Livery Yard Contract - Clause that You must work with Horse 3 x a week

Chavhorse

Chavhorse

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Following on from the Post about the Worst Horse owner I thought I would open this one for debate.

My Part DIY Livery Contract (I muck out and Hay up every evening) States that "an Owner or their representative must move (for this interpret as work with /engage with) their horse a minimum of 3 times per week.

The reason this has been put in is to stop people thinking "oh horse goes out every day they are ok I can just muck out and leave" Even the lady that owns the 32 year old Shetland is expected to take her out of the paddock/stable for a walk or hand grazing.

YO's said they got to a stage where they were feeling sorry for horses that were effectively ignored and were doing extra things themselves and the owners were never taking the responsibility. Obviously if the horse is lame/Ill etc no one is going to re-enforce the rule and if you are away on holiday or sick and can not find your own cover then the YO's are more than happy to work your horse for you but you will be charged and they will not do it indefinitely.

People have been asked to leave who have not adhered to this rule as the YO's are adamant that a happy horse is one who has a job or in the case of one who is retired it moves and sees a change of scenery.

So what are your thoughts I find it actually makes for a very nice yard atmosphere as each night all the owners are there concentrating working their horses (then everyone tends to head off to the bar to compare notes.) So far no bitching as everyone is too busy
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I think that's quite nice really. A shame it is thought to be necessary, and I guess it would depend on the horse... eg if I had a retired horse that had daily turnout I wouldn't necessarily walk them out 3 times a week, however I would be giving them care and attention every day regardless.
 
What are the facilities?
If it's an outdoor school are they able to make sure it is not flooded/frozen so that you can use it a minmum 3 times a week?? (good if they maintain it well)

If you ride 3 times a week anyway then it shouldn't effect you
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ETA: if they brought that rule into force where I am only me and my RI would be left!
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I think its bollox. It shouldn't be a rule. Horses are plenty happy enough stood in a field amusing themselves as long as they are healthy, fed and watered. Your YO has a cheek making that a rule. It would be fair enough to say to new liveries that, say for example, "there's not much winter turnout so the set-up doesn't generally suit retired horses as the majority of their exercise in winter has to be work". I don't think its on that people are forced to "play with" horses that would be quite happy left alone with their haynet.
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I would class our potter to the field as walking in-hand as it's so far away!!!

Some days all I have time to do is put him out, muck out and then come back to put him in. I think I would object to being told how many times a week I had to do something with my horse (that I am paying good money to keep on a farm!).

I do generally have a toddler with me though and if it's raining or very cold she stays in the car, hence the rushing about.
 
Wow - real 'big brother' yard!! Glad it works for you but certainly wouldn't be for me. I currently have 1 broodmare and a retired 14.2 that I simply don't do a thing with at the moment. The broodmare couldn't care less and the 14.2 (daughter's 20yr old ex-bsja pony) has NEVER been happier than she is now contendedly mooching round the field. She was a real twisty snacky pony to handle and was no fun to ride except when she was jumping - not a people pony at all. She's now a much happier soul.

Edited to add I do have another 5 who do have jobs - I don't keep them all as ornaments!!

Glad it suits you though.
 
I can understand a contract where by you have to interact with your horse x times a weeks, but personally I wouldn't like to be forced to exercise my horse x times a week.

Fella is worked more times a week than that, but I wouldn't like to have to do it, under yard rules. For example, we had about 2 weeks around xmas and new year time between the first and second lots of snows. Forecasts were saying there was going to be more heavy snow, so I decided to give him that 2 weeks off for holiday, rather than ride, and have to stop again because of snow. I still took him out for a wander at the weekend in hand, but not 3 times a week. He was more than happy not being worked - it meant he got more time in the field to eat before coming in at night.

So what I am really saying, is that I understand the thinking behind it, and I am sure it works for a lot of people, but for me personally, I prefur more flexibility so that if I want to give my horse a few weeks holiday, I can, without breaking yard rules.
 
As long as horses are checked 1-2 times a day in the field they can be perfectly happy to be completely retired. As with all things this varies from horse to horse. Some horses appreciate a bit of 1 to 1 and like to brought in for a groom, others like nothing better than to be left in their herd.

