Livery Yard Closing Fields and other issues

[buzyizzy]

We moved our two horses to a yard eight weeks ago on the assurance that a) there would be daily turnout, whatever the weather, b) the tack room would be finished very soon and we'd have somewhere secure and dry for all our stuff and c) the arena would be finished to use this winter.
The other liveries don't work or at least not very much as they manage to find time to exercise their horses daily. They also have the use of an old container for there stuff, but we were told there was no more room in there, but the main tack room would be finished very soon.
Within two weeks of arrival, she closed the fields, the school hasn't had any work done on it for weeks and our stuff is still in a damp corner of an old stable on top of that, the lighting is so poor we can't muck out in the evening, even with a head torch it's difficult. We have to buy hay and straw from them, and they are making a fortune from us as we are paying for a field that we can't use as well as twice the hay and straw.
Last week she said we could turn out in a farm field which was much too lush for ours, so I asked her to turn ours out very late. The first day I asked she said she wouldn't be around and the next day when I asked, she obvs turned them out early cos the stables were so clean and my horse had spasmodic colic as a result so I have a huge bill. YO knew ours couldn't graze for long in that grass as I had been strip grazing our field for the two weeks we were allowed out.
Needless to say, we are leaving very shortly, but I'm furious with her and I believe I have a case to sue her. What does anyone else think?

 

[be positive]

I agree that you have been lied to in order to get you onto the yard and paying livery, closing fields when you were told this would not happen is unfair, the other issues such as finishing jobs I think are different as that may be dependent on contractors or money issues, your horse may have got colic due to being turned out too long but that is not really easy to prove if it was due to the YO turning out too long or not, if you want to sue for the vets bill I think you will find it hard to win and potentially will lose a lot of money fighting it, far more than a bill for colic, the other issues are not worth much financially so there is little point in even trying to gain compensation for a few extra bales of hay/ straw.

I would move on and put it behind you, life is too short to be dwelling on this.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

You have a right to be angry as the YO has not been truthful to you & you've been treated shabbily but don't bother trying to sue. A solicitor said to me a long time ago never sue on a point of principal & never sue if the costs of the action will he out weigh any possible financial gain. Just mark it up to experience, move yards. Move to a yard that has suitable amenities in place, not to one that has nothing or poor ones & promises are given as to what will be happening down the line. Wait till those amenities are in place & then consider the yard.

 

[Greylegs]

I think you're right to be annoyed by the failure to fulfil promises with regards to facilities and especially about the turn out issue. I also agree that moving again is the right thing to do as long as you end up in a suitable place this time! As for suing! ... not sure i'd bother TBH. You may have a case, but the hassle and cost of suing would probably make it not worth it. What would you be suing for? Reimbursement of the vets bill, some sort of compensation for the none appearance of the storage etc? I think i'd just move and move on. If your horse is OK now and the new place is better, then write it off to experience.

 

[Honey08]

In partial defence, the weather has been particularly horrendous for the last six weeks with endless rain and a lot of the country seriously flooded. Before that it had been a lovely autumn. Our fields went from beautiful to flooded bogs. I can't see how any work could be done in a school without churning it if machinery was required. And she did eventually offer alternative turnout. But she could have given a discount or something regarding the tack room. i think it's silly of a YO to say guaranteed turnout in this climate.

 

[Snuffles]

I learnt the lesson very early on that you dont move to a yard on the promise that a school/stables/fencing will be done by so and so. It almost never happens. If its not there already I dont go !

 

[conniegirl]

i think it's silly of a YO to say guaranteed turnout in this climate.

Not if they manage their fields and stock levels properly!
We have had turn out every day so far this year in their normal fields, despite being on heavy clay and an area prone to flooding

If the fields get very bad then we can turn out in either a sacrifice paddock or in one of the schools but we only had one day of that last year

 

[YorksG]

Not if they manage their fields and stock levels properly!
We have had turn out every day so far this year in their normal fields, despite being on heavy clay and an area prone to flooding

If the fields get very bad then we can turn out in either a sacrifice paddock or in one of the schools but we only had one day of that last year

Try telling that to people in parts of Cumbria!

 

[Starzaan]

I think you're absolutely right to be cross, and to be moving. However, can I just say that re school being completed, things happen. When I had my school built it took almost six weeks longer than anticipated due to us uncovering an underground spring and this causing all sorts of chaos.

In all other cases though, she sounds like a total moron. So bin her and get out of there!

 

[AdorableAlice]

Any yard owner/land owner who make promises about turnout in mid winter is foolish. Land can change from perfectly usable to waterlogged in a matter of hours, as Cumbria has just experienced. Common sense has to prevail and horse owners have to realise this.

As far as the school and facilities are concerned you need to ask when they will be available given that you are paying for them as part of your contract. If it is not any time soon you need to review the contract or move to another yard.

