Livery yard expectations - Is it me?!?

JadeyB

JadeyB

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I'm seriously wondering whether the problem might be me now because i just can't seem to find a livery yard where they do what they say they will!

I keep my horse on an assisted DIY basis... so my only expectations are that i get told if there's going to be a change in his routine, i.e. new field and if there are any problems but time and time again i'll come down to discover a new kick/cut which i've not been told about or i get told by other liveries that we're moving fields but the yard manager says nothing to me! Is it really too much to ask to be communicated with?!?
 
I feel your pain. I started to think i was being too demanding when on a livery yard but actually looking back they were just a bit useless!!

Now on a private yard so only have to moan ocassionally about silly things .. you know .. leaving gates open, not locking feed room ... all the silly things that dont seem to matter!!! :mad:
 
I think this is probably just a hiccup in communications, have a chat with the staff. Is this a large busy yard?

Do they have a notice board in the barn for paddock moves?

Presumably for minor field scrapes etc the staff assume (bad thing assumption) that you will notice them when you come up, I am sure that they would let you know immediately if there was a real problem, and would not leave a wound unattended to if it warranted attention.

What are your instructions to them?
Do you ask to be notified immediately?
Do you expect them to treat minor wounds?
If I wanted to know what was going on then I would put a chalkboard up on my door and ask them to leave notes there, it isn't hard to scribble "horses move to xyz field Monday"

I have to say that I don't tell my liveries when I am moving fields, it is in the contract that I have the right to move horses when and where I feel best. I do however put notes on the board in the barn so that people can actually find their horses.

I do full livery, my owners do not expect to be informed about everyday bumps and bruises, they trust me to deal with them. Obviously anything rating above bumps and bruises is notified.
 
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Assisted DIY - which bits do you get assistance with exactly?

For DIY of any type I really wouldn't expect very much, I wouldn't expect them to notice every scrape and bump unless it was their remit to thoroughly check the horse twice a day and even at that point your horse may end up with a bumb that happened after the last check.
 
I think that's maybe some of the trouble, most of the yard are part/full livery so don't expect to be told about cuts/kicks and field changes but because i bring my horse in everyday i do need to know if he's not where i expect him to be, even if it's just a note on the notice board i'd be happy.

Assisted DIY in this case means during the week he gets turned out by the yard and i do the rest. I used to occasionally pay for a bring in/day cover but got tired of finding cuts/kicks on my horse. I always ask if he came in with it and just get told 'oh yeah but i'm sure he'll live'. The herd in the field my boy in is constantly changing so that doesn't help.

It also grates on me when the yard manager moves her own horses from that field onto a better field then tells me she can't risk her horse being kicked by on of the ones out with mine.

Ah well... it's a shame because i thought it was going to be a fab yard, and it could be but i'm no longer happy so have decided to leave rather than get fed up and moany! :)
 
I've seen this as an ongoing problem for many years. Livery Yard owners only too happy to take your money, make promises and that's as far as it goes. There are some good ones to be found but they might not be as convenient for you and that's something you have to weigh up
I would sit down politely with your yard manager or owner and tell them that you aren't happy with certain things and see how it progresses from there.
I can see that its not always possible to spot minor injuries - if the horses are checked X number of times a day then something can happen outside of that time, even keeping my horses at home as I do I don't constantly go out to see if they have a small cut or bump - but I would notice if one was limping or looking 'wrong'
 
I'm on assisted DIY (he's fed in the morning, and in the winter when he's stabled overnight, he'll be turned out) but the lady who does it for me is a fellow livery client.

We've had quite a few field changes (I only got him in May, and we've changed fields and field companions several times) but now we seem to have settled *touch wood*

ACtually, our field-hopping was instigated because someone's horse booted another who was just stood quietly at the water bucket.
 
I don't mind the changing fields at all and i accept that not all lumps/bumps are spotted, it's just the general lack of communication that doesn't work for me. Maybe i'm more precious about my horse than i realised, or maybe i was spoilt in the past by having a horsey friend who i could totally rely on if i needed any help (seems to be the best way when you're DIY, although can be frowned on by some livery managers)

Luckily i know where to find my horse tonight but it would have been nice to have been told by the person i pay a lot of money to.
 
