Livery -v- daughter 🙁

Nari said:
Not exactly professional, is she lol
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You know I feel a bit sorry for the op... but I feel sorry for her and her daughter as in I would be gutted if this was my new horse having issues and it would stress the hell out of me. However, this post hits the nail on the head. As a yard owner you are the professional and “impartial” one.
You really do need to man up a little and sort out YOUR problem
 
Maintaining equilibrium on livery yards is a delicate balance at the best of times without having an emotional pull placed on you as well - so I can appreciate how stressful that must be. Sounds like the initial issue with your livery is actually a separate issue that has got caught up. Obviously you need to address things with your livery and do whatever is right. Regarding your daughters new horse - has any groundwork been done to help establish a bond? I was never too much of an NH fan and thought it all a but weird until our new pony appeared. Our pricey “schoolmaster” was really tricky to handle. The difference a few weeks of what I always considered to be odd natural horsemanship has made is amazing. It’s mafe the world of difference to the new pony and to me. He is a “schoolmaster” but he does not trust easily.....new people, new places, new horses.....but he is a good boy with the right approach. Your daughter may well have worked through these exercises but if not.....it’s worth a go. Good luck with sorting the issues with your livery and with your daughters horse.
 
Mmmm...... If I was the livery i.e. owner of the mare, TBH I'd be pretty miffed off if I was asked to leave purely because the YO owner's daughter's new mare had become fixated on mine and they'd fallen in love with each other, and I was the one being penalised by being asked to take mine elsewehre!! I'd not be too happy about this TBH.

As others have said, I think you need to perhaps think "outside the box" on this one; perhaps indeed different turnout/routine might well be what is needed.

When I brought my "new" mare home last autumn, my little youngster mare went all silly about her and went from being a good little girly who'd go out quite happily on her own, to being a right little madam who was squirting and "winking" everywhere, was possessive over the new mare, and wouldn't hack out with me on her own without threatening to bronc! But she did get over it OK - given time to re-adjust - and everything is now back to normal. Maybe the whole thing just needs time, for these two mares to get used to the situation??

Whatever, as a YO myself I can sympathise with your dilemma, but TBH can I respectfully direct your thoughts to "think business". Is this livery a good livery? i.e. does she pay up-front and on time? Does she upset others on the yard? Does her horse have any nasty habits like fence-breaking or whatever? Do you get on OK in a normal situation?? If your answer to these questions make good business sense, then perhaps you need to let that influence your decision......... yes she HAS let her pasture get a bit out of hand (but there is a very good reason for this, and when you pointed it out she HAS sorted it to your satisfaction without hassle), and I think were you to boot her off the yard simply because basically her horse and your daughter's horse have gone daft about each other, would be very unfair. You could get rid of her now, and next week say, replace the livery and have another horse in - mare or gelding, and daughter's mare does exactly the same thing! Where would that leave you? One thing that could easily happen, the horsey world being what it is, is that you as a YO could get bad-mouthed for your actions, and you have to ask yourself do you really want that?? It might be very bad news indeed for your yard/business.

It does sound like daughter's horse has had some kind of separation or pair-bonding anxiety, and/or her hormones are completely scat to b@ggery. If this were my mare, I'd be inclined to get the vet to take a look and take some bloods as there might well be something going on. Certainly this mare sounds very insecure and a different regime needs to be put in place for her.
 
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Being offensive to the OP is not going to encourage her to come back on here and possibly take on board advice which has the best interest of the daughter's horse.
The question is not 'livery v daughter', but 'sell daughter's horse v horse management change'. Perhaps selling the horse is the best thing if you cannot give your daughter's horse what it needs. It clearly is not coping with isolation. Any issues that you have with your livery are totally separate from the behavioural issues of your daughter's horse.
 
As a business owner you have to be conscious of the effect asking the livery to move could have on your business. If she is a popular livery with friends on the yard? If she is seen to be kicked off because of an issue not of her doing (in their eyes) and there is sympathy for her if she struggling with personal circumstances, then there will be a kick back effect on the atmosphere of the yard and also how people feel about your daughter. If your daughter involved in the running of the business on a day to day basis or does she just keep her horse there?
 
the new mare is acting like a female horse. mares are sensitive, she has been in a settled herd for some time, had owners she was used to and was happy in her environment, EVERYTHING has changed for her, so the first thing to do is to minimise her stress, dont keep her in solitary confinement, move fields so she is not close to liveries horse, daughter or whoever is handling her, spend more time with her grooming, lunging,long reining etc to give her reassurance that her new humans are friendly and she can begin to trust them. also lunge before riding and try and do lots of slow work . circles, leg yield etc to keep her attention and build a bond. the horse your daughter tried is still the same and her character will come out if you are patient and put the work in....
 