 

[Jnhuk]

Yeah, I am sorry and can understand that you are angry (even if you have a written agreement re daily turnout whatever the weather, appropriate tack room and date of when new arena would be available) but are you sure taking the YO to court will improve your finances and stress levels immensely to gain any satisfaction?!

Put it down to a hard and expensive lesson learnt and you are moving on. I personally would never move to a yard where you have to purchase hay only from them and have to pay for it on top of your livery fee.

Common sense should also have prevailed that at this time of year that getting an arena put in would most likely be delayed for awhile as very much dependent on weather.

 

[Allie374]

Threaten said Yard Owner with Trading Standards.

I am writing a book on my experiences on yards in county durham, north yorks...... stuff to make your toenails curl... like glss shards on the dreadful san school, topped with old carpet, tacks n glass to save money.....with Shy Boy, humerous, but deadly..... YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER !

 

[SO1]

I think sometimes there are issues in managing people's expectations. Your idea of very soon and finished to use this winter may be different from the YO, winter has still not ended so the school may still be ready for winter. The tack room may be ready under their definition of very soon. I think unless you have clarification of things being ready by a certain date then you are basing your exceptions on your experiences and value judgement rather than facts.

With a regard to the turnout do you know from the other liveries if closing the fields is a regular thing or was this the first time it has happened. The YO may never have closed the fields before but had to this year due to unforeseen circumstances. With regard to the alternative grazing did you specify what time they should be turned out and for how long as just saying very late could mean anything from 30 minutes later to many hours later depending on what your YO definition was of very late. Did you for example say I only want the horses to go out for 3 hours please turn them out at 2pm.

I don't think there is any point attempting to sue the YO as it is unlikely you will win if there were no definitions of when things would be ready or if you have no way of proving exactly what time your horses went out. I understand that you would be cross if you think the YO actions has caused your horses to suffer but unfortunately misunderstandings do happen. Thankfully your horse sounds as if it is ok and you have found a better yard so in your case I would just feel grateful for that and move on and enjoy the better yard.

 

[chocolategirl]

Threaten said Yard Owner with Trading Standards.

I am writing a book on my experiences on yards in county durham, north yorks...... stuff to make your toenails curl... like glss shards on the dreadful san school, topped with old carpet, tacks n glass to save money.....with Shy Boy, humerous, but deadly..... YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER !

As livery yards aren't regulated/licensed, would they be subject to trading standards?
I think it would be a great thing if yards had to be licensed personally, then they could charge a decent and fair price, and in turn hopefully not have to cut corners like many do, leading to dissatisfaction. The only concern of course then is that many , many people would no longer be able to afford to keep horses. OP as others have pointed out, it's probably not worth perusing the YO, just call it down to experience and learn from it. Good luck at your new yard.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think the issue with compulsory licensing of livery yards is that those who would write the licensing requirements know very well that any meaningful regulations that where enforced would result in many many homeless horses and a raise in livery costs that the market would struggle to take .

 

[Pedantic]

Not fit for purpose, sue for vet bill and stress, some of these people are total arse's, they want the money but don't want to give the service. NOA

 

[buzyizzy]

She told me the tack room would be completed in a couple of weeks and she said she would provide us with saddle racks and some kind of storage for our stuff. I reminded her about three weeks in and she said, oh yes, and promptly did nothing.
Alternative turnout was only for five days and she was very adamant that she was having to pay rent from the farm for it and she hadn't budgeted for it. Apparently the only reason we had it for a few days was because the field was being ploughed up in the spring anyway. I don't understand why we couldn't have had it for the whole winter, but hey ho, that's what we were told.

 

[buzyizzy]

We have been on yards that have kept their fields open all year even two years ago when the field was being washed down the driveway the YO managed to keep it open, although we went down to half a day for a short while.

 

[buzyizzy]

The school is almost finished. They worked really hard and quickly at first, the hardcore is down, the topping is at the yard, but nothing has happened for a month. She promised turnout would be available in the school, and it would at least have given us somewhere to do something with the horses after work.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Not if they manage their fields and stock levels properly!
We have had turn out every day so far this year in their normal fields, despite being on heavy clay and an area prone to flooding

If the fields get very bad then we can turn out in either a sacrifice paddock or in one of the schools but we only had one day of that last year

Quite and give daily turn out everyday except Christmas day and New year day sometimes otherwise our fields are never closed

 

[minesadouble]

Not fit for purpose, sue for vet bill and stress, some of these people are total arse's, they want the money but don't want to give the service. NOA

If you want even more stress and expense go ahead - my advice as a lawyer would be put it down to experience and find another yard.
Asking current liveries whether they actually do have all year turnout before moving would be an idea. We provide year round turnout through the winter turnout field gets very messy by the end.
I can understand why some YOs would be reluctant. We are lucky that we have enough land to give that field a long recovery time come Spring and it is amazing how well it does recover in the end.

 

[Damnation]

Try telling that to people in parts of Cumbria!