I don't think you're precious at all. We should all want the best we can afford for our horses and when you pay for something you expect a good service.
You can only discuss with the yard owner really and see how things work out in the future. Good luck with resolving this
 
I do agree that good yards are getting harder to come by. It personally feels like the demand is greater than the supply but I do also feel sometimes like I must be impossible to please.
Our yard seems to fall over every time the YM has a day off so 2 days per week it all goes to pot.
I have 3 on DIY so I require very little staff intervention but for instance 2 of mine are in during the day and the yard rule is that all horses get fed together at 17:00. Went up last week and at 17:06 found my mare with the most enormous swelling at the top of her neck which was spreading down her neck - no one had seen it. I assume feed was thrown in then over the door whilst they had their eyes shut.
One another occasion I was tacking up at 18:05 thinking that my girl had been fed at 17:00 as normal and it was another livery who came and told me that she'd only been fed some 15mins prior. When I lost the plot over the this I was told they thought I'd be angry that they'd fed so late - well yes but not as angry as I was that they'd let me colic her!

I've seen full liveries have their vaccinations forgotten and then get charged to start jabs again. I hayed 2 full liveries last week as I was the last person on the yard and realised that they were looking at me and not eating - no nets in boxes. Guess no final check done then of kick bolts and waters / hay etc.

I already pay more than my mortgage to have my horses but honestly even if money was not an issue I wouldn't go to part or full livery - I'd be worried sick.
There honestly isn't a "bad" person on our yard and they all mean well but the basics seem to not be taught anymore and it's perceived to be easy money :-(
 
I did part livery for a while once and came down to find 4 rugs on my horse, when i asked if he'd been cold they said they didn't think so, they'd just put on all of the rugs i'd left out for him! My poor boy couldn't move! I had to laugh at the time because it was so ridiculous! but then to keep costs down they employ young people who aren't always very knowledgable.
i think i just need to win the lottery, buy a house with stables and have him at home, then the only person i need to moan at is myself! :)
 
JadeyB said:
It also grates on me when the yard manager moves her own horses from that field onto a better field then tells me she can't risk her horse being kicked by on of the ones out with mine.

Ah well... it's a shame because i thought it was going to be a fab yard, and it could be but i'm no longer happy so have decided to leave rather than get fed up and moany! :)
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Um, sorry but re. the first statement re. YM's horses; hate to say it but this is the way things are very often!!! You either likes it or you lumps it, but it needs to be balanced with the fact that the YM is responsible for the yard and is there to make sure things function smoothly, very likely with very little financial reward for doing a helluva lot that others don't notice. So personally I would say it is the YM's "right" if you like, to put her own horses where she chooses. Ditto YO.

Re. moving. Yes, probably the best choice. If a livery in my yard wasn't happy, I'd far rather they moved. But at your new place take a good look at the contract and see if there's anything there that might "grate". (um, sorry, don't mean to sound preachy but SO many people move to a yard without a contract being in place, its there for everyone's benefit).
 
This one livery I worked at had this saying that the horses are our main concern forget the owners!

Got to the point that if a horse jumped a fence, escaped or got really bad behaviour wise. We under no circumstances tell the owners?!

Also if something didn't get done that should be done, it would be blagged, we weren't allowed to admit that we forgot something!

I ended up leaving as I was having to lie about everything that was happening to the owners.

Owners didn't even get a say in what horses their horses were turned out with or what fields etc.
 
I hate to break it to you, but the reason good yards are getting harder to find is that it is virtually impossible to make money out of livery! We have been running a DIY yard for 18 years now and I am amazed that people very quickly forget that DIY stands for DO IT YOURSELF! For the £3.50 per day it costs to keep horses on our yard for that our clients get 24hr security, an all weather arena with lights and mirrors, 200 acres of off road riding with XC course, a summer SJ field and 24hr grazing in summer with daily T/O every day in winter. We make nothing at all from this, we make our money from the sale of hay, straw and any services required. I know that at some point in the future I will have to call it a day as it will start to actually cost us to have the liveries here. Unfortunately, from experience, people want more and more from there yards but don't like it when the price goes up accordingly. With regards to the duty of care aspect from the yard manager, how much would you be willing to do for £3.50 per day per horse? Think about it?
 
