Livery Yard - duty of care

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adpierce

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A friend of mine has just had her horse put down - 4 weeks after moving to a particular livery yard.
The fencing between paddocks is in a very poor state and keeps falling down.
On a previous occassion the horses from an adjacent paddock broke through the fencing and attacked and kicked my friends horse - luckly on that occassion the horse did not have shoes on the back.
She complained to the livery owner about the fencing and her concern. Nothing was done.
Yesterday the horse broke through again and attacked and kicked her horse. This time it had shoes on and to quote the vet, the leg was broken so bad it was like gravel.
This same horse has also kicked at riders walking through the paddock.
She is very distraught at her loss but the reaction of the livery owners is that "these things happen" and they have showed no concern, remorse or compassion whatsoever.
The catalogue of stupid things the livery yard owners subjected her horse to sadly ended with the demise of her horse.
When she first arrived, they made her put her gelding in with a stroppy mare in season which attacked him on an almost continual basis (because they felt sorry for the mare). The horses were segregated only when an adjacent farmer witnessed the mare actually kicking her gelding over a fence.
Anyone got any advice
 
Ring up the BHS legal helpline. Was there a contract? Sounds like lack of care to me, but I don't know the legal ins and outs.
 
Ok, why dd she move to this place in the first place if the fencing was so rubbish?
And should she not have done something after the first incident?
 
the yard does have a duty of care to her of course, especially if she was on full livery. however it sounds like the fencing was in a poor state when she arrived so i would take it she accepted it for what it was on arrival. as for the turnout arrangements, i am a YO and always try my best to pair horses with freinds and though you dont always get it right you know when things arent working and you separate them straight away, the yard sounds badly run and the people very uncaring, ring the BHS if your a member they give free legal advice. hugs for her loss, i would be distraught if tht happened to any of mine
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I too am a Yard Owner and when I took out my Public Liability Insurance I had to fill out a form stating that my fencing was horse proof and of good order, they even wanted to know what type of fencing I had and if it was backed by hedging. I would take pictures of the fencing as proof it was not in good order and put in a claim of personal damage. Should the court find the yard owner negligent she will have to pay for the cost of the horse, vet fees and legal costs. This happened to one of my friends show horses at a top show yard, she was awarded £18k for all her trouble. It makes me soooo angry when livery owners run a shabby setup but expect the hard earned cash of their liveries. I have post and rail everywhere with a top run of electric fencing to put them off completely, I walk the fencing once a week for damages and get the fencing guys to come over every year to nail in again in case it has slackened over the gales in the winter. If they dont have the money for decent fencing etc then they shouldn't be running a livery!!
 
If there was a contract then yes, the yard owner does owe a contractual duty of care that they have taken upon themselves. Don't quote me on that though. Get legal advice if you have a citezens advice beuro (sp?) and ring them and explain. I would be after that YO's backside if that was my horse. My regards for your friend, she must be distraught, my thoughts are with her.. RIP Neddy
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it sounds dodgy to me but i have to say that i wouldn't have moved there in the first place and i certainly wouldn't have been made to turn them out in a field i wasn't happy with!
 
marie and dressage-babe good on you girls...wish there were more YOs like you guys around. You should be proud of yourselves for running such a good setup. People are quick to critisise (and too bloody right in this case) but sometimes those who run good yards need to be commended as well x
 
Hi and thanks for the advice to date.,
The yard is a DIY livery - although she asked about rules and a contract the owner said they ran it on an informal basis.
The groundsmen have also voiced concern that the fencing was is need of replacement.
She bought her horse in August 2007 and moved there because the livery she was at was basically a muddy field (cheap and cheerful at £5 per week but no grass, no stable - just mud).
This new place offered large grassed paddocks and new stables. I guess when she first visited she thought no reason to closely inspect the fencing between the two paddocks as all the other fencing was post and rail - this was old iron fencing which was rusty and just falling apart.
I am appalled at the lack of compassion.
Oh, interestingly, the yard owner is a member of the local Hunt. I spoke to some of the members and they tell me that she is so dim that she has turned up at meets with trailer in tow but no horse!!!
Also of interest is the cost of collecting the horse by the local knackers yard was £470 - my own allowance with Petplan is £200. We arranged for the horse to be taken there but the cost of incineration was still £170.
Thanks everyone.
 
Whilst I agree with all your sentiments & I feel sorry for the horse that was injured, the OP was aware of a potential situation. It was a matter of time. For me it is no use moaning after the event. If you do not agree with something, in this case the fencing, vote with your feet & get out of there. There are too many people on here that take the cheaper route then complain about standards afterwards. There is a duty of care on both sides.
 
