. However, my horse isn't suffering and him and the dog eat before I do and if its beans on toast then thats what I have, I put them first.

She could send the pony to a retirement home, could be an option

Could she buy hay from you ? Could she pay you weekly instead of monthly?

Or look for somewhere cheaper or just grass livery
 
She need a second job.

Short term problems are manageable but longer term if she can't afford the horses she has to sell or increase her income.
 
When we had a shop we had a good client of many years standing. She was one of the customers with a long standing monthly account and always paid o time . To cut a long story short she got into difficulties and owed 4 months bills. Our solution was to let her pay 10%of what she owed,and we wrote off the rest of the debt,on the condition that she stayed as a customer and always paid on time. This she did,she had cats and dogs,loved them but when her pension reduced just couldnt afford them . she reduced numbers,the food and vet bills reduced,she remained our customer for many years following,always bought from us as paid her bills. the point is that we made profit over the long term so it was worth keeping her,and she remained loyal because we were good to her. I suggest you get the livery to sell at least 2 horses,make sure she buys hay from you in future and stays on assisted livery,you will make money from hger this way,and if you take a % of her debt when shes sold the horses and write off the rest you should retain her as a paying client for the future.
 
Sending a pony to a retirement home won't save her money. She would have to pay for it's keep and I'm sure it would cost more than her current arrangement. Most rescues are full of course, and can't just take every pony that someone needs to get rid of.
I think you should start by sitting down and talking to her. The hard fact is that she may need to sell one of the horses that has more value than the elderly pony.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
When we had a shop we had a good client of many years standing. She was one of the customers with a long standing monthly account and always paid o time . To cut a long story short she got into difficulties and owed 4 months bills. Our solution was to let her pay 10%of what she owed,and we wrote off the rest of the debt,on the condition that she stayed as a customer and always paid on time. This she did,she had cats and dogs,loved them but when her pension reduced just couldnt afford them . she reduced numbers,the food and vet bills reduced,she remained our customer for many years following,always bought from us as paid her bills. the point is that we made profit over the long term so it was worth keeping her,and she remained loyal because we were good to her. I suggest you get the livery to sell at least 2 horses,make sure she buys hay from you in future and stays on assisted livery,you will make money from hger this way,and if you take a % of her debt when shes sold the horses and write off the rest you should retain her as a paying client for the future.
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Good business answer that would also keep her friendship.
 
I can't add anything to the other helpful suggestions already given, but wanted to say (as have others already) that it's comforting to know that you're keeping an eye on your liveries horses without falling out with them and I hope you find a solution :)
 
I can sympathise with livery. The financial climate seems to be hitting so many people really hard. I would speak to her and maybe suggest the rearing 23-year-old should be pts. She is unlikely to find anyone to take him on and in the meantime he is running up her livery bills. Is there any chance you could offer her more work in return for livery? It won't be long before the grass in through and her horses can feed to their hearts content. If her situation doesn't improve she is going to have to think about giving up the horses altogether. If you have a horse it is your duty to pay for its needs.
 
What if she worked for you, you mention you offer assisted livery so what about if she did that so many days for you in return for a proportion of her bill/ some hay? Or what about doing some jobs for other liveries over and above what you offer? I know it's kind of undercutting you but if it meant that the horses were being fed and you were not put in an awkward situation then is that something that would be possible? tricky situation
 
Thanks for all of your replies.

I actually agree that the pony should be pts if she can't loan/sell as it is also no good as a companion as gets very stressed on its own. I have even suggested she sell it for meat money - as horrible as that sounds, she would then get something back and could put the money to her bills and support the remaining horse.

She keeps the old pony un shod and took the shoes off her mare for the winter, but unfortunately the mare suffered bruised soles with all the frozen ground so had to put them back on.

The horses look lean but not poor - if they got to that stage I would without question step in.....

We do have good grazing and by late spring will have plenty to support them without the need for anything else, but the transition period whilst the grass is growing and the hay running out is where the problem will lie.

I had a good chat with her the other night as we have become friends in her time here, and she has been arguing with her husband over the cost of the horses, and he is putting the blame on her for their financial situation! They are even considering emmigration as think the cost of living would be cheaper out of this country, but can't raise the money to pay the visa's etc so are in a real fix. They do both work full time and have 2 children to support too.

I am reluctant to pass on some of my 'work' to her as the services I provide are where my profits lie and have to feed my own horses too! However I will suggest a sharer, or even loan, for the mare as that could be of real help, but do wonder if selling them both and re-starting again when their finaces improve would be the only way forward. Straw as an option for forage is a good one so will suggest that too, although I do have haylage which she can buy off me, which would cost about the same as we use big bales.

Hopefully the situation will resolve itself, one way or the other......
 
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I can totally sympathise with the livery, its a horrible situation when money is so tight. I was in a similar position about a year ago, I had to move my two horses to a livery yard while work was done on my rented fields and about 2 weeks later I was made redundant so had to afford a £700 a month mortgage, bills, living costs etc etc etc AND an additional £200 a month livery. It was a real struggle and thankfully I had family and my OH step in to help me until I could move my horses back to their fields.

However, I never let things get so bad that my horses suffered, even in that situation. They always had food and if I couldnt afford the basics like that I would have considered putting them both out on loan (couldnt sell them, they are like family!!) or getting a sharer for them. Im sure there are things the owner could be doing to reduce their bills if they really sit down and look at what they can or cant do without...
 
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