WinkingWillow said:
I hate to break it to you, but the reason good yards are getting harder to find is that it is virtually impossible to make money out of livery! We have been running a DIY yard for 18 years now and I am amazed that people very quickly forget that DIY stands for DO IT YOURSELF! For the £3.50 per day it costs to keep horses on our yard for that our clients get 24hr security, an all weather arena with lights and mirrors, 200 acres of off road riding with XC course, a summer SJ field and 24hr grazing in summer with daily T/O every day in winter. We make nothing at all from this, we make our money from the sale of hay, straw and any services required. I know that at some point in the future I will have to call it a day as it will start to actually cost us to have the liveries here. Unfortunately, from experience, people want more and more from there yards but don't like it when the price goes up accordingly. With regards to the duty of care aspect from the yard manager, how much would you be willing to do for £3.50 per day per horse? Think about it?
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Amen
 
£3.50 per day would just about get you grass livery here! Use of facilities, but no additional care, or hay included.
 
WinkingWillow said:
I hate to break it to you, but the reason good yards are getting harder to find is that it is virtually impossible to make money out of livery! We have been running a DIY yard for 18 years now and I am amazed that people very quickly forget that DIY stands for DO IT YOURSELF! For the £3.50 per day it costs to keep horses on our yard for that our clients get 24hr security, an all weather arena with lights and mirrors, 200 acres of off road riding with XC course, a summer SJ field and 24hr grazing in summer with daily T/O every day in winter. We make nothing at all from this, we make our money from the sale of hay, straw and any services required. I know that at some point in the future I will have to call it a day as it will start to actually cost us to have the liveries here. Unfortunately, from experience, people want more and more from there yards but don't like it when the price goes up accordingly. With regards to the duty of care aspect from the yard manager, how much would you be willing to do for £3.50 per day per horse? Think about it?
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I'm under no illusion that yard owners are raking it in however I expect to get what I pay for - no more and no less. If a service was promised for the amount I pay I expect to get it. If I don't pay for it I don't expect to get it. It doesn't matter what the charge is - charge more if you think you are not getting enough how can I be blamed for you underestimating the cost of providing livery? You must get something out of it or why would you and many others do it?

I pay £4.93 a day (£150 pcm) and we have no services at all, no XC, no 24hr T/O, no SJ field. DIY means to me that I arrange myself for my friends to help me (although I do pay a friend Mon-Fri) and I them not that I'm hide bound to pay the yard to do services for me unless that was clearly laid out at the beginning. I do expect the facilities including, fields, school and stables to be maintained in good order like they were when I came to the yard. If prices need to increase to cover the costs of this then so be it. A good yard will still get and keep good and faithful liveries.
 
if the YO wishes to put their horse in a better field, what business is it of yours? Its their land after all. I gave up with liveries after many years of people wanting a 6 star service but not willing to pay more than 1 star. If you dont like it then find somewhere else. most yard owners (yes I know there are exceptions to this rule) work long hard hours for a pittance that barely covers their expenses. I love having my yard to myself, having more time for my own horses and not surprisingly....more money!
 
Basically you need individual turnout for your horse(and i dont mean isolation)then you won't have the problems you've had to deal with so far, or the resulting Frustrations. It might be worth asking.
 
Sorry, OP but things can get a LOT worse than the stuff you've experienced. Don't get me started on the rip-offs I experienced on expensive full livery. And how about full retirement livery (ha ha) where the goal posts moved from "coming in whenever they want" to NEVER coming in, "feed supplied" to NO feed supplied, "haylage provided in field" to "when we run out of our own haylage, NOTHING gets supplied, full livery became only 1 visit provided per day and a complaint that my elderly cob had lost 1/4 of his body weight produced the mind-boggling reply "oh we like to see the ribs on our oldies". Needless to say, my horse and ponies were removed immediately but I still had to fork out 1 months notice. It is my sad experience that YOs lie, rip you off and treat your horse like *****. I took a YO to court many years ago because, contrary to clear instructions to soak my hay-allergy horse's winter hay, she couldn't be arsed and she destroyed my horse's lungs. Call me jaundiced and bitter but that's been my experience.
 