Sadley, she is not in an area with a plethora of livery yards so in this case she was a bit stuck and had decided to sell the horse.
To compound her bad luck, she actually had someone coming to view the horse the following day (they were supposed to come on Monday then rescheduled for Wednesday - horse put down on Tuesday).
But I know what you mean and in fact we are moving our three horses this weekend from a yard because of a number of inadequacies which have not been rectified (the new yard has clear duties and responsibilities for horse owner and livery provider).
Pity these yards don't come up to the same standards as those of Dressage_Babe and marieE or even those promoted in the Code of Practice issued jointly by BEVA, BHS, RSPCA and ILPH.
I'm not sure licensing is the best way forward (bureaucracy etc) but I feel something is required.
Probably scope for a new discussion topic but, for this topic, I feel the YO is culpable in some way.
 
If you stick your horse out in a field where the fencing is not suitable - then who is at fault??????

Personally I would say the owner of the horse for putting the horse in the field.

Sorry - your friend must be devasted, but come on......
 
i'm sorry for your friends loss but i can't understand why she kept turning him out in a field with such bad fencing, if she was so worried about the fencing he would of been better off kept in or for her to move yards. i think there is duty of care but on both sides, as yes the YO should have better fencing however your friend also didn't need to turn him out if the fencing was so bad. also it's not like the fencing sounds like it was that brilliant when she moved there
 
This is so tragic for the horse and your friend, I think that anyone who takes money for livery has a duty of care, but I really cannot believe that the horse was injured before and nothing done. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but no-way would any of mine go in a field with poor fencing. If its any help I knew someone who had a similar incident but the horse was injured rather than destroyed and she got solicitors involved who made mincemeat of the yard owners and the case was settled out of court.
 
I agree that livery owners do have a duty of care towards the horses kept on their yards, and their owners, in principle. In practice though, I've yet to find a yard where the fencing is decently built and/or maintained. As I have had youngsters (foals upwards) on DIY at these yards, I buy my own electric fencing; that way I know that my horses will stay where they are supposed to be, with no visitors, and won't be able to get legs caught (my current field has sheep mesh on two sides
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It is also interesting that YOs have told me many times that 'Everyone knows barbed wire/sheep fence/electric fence with no voltage/broken post and rail (delete as appropriate) is fine for horses, Shilasdair'. I put it down to Instant Expert Syndrome, smile, and keep putting up my fencing
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S
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Well quite! Why in the world would the horse owner not put up electric if she knew there was a problem with the fencing
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. Seems simple to me. I really don't get all these DIY people who moan when things go wrong, when they are surely smart enough to sort the problem out for themselves if they don't like what they see; and that is either sort the issue, or move to another place where the standards are higher.

Sad to hear about the horse but really, what a foolish person the horse owner has been and in my opinion she is at fault - she chose to put her horse in a field that she knew was not suitably fenced; the horse owner has ultimate responsibility for the proper care of her horse.
 
First regarding electric fencing. Not everyone has the knowledge to put fencing up correctly. Not only are there human fatalities each year from incorrect application, I have lost count of the number of times I've seen animals break through it or seen tape blowing in the wind or wrapped around animals legs. It is not a panacea and apart from which the landowner would not permit electric fencing.
Secondly, I am also at a loss to understand the logic that if something is wrong with a product or service then the onus lies on the receiver to sort it not the provider. If we were to apply this same logic to everyday life makes me wonder why people complain about anything. I think courts might take a different view.
Thirdly as previously mentioned, she doesn't live in an area where livery yards are generally available. Because of this and because of the problems she took a decision to sell the horse - sadly before it could be collected this tragedy occurs. What was she supposed to do, take it home!!!
Finally, I am reliably informed that the YO does have a number of legal responsibilities not least of which comes under bailment and the obligation to protect the horse from damage from other animals so thanks to those who offered positive suggestions such as contacting legal helplines etc..
 
Take photos of the fencing and date them. Get a full vets report. Instruct a specialist practice of Equine Solicitors to take action against the yard owner to recover the loss of the horse, vets fees, the knackerman, the mental trauma to the owner and full costs including solicitors fees etc.

There are a number of good equine solicitor practices and some of them advertise in magazines such as Horse and Hounds and Your Horse.

Further details of Equine Solicitors are:

http://www.animallawyers.co.uk/members.pdf
 
regardless of resonsibility of the landowner and who 'should' do it, at the end of the day it is her horse and if she wanted to keep him safe she should have done something about it.
The horse is the victim at the end of that day imo.
 