TBH I would send the new mare back and look for a gelding.
I have a mare like this who forms attachments to other horses - mares or geldings. If you remove the current attractive mare she will probably form a new attachment to another horse. My mare is better in a big herd where all horses come in at night and are separated in their stables or actually in individual turnout where she can't form attachments.
My mare is a nightmare and it has affected her ridden performance and my riding nerve.
I've had other mares who aren't like this and I have heard of geldings who can become attached but all things considered I would always opt for a gelding now.
Send her back if she's a recent purchase if at all possible - this will be a constant battle !
 
If livery isn't poo picking her field & is leaving horses out without permission & this doesn't improve to a level you find acceptable after you having a word then that could be fair grounds to give notice to her. As it is your yard you technically COULD ask her to leave for absolutely no reason at all if you wanted to; you just may not do your reputation much good and would then lose someone who overall has been a good client. I'd say that if you DID ask her to leave your duaghters new horse is likely to find someone else to fixate on so it may not solve your issue
 
You run the business you *could* just say to the livery

"Look I'm really sorry but your horse is making life hard for us because of XYZ, I realise none of this is your fault but unfortunately I have to try and help make things easier for my own daughter and much as I don't want to see you go I'm really sorry I am going to ask you politely to leave. Given the situation I'll give you twice the normal notice if you need it and won't penalise you financially if you choose to leave earlier, I'll offer good references to any new YO"

The livery won't like it but you'll have been civil and to the point.

Don't make excuses be honest

All the nonsense about poo picking is a red herring and you'll be doing you all an injustice by labouring that point as if there was months of poo in the field and you have strict rules on it you'll have said something before all of the thing with the mares blew up
 
Horses have social needs, they are herd animals. If your horse isn't having those needs met, of course she will be upset and it will be her primary focus over being ridden and working. Some cope just fine on their own, but if your has come straight out of a herd, she must be desperate for a friend to latch on to. The herd makes them feel safe and gives them an understanding of their social ranking, so it's no surprise that she's left feeling confused. Once she has a friend, she may settle and feel confident enough to be left out alone in the future. Two companions would be better , a couple of Shetlands would do the job! It's what I've done in the past if I had one left alone.
 
It sounds like everything was harmonious until the livery had a baby and the new mare arrived?

If the livery can't cope with being on DIY and having a young baby and as you said you got on well with her before her circumstances changed could you offer her an assisted livery service and charge her more?

Regarding your daughter mare, she may have had problems before you even got her but her old owners were able to manage them. Have you spoken to her old owners about this? If you are going to ask the livery to leave because her mare is winding your mare up then you going to have to make sure it other mare that is causing the problem, otherwise if it your mare that is sensitive to other horses and want your daughter to be able to keep her then it might limit what liveries you can take on your yard and effect your business.
 
Ticky said:
Thank you all for your replies. Daughter is still at her wits’ end. However, just heard that daughter’s long-outgrown 14.1hh Section D is coming back to our yard beginning of February following being “borrowed” by a friend who needed a companion for her horse, but friend has now found a “permanent” companion so we can have our pony back and she can be turned out with new mare. I know almost everyone is siding with the livery but can any of you imagine how my daughter feels? Or the pressure I’m getting from my daughter? The prospect of having to sell her new horse because of a livery’s horse, the horse she’d been searching for for almost a year - the whole situation is crap!
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Your daughter isn't having to sell her horse because of a liveries horse though.

It's your daughters mar that is the issue, if you are unable or unwilling to provide her with a stable herd environment (more than one other horse) then I would look at getting a work up from a vet and trying a medical route to resolve your daughters mare's behaviour and get professional help for the issues your daughter is struggling with on the ground and in the saddle.

If none of this is possible your daughter may be right that selling the mare to someone who can cope with and manage her behaviour may be the best option for all concerned.

Obviously you could ask the livery to move on (I feel this would be morally wrong) but it's more than likely that your daughters mare would just transfer the attachment to another horse.

Having been in a similar situation with a dangerous horse because they were so attached to another I do feel your pain.
 
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OP, have you made any decisions? Or how is the situation progressing?
Sorry people have got personal, no need for that, but I would be interested to find out if your daughter can get to grips with the mare, however it is achieved.
 
you are still blaming the liveries' horse though!! Your horse will form an attachment with whoever it feels like and will be pretty bad if with another 24/7....your horse is the problem.
 
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