Neburu: [ Owners didn't even get a say in what horses their horses were turned out with or what fields etc. ]

My owners don't either. Why persist in trying to keep, say, a randy, bully of a gelding the size of a brick outhouse in with mares or younger, weaker horses?

I put horses where they are happy, and as I see them every single day, for hours, I come to KNOW where they are happiest. Peaceful herds make happy horses. Happy horses make happy owners... and yes, if owners are not happy then they are welcome to leave .

BOF, are you still at H's?

I also agree with Carsmore, where the YO, or YM chooses to put their horses is of no concern to liveries. Most of my horses run with liveries, but if I choose to use such and such paddock for my own horses for whatever reason then I would and I certainly do not have to justify my actions to my liveries, mostly I do because I happen to like my Owners very much.
 
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For me, all that is needed is communication. Simple as. How hard is it to have a large whiteboard in a communal area and jot down things of relevance?

I left a yard where there was zero communication. It drove several of us nuts, and we voted with our feet. Totally unnecessary as we tried our hardest to be understanding (youngish YO) but after lie upon lie ultimately affected the wellbeing of our horses, that was that.
 
sussexbythesea said:
I'm under no illusion that yard owners are raking it in however I expect to get what I pay for - no more and no less. If a service was promised for the amount I pay I expect to get it. If I don't pay for it I don't expect to get it. It doesn't matter what the charge is - charge more if you think you are not getting enough how can I be blamed for you underestimating the cost of providing livery? You must get something out of it or why would you and many others do it?

I pay £4.93 a day (£150 pcm) and we have no services at all, no XC, no 24hr T/O, no SJ field. DIY means to me that I arrange myself for my friends to help me (although I do pay a friend Mon-Fri) and I them not that I'm hide bound to pay the yard to do services for me unless that was clearly laid out at the beginning. I do expect the facilities including, fields, school and stables to be maintained in good order like they were when I came to the yard. If prices need to increase to cover the costs of this then so be it. A good yard will still get and keep good and faithful liveries.
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Well sussexbythesea,I ask myself that question on a weekly basis. The main reason I have liveries is it is company for me and I am in the very fortunate position of not actually having to make a living out of it, thank god! The bit of money we make on the hay etc, pays towards the cost of keeping my own horse but as you will no doubt be aware, the cost of keeping horses is rising all the time, just not in the area of livery it seems? It's fine you saying that if we aren't charging enough then just charge more, but I am constantly getting told by some of my liveries how much they are struggling to keep their horses, so we then feel guilted into absorbing rising costs ourselves. I mean if we had to increase the price of livery every time the cost of electricity or water or weed killer.......the list goes on and on and on, went up, we would be putting prices up on an almost quarterly basis! If any of our liveries pay for an extra service, they darn well get it. It would appear I am a rarity in this game? Maybe that's why some of our clients have been with us for over 9 years? I just worry that over time more and more yards will close and then people will have less choice where to go. The charges for livery need to go up significantly for it to make it worthwhile doing it but sadly as I said earlier, many people simply cannot afford too pay more.
 
Perhaps you are just too nice? :) You can't be in the South-East to only charge what you do and I am sure I would feel the same if I were you :)

However people will always say they can't pay more - Why would they say any different? I don't want to pay more but if my yard livery went up it would have to be significant for me to uproot myself and my horse from a place where we are both (and especially my horse) happy and settled. For me the things that make me want to leave are unreasonable conditions and YO/YMs who are rude and poor at communication. Even then I put up with that if it doesn't directly affect my horses well-being.
 
OP, I don't understand your problem. I can see that you need to be able to find your horse to bring it in but if you bring it in yourself how would the YM/YO know about any cuts/scrapes before you do?

The more I read/hear about livery problems the more glad I am that we don't take liveries.
 
Wow, this seems to have gotten a little 'off track', my only real issue is communication... i just think i should be made aware of any changes to my horse's routine, whether that be verbally, via text or a note on the notice board. in the past yards have always done this which is maybe why i find it odd that at this place that doesn't happen.

I have no problem with the money i pay for my livery, which is more like £8 a day, i am aware that the YM works hard and long hours for not much profit because i used to run a yard myself, i didn't question that, and yes it is up to them what they do with their own horses, it was just a gripe that it seemed unfair that it was made to sound like it is ok for my horse to be at risk but not theirs.