[ QUOTE ]
First regarding electric fencing. Not everyone has the knowledge to put fencing up correctly. Not only are there human fatalities each year from incorrect application, I have lost count of the number of times I've seen animals break through it or seen tape blowing in the wind or wrapped around animals legs. It is not a panacea and apart from which the landowner would not permit electric fencing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I take your point, as I said, about the YO having a duty of care. Electric fence is simple - though...all you need are a set of posts, some tape, a power unit, a 12v car battery (with a handle is best) and a battery charger. And try as I might to kill various people with my 12v car battery electric fencing, I have sadly failed
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All fencing has risks - post and rail, in particular.
Good luck with the claim.
S
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I am sorry about your friends horse but the first and foremost duty of care is with the owner...If she wasn't happy about the fencing then buy some electric fencing and put it up inside the field boundary or don't move to that particular yard....

When are people going to take responsibility for their own animals, sorry but I am sick to death of seeing posts like this.
 
Your friend's YO had a duty of care. BUT your friend also had a duty of care to her horse. And turning him out into a field where the fencing was of a poor standard and she knew that, is irresponsible on her part too. I know that that sounds harsh, and I do genuinely feel sorry both for your friend and for her horse.

Maybe your friend can sue the YO, I don't know. And I do agree that when someone takes payment for a service which involves horses living in paddocks then they do have a duty to provide adequate and safe grazing and fencing.

But to me, my horses are like our children. Would I let a child play outside where there were hazards which I knew about, yet turned a blind eye to? No I wouldn't. Nor would I do that with my horses.
 
I take the point but where is she supposed to move the horse to?
Regarding moving there in the first place - the field which she was shown is about 25 acres with little mud and excellent grazing. On 3½ sides is post and rail fencing so all looked well. Even the steel rail fencing looked okay from a distance and it was only when the horse in the adjacent paddock broke through that the problem was identified and the YO informed.
As I have repeatedly said the facility to move was not available hence her attempt to sell the horse.
I guess she had no room in her apartment so in the interim there was no recourse but to put the horse where the YO directed her to put it - back in the field; a field where the landowner would not permit electric fencing.
But we all take calculated risks especially when we have no other recourse.
Why for instance did the horse in the adjacent paddock break through the fence (we now think it tried to jump it) as there was plenty of grass in all the fields and each field is over 20 acres.
Why did it attack her horse and not one of the other three in the field?
Regarding children playing - if, God forbids, a drunk or speeding driver knocked one down on the pavement outside their school would you accept it on the basis that it is public knowledge that these things happen or would you pursue through to the highest Court in the Land? Me, I'd choose the latter.
 
She can always pull rank and ask the YO for a copy of her commercial planning certificate!!! I suspect she hasn't got planning to run a livery.
 
Thanks Dressage_Babe for another gem.

I spoke to my friend and, as Frank Carson used to say, there's more!!
It seems that before the incident there were 15 horses at two yards operated by the same YO and separated by the fields.
The owner of the other three horse which shared this same field as my friend are moving theirs tomorrow - but they know a farmer who is letting them put them on his fields until they find alternative arrangements.
The owners of the horses that broke through haven't even offered condolences and are leaving their horses in the field - with the fence as it is!!!
I guess it must be a mindset or something because that field also has a plethora of fox, badger and rabbit holes so the potential for a broken leg is quite high.

Makes you wonder!!!
 
This is a really good reason why livery yards should be licenced. I hate to say it and I know it will probably offend a LOT of people but.... keeping a horse is not cheap. Only around about 15 years ago DIY livery yards were very few and far between - horse owners were usually people with their own land, farmers or those with enough means to keep a horse in full livery.

These days DIY yards are popping up all over the place offering a huge range from very cheap and cheerful (to be honest I was GOBSMACKED when I heard how cheap this yard was) through to the very well run BHS approved yards which usually cost more. This means there are more and more owners out there who perhaps do not have a real ability to cover all of the costs of keeping a horse at a decent yard.

Even with high standards and higher charges, very few yard owners can actually make a decent living.

I certainly do not defend the yard owners in this case but the owner of the horse had a choice - I would never turn out my horse without being totally happy myself and even then, at my own risk.

The other huge problem is that if these yard owners are found liable for the losses (who knows if they have insurance, sounds like they won't!) this just sends yard insurance costs sky high and this is why the better yards who abide by the rules end up going out of business.

I really feel for this girl but common sense must apply. Owners MUST start taking responsibility for their own decisions and start supporting BHS approved yards and push for Livery Yard Licencing.

Ok, rant over!
 
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