Livery won’t leave

[ihatework]

I wouldn’t accept any money from the livery at the end of notice period.

I’d keep the horse safe in a tiny electric paddock with access to water.

Id remove all livery’s stuff from the property and leave it on driveway/pavement unprotected.

Id lock stables/tackroom to prevent access.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Personally I wouldn't even entertain putting up the price, as she is going to see that as your acceptance of the situation. Might be worth asking your local police what happens to straying/abandoned animals in a situation like this, and how you can protect yourself from the accusation of theft if you move the horse. I totally agree with other posters that after X date, the horse and equipment should be moved.

 

[Birker2020]

Thank you both.
Tying to the gate is very tempting!! Also tempted to take to liveries work (at a yard) and drop off - don’t know why she cant go there anyway

Probably because they have experienced the reasons why you are keen to part with her

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’m just wonder if you leave all her stuff somewhere as is being suggested and it gets stolen or damaged might you be liable? Same with tying a horse to a gate or similar?
I’d go down the dropping it off at her work. You know it’s safe and totally out of your hands that way.

 

[ponynutz]

I would ping any payment straight back and give her notice of a date, explaining why you have sent her money back to her. Say that if she hasn't left by that date horse and belongings will be left at her work. Would also mention that she will be fly grazing especially as she has not paid for the upcoming month and you will take legal action.

Threat alone may be enough to shift her. If it doesn't, drop at the yard as you said you would do (it is safer than leaving in the car park imo).

 

[Abacus]

I believe that if you gave her warning that her things would be left outside at X time on X day (once her notice period has expired so she is no longer paying for livery and associated storage of stuff), it would be her responsibility to remove them. I wouldn't however leave a horse outside or do anything with it that might be unsafe. Nor would I leave stuff at her place of employment - it's not their responsibility.

 

[blitznbobs]

Give the written notice to be vacated by 1/3/23. State in your notice that the horse and all belongings will be removed from the premises by you on this date if this is not upheld! You take no responsibility for the horse or belongings after this date.

This isnt legal unfortunately

 

[Red-1]

I am surprised at how many people would leave the horse tied outside. I would not do that!

I would padlock the horse in after that date, as she no longer has access to the yard. I would pre-warn her that this was going to happen at that date. I would then serve an abandonment notice.

 

[Barton Bounty]

This isnt legal unfortunately

Happens up here

 

[katerider]

Thanks everyone.
I obviously don’t want to leave horse at her work/ tied up somewhere, for all the reasons stated above. Hopefully the legal team will point me in the right direction

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

May I ask WHY you are wanting her out?? Sorry not trying to pose a stupid question - but I am guessing more from what you haven't said than from what you have, that the reason may be that she is perhaps taking the Yellow Liquid big-time and/or there is bad air between you??

Did she sign a contract when she moved onto your yard? (Please tell me the answer is YES........... ). Although I suspect not.

If so, what is the notice period on the contract??

Is she still paying you for livery at the moment?? Or is she in default.

If you are a BHS Gold Member by all means talk to them, but I've not heard all that positive feedback from people who've consulted them about things and apparently all they'll do is give you a list of Legals for you to go to. Which actually might be the best way forward as it may be an official letter from a Solicitor might just sharpen their mind a little and they'll move on.

Think you'll need to do this in the first instance; whilst you may have plenty of advice to chuck her things out and then "tie the horse to the gate", as a YO myself I don't think I could actually make myself do it at the end of the day. It isn't the horse's fault and I just don't think I could.......... those big melting eyes would haunt me I think. Yes I know I'm as soft as a rabbit's arse.

I would try the Legal route first.

 

[ester]

Post #24 = livery being paid

 

[TreeDog]

Another vote for abandonment notice, served as soon as the notice period ends. I know of someone who had a mare and foal abandoned on their land, slightly different circumstance but it was easy to do and no one came to collect so they became legal owners of the horses. I think they kept them for a while and then sold them on.

I'd make it clear to your livery that if the horse is not removed by the end of the notice period you will be serving them with an abandonment notice, and after 96 hours (4 days) you will be legal owner of the horse. At which point you can sell, rehome, give to a charity or pts.

The link that was provided about serving an abandonment notice gives you all the information you need. You can even get equine bailiffs to arrange it all for you.

 

[katerider]

Asked her to leave due to needing the stable now for one of mine.
Contract all signed and states a months notice either way for termination of agreement. Livery always paid. It’s my yard and my situation has changed. I’ve given plenty of notice to try and make things easier but she just says she’s not going!! Really didn’t expect it to come to this. No issues between us until this point - have tried to turn a blind eye to the lack of care. Not easy as you say - it’s not the horses fault!!

 

[Jenko109]

Dropping at her work makes the most sense to me. Perfectly safe place to take the horse and all belongings

 

[Ample Prosecco]

It’s crystal clear then. Time for a letter! If BHS is not that helpful you can follow the advice in the links shared by Conniegirl.

The law is clear. After 28th Feb she no longer has the right to be on your land. Turn her horse out, move yours into the stable, prevent her accessing all the facilities. Keep the livery money in a separate account and return it when she leaves, minus the extra costs of livery/hay during the period the horse has been illegally on your land.

Serve the notices as set out in those links.

Don’t tie it up, etc. If horse is injured you could be liable. You are also responsible for caring for the horse while on your land. But you can claim, so charge £25 a day (or whatever) costs every day after 28th Feb. This is not a livery fee asked for up front, but costs incurred due to her fly grazing your land. So you don’t to tell her about it now. Just deduct a portion of the fee if she pays up in March.