And regarding the last post, i do bring in most days but occasionally use the services for when i cannot, and as part of 'bring in and finish up' my experience is that the horse is bought in, feet picked out and has an eye cast over them. that was my understanding of what i was paying for but maybe it's my fault for not checking on the exact details... i assumed which is never a good thing to do.
 
WinkingWillow said:
I hate to break it to you, but the reason good yards are getting harder to find is that it is virtually impossible to make money out of livery! We have been running a DIY yard for 18 years now and I am amazed that people very quickly forget that DIY stands for DO IT YOURSELF! For the £3.50 per day it costs to keep horses on our yard for that our clients get 24hr security, an all weather arena with lights and mirrors, 200 acres of off road riding with XC course, a summer SJ field and 24hr grazing in summer with daily T/O every day in winter. We make nothing at all from this, we make our money from the sale of hay, straw and any services required. I know that at some point in the future I will have to call it a day as it will start to actually cost us to have the liveries here. Unfortunately, from experience, people want more and more from there yards but don't like it when the price goes up accordingly. With regards to the duty of care aspect from the yard manager, how much would you be willing to do for £3.50 per day per horse? Think about it?
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Wow . . . £3.50/day . . . that's how many horses (on yard)?

I totally understand that livery yard owners (particularly DIY) don't make a lot of money . . . but I do marvel at how far some YOs (not you) are willing to take that DIY label. I pay £170/month (which includes an additional £20/month for use of the school) . . . for that I get a stable, access to water facilities, 365 turnout (not 24/7), floodlit all-weather arena, access to Forestry Commission land for hacking, cross country fences, secure tackroom, secure rug room, toilet/tea making facilities, etc. We poo pick our own fields, pay for our own fertilizers/weedkillers/grass seed (although YM will spread it for us if asked) and there is NO assistance offered by YO/YM (although we liveries do muck in and help each other out).

It's in our contract that YO/YM will harrow the school, empty the muck trailer, sort out fences/breakages on yard, mend broken water troughs in fields (no waterers in stables), empty the water butt if necessary, rod the drains, distribute hay and straw (bought from him) and generally keep the yard and fields safe for people and horses alike.

He will NOT mend field fencing (post and rail), clear barbed wire, provide/maintain any additional fencing, harrow/top/roll fields . . . unless we pay for time and materials - this isn't stated in our contract.

I get that the yard is DIY, but I don't expect DIY to include field fence maintenance. We clear out the guttering ourselves to avoid flooding, we have been known to rod the drains ourselves when YO isn't around/is unavailable, he frequently leaves for the weekend (we don't see him from Friday afternoon until Monday morning) without emptying the muck trailer, we have manually raked and resurfaced the school ourselves because it hadn't been harrowed for so long, etc. What does DIY mean to you - where do YO/YMs responsibilities begin and end (ditto those of the liveries)?

P
 
We have capacity for 16 so only a small yard. My horse goes out always with the liveries. We do all the field maintenance, including fencing, harrowing etc, ourselves. All our clients have to do is make sure their horses feet are clean before going in the arena and pick up any droppings the horse has done in there. No poopicking of fields or any other work. I communicate with all clients via text and whiteboard and ALWAYS keep them well up to date with what's happening. I think I go above and way beyond what's reasonably expected, but then I like to think that if one of our clients saw my horse in distress or in need of help they would let me know or if I wasn't around, they would help her themselves.
 
Ive previously had this option and basically as I wasn't important and the full liveries-who made them money, my horse was often forgotten or once wasn't turned out as she was "lively" whilst crossing the yard. Once I found her after 6 with her headcollar still on, leadrope wrapped round her leg so she was on three legs, still boots on, and they had thrown her feed over the door but she hadn't been able to get to it.
Unfortunately unless you are on a yard where its all the same level ive often found that these problems happen!
 
Personally, as a customer at a livery yard, I don't think it looks very professional when YO's horses get the best feed, the best hay, the best field, and the biggest stables, when I am paying to keep my horse there. I expect YO's horses to be treated exactly the same as mine.
 
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