Too prescriptive a YO for me really.
 
Hmmmm, personally I would resent being told what to do with my horse, how is the YO to know what I do or do not do when they are not around?

Does it not depend on the individual horse? I wouldn't have broodmares at a Boarding facility anyway, but mine certainly aren't walked thrice a week, they live in a field, they can do their own walking.

On the other hand, it is the YO's property and she has the absolute right to decide to insist on what she thinks best, and what she can live with, especially as YO's can be held responsible for welfare. I understand her point of view, and I don't think it is completely unreasonable. Obviously when a Boarder moves to this yard they know the rules, have signed the contract and therefore are happy with it, if you don't like it you don't move in.

My Boarders (different set up, mainly absentee owners and all on full board) have to agree to me being responsible for de-worming and routine Vet and farrier visits, the cost is included in their boarding fees (excl. Vet)
If they don't agree then they don't come, easy, I don't lose sleep over it.
 
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What are the facilities?
If it's an outdoor school are they able to make sure it is not flooded/frozen so that you can use it a minmum 3 times a week?? (good if they maintain it well)

If you ride 3 times a week anyway then it shouldn't effect you
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ETA: if they brought that rule into force where I am only me and my RI would be left!
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Facilities are floodlit school, Floodlit covered round pen, floodlit round pen, floodlit, lunge pen. 10 Liveries in total.
 
I will not be told by anyone how often I ride my horse. Absolutely none of there business IMO, as long as MY horse is happy and healthy.
 
For horses turned out 24/7/365 then the rule would be less necessary but I've hated seeing horses kept in 22-ish/7 over winter with no interaction. Def not good for their mental or physical health. So, in a yard without all year round turnout I'd say this is quite a good rule. :-) Even if horses are turned out most of the time some handling just to maintain respect and some kind of bond with humans for when necessary prob wouldn't hurt.
 
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Wow - real 'big brother' yard!! Glad it works for you but certainly wouldn't be for me. I currently have 1 broodmare and a retired 14.2 that I simply don't do a thing with at the moment. The broodmare couldn't care less and the 14.2 (daughter's 20yr old ex-bsja pony) has NEVER been happier than she is now contendedly mooching round the field. She was a real twisty snacky pony to handle and was no fun to ride except when she was jumping - not a people pony at all. She's now a much happier soul.

Edited to add I do have another 5 who do have jobs - I don't keep them all as ornaments!!

Glad it suits you though.

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We also have fines for not picking up your poo when you have been working in the school or round pens;

1st time - 5 euro
2nd time - 10 euro
3rd time - 15 euro
every time after that 25 euro

They have the cleanest school and round pens I have ever seen
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Maybe I am getting old but actually I quite like it it all runs well everyone understands each other you know exactly where you stand and no one is there bitching about "so and so and how they don't look after their horse properly" because every one does as the expectations are set out clearly in writing and we all adhere to them.

So yes it does work for me and obviously for the 10 other people there 8 of whom have been there 5 years or more.