Good luck!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Just to add, the legislation covers your exact situation:


Fly-grazing

Fly-grazing is the deliberate grazing of horses on land without the land owner’s permission.

In some cases, the horse may have originally been there legitimately, but the agreement between the landowner/occupier and the horse’s owner has terminated and the horse has not been moved.

 

[ponynutz]

I would suggest you DO tie up if youre leaving horse there otherwise it is more dangerous. Instead take precautions incase of accident, use a quick release leadrope and take pictures of the quick release knot (a proper pony club one even if you don’t normally) tied to baling twine. That way you have something to fire back if something happened to horse and you were blamed.

 

[ester]

tie up if leave horse where? I don't think AE was suggesting letting it loose anywhere but a securely fenced field!?

 

[Barton Bounty]

OP this is your home and your entitled not to have trespassers in your home so give the date and if she crosses the threshold, call the police

 

[ycbm]

OP this is your home and your entitled not to have trespassers in your home so give the date and if she crosses the threshold, call the police

Tell her that's what you'll do, by all means. But this is a civil dispute, it's not a matter for the police they have too much else to do, there are burglaries that aren't being investigated. There's a simple way to resolve this and that's an abandonment notice. I suspect she'll go as soon as that’s pointed out to her.
.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Tell her that's what you'll do, by all means. But this is a civil dispute, it's not a matter for the police they have too much else to do, there are burglaries that aren't being investigated. There's a simple way to resolve this and that's an abandonment notice. I suspect she'll go as soon as that’s pointed out to her.
.

Guess things really are a lot different down there, did not realise quite so much

 

[Clodagh]

We have no police in England, and the ones we have no longer turn up unless someone is dead.
Scotland must be better manned!

 

[Barton Bounty]

We have no police in England, and the ones we have no longer turn up unless someone is dead.
Scotland must be better manned!

Thats rubbish

 

[honetpot]

I have been through this, and you have to go in strong. We had a contract, and then they didn't pay, when they eventually left if had cost me over £600, and that was without the unpaid bills.
It was before the changes in the law and now its a lot easier, and the best advice, and I was a BHS member and spoke to a solicitor,, was the bailiffs, because they do this every day and have practical knowledge.
If you haven't done it already serve them notice, and that you are ending their tenancy. I sent in every way I could, text, email and by registered letter, pinned a copy to the gate/ stable door, that the agreement has ended and leave by X date. I would also give them a copy of the Abandonment law, and your rights, and you will use it.
I would contact someone like this,https://www.thehorsebailiffs.co.uk/

In my case as soon as they realised that I would use bailiffs and I was using the law as it stood then, which was not as clear, they left. I would suggest anyone who has liveries of any sort, that they will use the law to take control of the animals if they do not leave after the contract ends, and have the animals disposed of. When its part of your home, and the person abusing you turns up 'to care' for stock or not, its like a continuing personal attack. It's not just about money, they just see it as saving money think that there is no cost to you, but what ever they are using is theft.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I think its shocking people get treated like they do.
I had a tenant in my flat. I gave them notice. The day after the notice they were still there. I opened the door, made them leave and changed the locks. Put all their belongings on the landing and gutted the property and sold it, id never have the hassle of another tenant again

 

[reynold]

Having served an abandonment notice then from 1st March record all expenses on caring for the horse including your time per hour at national minimum wage and cost per day of storing her belongings at the sort of price charged by self-storage businesses. Don't forget to include a standing charge for water/electric used.

Don't as above tie horse to gate or chuck out her things as it could backfire on you if stuff was stolen or horse strayed and killed someone or was itself killed.

When it's finally gone serve her with the full bill for care and if the livery doesn't pay then it can be taken thru the small claims court at minimal cost.

 

[luckyoldme]

I've only had experience of this once. The land owner asked for help when the situation became untenable.
He just told them a final no negotiation date and was prepared to stick to it.
He told her if they weren't out by that date they would be left. In her garden.
Luckily it didn't come to that but he was prepared to carry it out.
I get that people say it's not legal but that's the last thing that would worry me. As long as the horse is left somewhere safe and take a quick video to prove it's left safe and secure .

We have no police in England, and the ones we have no longer turn up unless someone is dead.
Scotland must be better manned!

Nope I don't think so! All our local police stations are gone. I had my workshop broke into and it was three days before they came . The only thing I've had any luck with is getting a crime number for insurance and a speeding ticket.

 

[MagicMelon]

Send her a letter stating the date she needs to be gone by and say all locks will be changed at this point (lock all gates / tack room etc.).

 

[honetpot]

I am now hard core, having been through this, and there were multiple animals, I would call the knacker man after I had been through the legal process and they were mine.
'We recommend that to lessen your liability they are moved ASAP, but we can serve a notice first and wait to see if they are moved by their owners if it is what you require.
If they are not moved or not claimed after being moved, then after 96 hours (not including Saturdays and Sundays) their ownership reverts to the landowner.'

It's not just money, it's the abuse and the threats. If you go through the correct legal process they are yours to dispose of as you wish. I live in an area in a large traveller community, and never have any problems, because they know the law, and actually they value their stock, they are not dumped at the side of the road or in someone else's field. It's the ones that have all the talk, but want someone else to pay, that are the problem.