Livery without a school

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MadWorld

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What do you think is a fair price to charge for DIY livery on a managed yard with good hacking but no school on site? Edge of Hemel Hempstead area.
 
If the hacking and turn out is geniunely good all year around, I don't think much of a reduction is needed - I've paid the same for livery with no school as I have with a school and would do so again.

For me, I don't need a school so as long as I can hack in the winter safely by head torch before work, it is is fine.

If the hacking is just so-so or there are restrictions on turn out, then you might struggle and need to offer a reduction.
 
Thanks for your replies.
The hacking is good (quiet roads and varied routes), the stabling is brick and solid, the grazing is approximately 12 acres for 8 horses, plenty of storage space for bedding, hay etc. There are also local venues that hold clinics. Would a reduction of £10/wk, compared to other yards in the area that do have a school, seem fair/reasonable?
 
Can you have a grass arena for the summer? That would help, otherwise you’re aiming at happy hackers, retired or youngstock - those wanting to compete would need the means and money to hire arenas locally and that would result in them finding an almost full price livery setup minus arena less attractive.
 
maya2008 said:
Can you have a grass arena for the summer? That would help, otherwise you’re aiming at happy hackers, retired or youngstock - those wanting to compete would need the means and money to hire arenas locally and that would result in them finding an almost full price livery setup minus arena less attractive.
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Unfortunately the grazing is on a bit of a slope which means it drains well but isn't suitable for a grass arena. Nice idea though :)
 
IrishMilo said:
I wouldn’t really offer or expect a reduction, it sounds like a great place to keep a horse.
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It's interesting seeing different opinions, which is exactly why I asked the question. It's not going to suit everyone but I'm hoping to get a reasonable idea of whether people would pay less than nearby facilities and if so, by how much? Thank you
 
MuddyMonster said:
If the hacking and turn out is geniunely good all year around, I don't think much of a reduction is needed - I've paid the same for livery with no school as I have with a school and would do so again.

For me, I don't need a school so as long as I can hack in the winter safely by head torch before work, it is is fine.

If the hacking is just so-so or there are restrictions on turn out, then you might struggle and need to offer a reduction.
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All year turnout (although horses would need to be in before dark in the winter as there is no lighting by the fields). The hacking is very good with a mix of quiet roads and bridleways. Thank you
 
I’d expect to pay a little less if no school as for someone who works full time I would have to transport elsewhere in the winter to be able to ride after work
 
I wouldn't expect to pay less since everything else seems to be nicely covered plus there are other, local venues which presumably could offer a school should you really want one... what more could you want/need?
 
MadWorld said:
All year turnout (although horses would need to be in before dark in the winter as there is no lighting by the fields). The hacking is very good with a mix of quiet roads and bridleways. Thank you
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How would people who work full time jobs be able to bring in before dark during winter? Do you offer a bring in service?

Bringing in before dark would also mean a long time standing in given that hacking in the dark is not practicable ie from 3 until turnout the next morning, 15 hours plus . A yard with an arena would mean that a horse, if brought in by 3, could be exercised by the owner in the evening.

Bringing in before dark on DIY would be impossible as a FT worker. So perhaps no reduction on cost but that it includes bringing in Monday to Friday?
 
NR88 said:
How would people who work full time jobs be able to bring in before dark during winter? Do you offer a bring in service?

Bringing in before dark would also mean a long time standing in given that hacking in the dark is not practicable ie from 3 until turnout the next morning, 15 hours plus . A yard with an arena would mean that a horse, if brought in by 3, could be exercised by the owner in the evening.

Bringing in before dark on DIY would be impossible as a FT worker. So perhaps no reduction on cost but that it includes bringing in Monday to Friday?
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You know, this very much depends where the yard is, and how situated re hacking opportunities. Plenty of people routinely exercise their horses in the dark, altho would be well advised to cover them with hi viz and safety lights, and certainly if hacking on roads with motor traffic.
Yards with manèges are not necessarily much use in this respect, unless the surface is well maintained, very well lit, and there are only a few people ever needing to use it at similar times.
Bringing in is another matter, and I agree that unless working owners are permitted to turn out and fetch horses with torches, the yard would be of limited diy appeal.
 
MadWorld said:
All year turnout (although horses would need to be in before dark in the winter as there is no lighting by the fields). The hacking is very good with a mix of quiet roads and bridleways. Thank you
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See if you cannot re consider whether owners could not turn out and fetch horses using torches when there is no daylight.
 
Without a school to use in the winter evenings I'm thinking the clientele would probably be people that can ride during the day, so probably not working FT. Without enough pasture to have summer and winter grazing, limiting turnout during the winter months does help to conserve the paddocks. There are quite a few yards round here that restrict turnout a lot more than 'daylight' hours in the winter - again I realise this doesn't suit all and that (ideally) we'd all want our horses out as long as possible, all year round (that's another topic for a different discussion). Also, from a safety/insurance point of view I'd be happier with horse movement not being in the dark.
I'm not saying this livery is going to suit everyone (it doesn't need to, there are other choices to be had, but each has other considerations such as poor school, lack of maintenance, absent owners etc) but I was wondering what people would expect the cost difference to between a yard with a school and a similar yard with a school.
 
You certainly put your case very well ☺️

From what many of the above responses have suggested, the cost difference may be minimal (if at all), but that is because whilst you may lack a school, you have other facilities of a good standard that somewhat make up for that. Including a very sensible owner/manager!
 