But then the Dutch are different if you don't tell them what to do they panic and can't cope....they need someone to be in charge
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I think the idea behind it is nice but its ridiculous to apply to all horses as everyone is different. Even if a horse is not ridden, so long as it is checked twice a day it will receive interaction - eg if it was being brought in at night I would normally give mine a brush and cuddle at the same time - taking it for a walk, especially when it has just walked in from field, is unnecessary. My 2 horses have been out all winter 24/7 - one is a yearling and the other not in work at mo as I am 8 months pregnant. When the weather was bad they didnt come in at all as it was too dangerous for me to lead them in and out over icy ground (both are a bit nutty at the best of times!). They are visited twice a day, fed and cuddled and brushed in the field, and are both happy as larry. So long as they have hay they dont really care about me
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They are horses at the end of the day and that is how they are designed to live - something we tend to forget. I have no concerns about either the physical or mental wellbeing of either of my horses, and I know for a fact that if they were brought in every night my yearling would definitely not be anywhere near as relaxed. Totally agree though about horses kept in most of the time, but again interaction does not necessarily have to include moving the horse! A tough one
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I think the idea behind it is nice but its ridiculous to apply to all horses as everyone is different. Even if a horse is not ridden, so long as it is checked twice a day it will receive interaction - eg if it was being brought in at night I would normally give mine a brush and cuddle at the same time - taking it for a walk, especially when it has just walked in from field, is unnecessary. My 2 horses have been out all winter 24/7 - one is a yearling and the other not in work at mo as I am 8 months pregnant. When the weather was bad they didnt come in at all as it was too dangerous for me to lead them in and out over icy ground (both are a bit nutty at the best of times!). They are visited twice a day, fed and cuddled and brushed in the field, and are both happy as larry. So long as they have hay they dont really care about me
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They are horses at the end of the day and that is how they are designed to live - something we tend to forget. I have no concerns about either the physical or mental wellbeing of either of my horses, and I know for a fact that if they were brought in every night my yearling would definitely not be anywhere near as relaxed. Totally agree though about horses kept in most of the time, but again interaction does not necessarily have to include moving the horse! A tough one
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Hence my opening it up for debate
 
If you're happy with it, fine. But I'd hate it knowing that the YO is watching me totting up what I do and how many times I do it. There are enough people watching what you do in yards anyway without that. I'm old enough and experienced enough in general stable welfare matters to know as much as any YO and would resent being monitored like a naughty schoolgirl trying to avoid doing her homework.
 
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I think its bollox. It shouldn't be a rule. Horses are plenty happy enough stood in a field amusing themselves as long as they are healthy, fed and watered. Your YO has a cheek making that a rule. It would be fair enough to say to new liveries that, say for example, "there's not much winter turnout so the set-up doesn't generally suit retired horses as the majority of their exercise in winter has to be work". I don't think its on that people are forced to "play with" horses that would be quite happy left alone with their haynet.
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Agreed!! What a bizarre rule. I've been at a yard where there is a rule that every owner must visit at least once per day, because in summer when horses lived out certain liveries didn't bother visiting their horses and expected others to check on them. That I understand, but the above I do not!!
 
I can see why a rule like this is implemented but that wouldnt suit me. The last few weeks with all my uni work and my fence trashing cob all I have don is fed them given them a quick cuddle and sent them on their way in the field and gone back to rebuilding fences and writing assignments.
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Was planning for first ride in ages yesterday, just a plod round the village, but I have now pulled my back grrrrr might just dose up on painkillers
 
How ridiculous...change of scenery..lmao
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I could understand them saying the horse had to be turned out everyday and not left in a stable but anymore than that is just ridiculous.

Horse must have a job...lmao
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I think it is fab.

I dont want lazy liveries on my yard either, think I might add it in!!

Have a livery on my yard that pays me FORTUNES, but is so lazy, on some days she cant even be bothered to walk her horses down to the field and turn them out. It winds me up a treat....then she tells me they are "wild" and unrideable when she does try to get on!!!

The horses are all fed/well, have slightly neurotic owner (I have posted about her before) but as she is not actually doing anything neglectful, what can I say?

I would love to have it written into her contract that she had to do something with them 3x a week. They might be fed, well, etc, but what sort of quality of life do they have, and as a yard owner, what sort of power do I have to change it other than putting in a clause like the one you mention?

I think it is a fabulous idea!!!
 
There's not a chance in hell I would livery at a place that told me how many times to ride my horse in a week!!! Absolutely ridiculous - if they have liveries that do not look after their horses correctly, its up to the YO to tackle that owner individually...

"horses must have a job" - well that sort of buggers up the New Forsess, Exmoors etc etc....they must be desparately unhappy just roaming about the moors!!!

What a load of old tosh....
 
it wouldnt affect me as i ride 5 times a week anyway, and often potter about hand wlaking or hand grazing, but it would annoy me to be i was being watched and counted and if i found the YO checking up on me i would find another yard.

are the horses ever allowed a holiday, one or two weeks off?
 