Couldn't agree more

When my horse had full turnout one winter in North Cumbria, the mud was hock deep. I got stuck up to my knee one night and had to leave a boot behind!
(I live north of Carlisle, right on the Scottish Border)
This was in a 15 acre field with 6 horses. Hardly over grazed, and they spent the night in the big shed with their hay! (They stilll had access to the field).

In Cumbria, winter turnout is almost impossible. Buffy is currently out in a partially concreted farm track just to keep her sanity as she doesn't cope well with being in all the time, and she seems happy with this and chilled out.

It is however unreasonible to promise turnout and then not get it. Just leave the yard and draw a line under it. Horsey people talk and often only listen to one side of a story!

 

[gallopingby]

The weather this winter has been exceptional - I don't know where you are but it has rained around Cumbria and the Borders most days for weeks now - and when I say rained I mean the rain has been constant 23 hours a day and sometimes for 48 hours - unless you have a turnout area which has a surface of whatever and has had drains put in for the purpose you have absolutely no chance of anything but a bog! Fields which looked really good 6 weeks ago can no longer take anymore rain they are like paddy fields! If you're not happy then moving yards is the answer and maybe your new yard will have an organised turnout field but its unreasonable to complain - the yard owner can't control the weather and I would suggest s/he tried to help by renting additional grazing - maybe before it rained some more! Some of my fields aren't looking good but there is no chance I can do anything about the drainage until the spring. Taking any machinery onto the land at the moment would be totally impossible.

 

[xgemmax]

Sounds like my old yard! I will now never move anywhere on a promise that something will done, I want to see it with my own eyes first having been promised a school within a month of being there and there still being no school, plus hardly any turnout and no lights, 9 months later when we left

 

[wingedhorse]

The weather this winter has been exceptional - I don't know where you are but it has rained around Cumbria and the Borders most days for weeks now - and when I say rained I mean the rain has been constant 23 hours a day and sometimes for 48 hours - unless you have a turnout area which has a surface of whatever and has had drains put in for the purpose you have absolutely no chance of anything but a bog! Fields which looked really good 6 weeks ago can no longer take anymore rain they are like paddy fields! If you're not happy then moving yards is the answer and maybe your new yard will have an organised turnout field but its unreasonable to complain - the yard owner can't control the weather and I would suggest s/he tried to help by renting additional grazing - maybe before it rained some more! Some of my fields aren't looking good but there is no chance I can do anything about the drainage until the spring. Taking any machinery onto the land at the moment would be totally impossible.

There is a huge difference between exceptional weather, leading to exceptional circumstances, and taking liveries on a promise of turnout, knowing that you plan to close the fields, because they get too wet every winter.

It hasn’t been exceptionally wet everywhere in England. We are wet, but not flooded, despite being low lying clay. And turning out all day, everyday.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would just look for another yard and put it down to experience I have learnt over the years to not move to yards that are half finished with promises of it all being done, and some yo will tell new liveries whatever they want to hear just to fill boxes unfortunately, you could go and speak to them and say your leaving if whatever you were promised is not full filled as you can't keep your horses under the current circumstances.

 

[flaxen]

If you want even more stress and expense go ahead - my advice as a lawyer would be put it down to experience and find another yard.
Asking current liveries whether they actually do have all year turnout before moving would be an idea. We provide year round turnout through the winter turnout field gets very messy by the end.
I can understand why some YOs would be reluctant. We are lucky that we have enough land to give that field a long recovery time come Spring and it is amazing how well it does recover in the end.

Where would someone stand if they specifically asked about any turnout restrictions, eg days/ times etc and were told none. The yo then reduced turnout down to 3 days a week only after a mth and then 6 weeks later banned turnout completely. No turnout now for 7 weeks! Horses going ballistic. The yo has also been caught turning her horses out when they think no one is about. With no livery contract signed and not on private facebook page and payment is cash only and no receipt given where do the liveries stand if theyve had enough and want to leave.

 

[popsdosh]

Where would someone stand if they specifically asked about any turnout restrictions, eg days/ times etc and were told none. The yo then reduced turnout down to 3 days a week only after a mth and then 6 weeks later banned turnout completely. No turnout now for 7 weeks! Horses going ballistic. The yo has also been caught turning her horses out when they think no one is about. With no livery contract signed and not on private facebook page and payment is cash only and no receipt given where do the liveries stand if theyve had enough and want to leave.

Leave! its very simple really whats stopping you?

 

[amandaco2]

Id be fuming too! hope u get somewhere with a decent honest yo

 

[zigzag]

Where would someone stand if they specifically asked about any turnout restrictions, eg days/ times etc and were told none. The yo then reduced turnout down to 3 days a week only after a mth and then 6 weeks later banned turnout completely. No turnout now for 7 weeks! Horses going ballistic. The yo has also been caught turning her horses out when they think no one is about. With no livery contract signed and not on private facebook page and payment is cash only and no receipt given where do the liveries stand if theyve had enough and want to leave.

Just go?