JenJ said:
You certainly put your case very well ☺️

From what many of the above responses have suggested, the cost difference may be minimal (if at all), but that is because whilst you may lack a school, you have other facilities of a good standard that somewhat make up for that. Including a very sensible owner/manager!
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Thank you 😊. There's been plenty of discussion recently around livery costs and I know (from already running a yard) that costs are rising, yards are closing and people are struggling. It's very sad but, truth be told, yards have to be a viable business to be sustainable.
Going by the responses I think I will end up making a considered reduction, compared to a similar nearby yard that has a school.
 
Honestly, I would start with looking at what kind of people you want as liveries.

Do you want lots of people on site, problems to deal with, extended hours and people trudging around with head torches? Fields either picked late or early by torch or just at the weekend. Storage needed for each horse for hay etc as well as feed. That’s the reality of DIY.

Would you prefer to offer part livery and include feed/hay? That would reduce storage needs and ensure you could have your fields nicely cared for, everyone in by dark etc.

Would you prefer to offer something like retirement livery with full care and not have so many extra people on site?

Once you have decided that, look for yards in the surrounding counties and pitch your price accordingly.
 
There's only 8 stables, so not too much 'people traffic'. I don't particularly want to offer anything apart from DIY as I don't have the time myself and having been let down numerous times by grooms (not labelling, just saying) I don't want to be 'left in the lurch' with a yard of 8 horses needing doing.
There is plenty of storage available so that's not an issue.
I think I'll need to pitch a price and see what the uptake is...
 
I dont think its quite what you intially made out. Theres no school which instantly rules you out for a lot of people, and now the turnout is limited to short hours, which will be impossible for most people again, and not being able to exercise a horse thats stood in all that time isnt a good option. I cant see anyone paying you the same price as another DIY yard with a school etc. Like it or not, people do want a school. And sadly, I've found most will prioritise facilities over turnout. But you don't really have either. If it was 24/7 turnout then yes, people will pay a premium which would equate to the same price as DIY maybe. People also seem to want individual turnout. Id be worried about horses coming and going and upsetting the herd if it was just everything out together, but would prefer it, but for lots it a hard no.

Finding clients will be hard as anyone working full time or even school hours wouldnt be able to do it. So that leaves a limited pool of customers who are ok with bringing in before dark, and dont need a school, and dont mind the turnout arrangement. Any yard with no school I have ever seen is less than a yard with a school by a big chunk, and you have some other limiting factors which will also affect price and desirability.
 
MadWorld said:
It's interesting seeing different opinions, which is exactly why I asked the question. It's not going to suit everyone but I'm hoping to get a reasonable idea of whether people would pay less than nearby facilities and if so, by how much? Thank you
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I’d test the water at the current going rate.
You will likely attract a clientele that is more hacking focused and values 365 day turnout.

You will loose some clients for no school, irrespective of price.

ETA I’ve just seen ‘limiting winter turnout’, that changes my response. That is an issue as most people who will accept a lack of school will need all day turnout around working hours during winter.
 
ihatework said:
I’d test the water at the current going rate.
You will likely attract a clientele that is more hacking focused and values 365 day turnout.

You will loose some clients for no school, irrespective of price.

ETA I’ve just seen ‘limiting winter turnout’, that changes my response. That is an issue as most people who will accept a lack of school will need all day turnout around working hours during winter.
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Understood...and these are the kind of questions/answers I need to consider. Winter turnout at a local yard is within the 7.30-3.30 times, summer turnout can be overnight if desired. And the turnout is 365 days. It seems to work well for them. Yes, they do have a school but it's not used by everyone, by a longshot.
 
I'm Dun said:
I dont think its quite what you intially made out. Theres no school which instantly rules you out for a lot of people, and now the turnout is limited to short hours, which will be impossible for most people again, and not being able to exercise a horse thats stood in all that time isnt a good option. I cant see anyone paying you the same price as another DIY yard with a school etc. Like it or not, people do want a school. And sadly, I've found most will prioritise facilities over turnout. But you don't really have either. If it was 24/7 turnout then yes, people will pay a premium which would equate to the same price as DIY maybe. People also seem to want individual turnout. Id be worried about horses coming and going and upsetting the herd if it was just everything out together, but would prefer it, but for lots it a hard no.

Finding clients will be hard as anyone working full time or even school hours wouldnt be able to do it. So that leaves a limited pool of customers who are ok with bringing in before dark, and dont need a school, and dont mind the turnout arrangement. Any yard with no school I have ever seen is less than a yard with a school by a big chunk, and you have some other limiting factors which will also affect price and desirability.
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Not wanting to appear off, but I'm not sure how it's 'not what I initially made out', if you read my initial post?
There would be 365 day turnout, but yes the hours would have to change according to the seasons. Agreed, a limited pool of clients, but my original question was asking what price difference would be expected.
 
And thats what I answered. Youve got a limited pool of clients and it will need to be cheaper by a fairly large percentage. At least 25% cheaper than a basic diy livery with basic but usable facilites.
 
That's a good figure to work with, thanks. If, for example, a nearby yard charges £180 pcm, would a charge of £135 for the same type of set-up re stabling/storage/fields etc (BUT without a school) seem reasonable?
 
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