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As long as horses are checked 1-2 times a day in the field they can be perfectly happy to be completely retired. As with all things this varies from horse to horse. Some horses appreciate a bit of 1 to 1 and like to brought in for a groom, others like nothing better than to be left in their herd.

Too prescriptive a YO for me really.

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My horse wishes every day that he was retired I think and would happily not come in for a groom in summer when he's out 24/7. He only likes coming in during winter because he knows there is sugar beet waiting in his feeder
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I would really resent being told by YO that I must work my horse 3x per week and it would be enough to have me looking for a new yard TBH. Some weeks I manage to work my horse every day, others I am too busy with work to do anything bar make feeds up (YO mucks out and BI/TO every day for me as part of my livery package). I actually find it rude that the YO in question feels that they can dictate to their liveries how they should work their horse. I do appreciate why they are doing it but it wouldn't be the sort of yard for me.

If my yard imposed this sort of rule then I would expect YO to ensure that our arena was ALWAYS rideable - that means no flooding, no boggy patches, not frozen, not deep, not dusty, and ideally have a roof put on.
 
It doesnt say ride, it said "activity"...therefore, horsewalker, a 40 grooming, a walk up the bridlepath in hand for a pick of grass, lunging, OR riding (heaven forbid!!) should all be included in that (thats how I read it anyway)

I think its fair enough really!!
 
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"horses must have a job" - well that sort of buggers up the New Forsess, Exmoors etc etc....they must be desparately unhappy just roaming about the moors!!!



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Well, no, because they are living in their natural environment. Most domesticated horses are confined to a 12x12 foot box, with variable access to outside space. Some get several acres but many only get a small paddock. And routine- feed times, social interaction, etc is imposed on the horse, they cant choose when they do it. So totally different imo
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I actually think the theory behind the rule is good. It will keep a certain customer at the yard and the ones that cant be bothered will go elsewhere. However it doesnt have any exemption for certain horses, which could be a problem.

It wouldnt put me off going to the yard at all, quite the opposite. Its a much better rule than many others YO come up with- no turnout if theres a dribble of rain, no hay in fields, all horses fed the same, etc.

TBH im fed up with hearing about all the yards that dont put the horses first, this is a refreshing change
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I don't think the horse has to go for a walk 3 times a week to make it happy (not if it lives out anyway.) If I had my own yard it would be the rule to atleast get the horse in and check it daily for any cuts or if the horse was left so long without being groomed that it was itchy/unhealthy under the rugs the owner would be told it needs to be done.
 
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It doesnt say ride, it said "activity"...therefore, horsewalker, a 40 grooming, a walk up the bridlepath in hand for a pick of grass, lunging, OR riding (heaven forbid!!) should all be included in that (thats how I read it anyway)

I think its fair enough really!!

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R2R you are correct the idea is that you the owner actually move your horse not just tie it outside the stall muck out fill the hay buckets and bugger off! All they are asking is you do this at least 3 times a week. No one is standing there with a note book jotting down L rode for 20 mins on Friday 4th....but obviously as everyone tends to be very active with their horses they want people who will fit in with that.

So R2R what do you think of the non poo picking fines then
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i think that we have somthing sililar in our livery contract (although it does not specifiy a "minimum contact time") and I think that our yard would not be any different if it was there or not as people are around most of the time anyway. personally I think that there is nothing better than a busy livery yard with plenty of people about (other than the obligitory issues/fun with areana booking/access!) - makes it much more than a social thing.
 
An intersting debate! As a yo I am not totally against this rule, although wouldn't impose it on my own liveries.

Horse ownership is more than a hurried 1/2 hr fitted in when it suits the owner - in my opinion horses like routine and contact, and the most settled and best behaved horses on my yard are the ones with the owners who put in the most time.

Also the ones that are less 'looked out' for can create problems for YO's eg being stressed in the field and trashing grazing, fencing etc. This also places additional responsibilty on the yard owner who may have to step in because the owner is not around and have to make decisions on their behalf.

Horse ownership is a huge responsibility, not unlike having a child, and I feel if you choose to have these wonderful creatures you need to put the hours in, regardless of other committments.

Hope I don't get shot down in flames for this!!!
 
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