Livery Yard Issues - Help

[Umpy22]

Hi H&H forum members,

I'm in a pickle.

I'm on a beautiful yard with my two horses, one retired, one in work, and both on 7 day part livery. I've been there for almost 2 years and the yard has doubled in size in the past 9 months.

My issue is this. We have been in since the beginning of October, there is no turn out at all, and whilst my horses appear to be happy and both have much larger than the average stable, (plus they are exercised daily - one ridden, the retired chap does in hand stuff), I'm struggling a bit with the ever-changing goalposts from the YO.

I pay £675 per month (great yard, I'm happy with the cost) and with that I have access to hay/haylage, limited, not ad-lib, plus straw bedding or I can buy shavings from the yard as they bulk buy. My contract says part livery includes turn out and bring in daily, feet picked out, rug changes, hay nets made up, a skip out of the stables, I do a more thorough muck out every evening, water, feed (not included) etc.

I'm struggling a little as YO in the past few weeks has been a bit upset about things like putting in additional hay nets (which I make up in advance as they no longer do my hay nets), because I think they are struggling with the additional workload for their part and full liveries, as the horses are all in. It's not a small yard, it has approx 40 horses and 3 members of staff plus YO, so I do get it and understand the pressure they're under, plus the rising costs of everything being in. They have now decided that they will not provide any services to part liveries past 11am as that's all they cover, which isn't correct as bring in, when they're out, is normally around 4-5pm.

I've done all I'm able to do to help in terms of making feeds in advance, getting hay nets ready etc but I'm not sure what else I can do to make things any easier. Sadly, I now find I'm in a situation where a hay net given in the morning is expected to last all day until I arrive after work, which is often not until 4-4.30pm. I've been told that time is money, and I do understand this, however, I was not told when moving to the yard that there would be no winter turnout and the services I pay for would then be an issue, or I wouldn't have moved there! The only option available to me right now is to go on full livery, which I can't afford, try to get there in my lunch break to feed a net, which isn't doable, or pay a freelancer to pop in, which again is not affordable.

I have tried speaking to the YO about this and said it takes less time to put a net in than it does to bring in, which is a service I'm paying for. I haven't said anything about the other things I get ready in advance and that they are part of the services that should be provided, and I pay for, as I don't begrudge doing the extra stuff as I'm happy to do whatever makes it easier. My primary concern is that my horses are spending long periods of time without forage. My retired gelding has had ulcers in the past which were incredibly challenging, and expensive, to resolve and I don't fancy my chances at going down that route again, for his sake and comfort more than mine, but also as it's incredibly expensive as ulcers are now excluded from his insurance policy.

I love the yard, the people, the location, everything, but this situation is really getting me down.

I'm tidy, I pay my bills on time (often in advance of the due date), I get on with everyone, help when needed etc, so I'm a bit frazzled to find myself in this situation and just really needed to share as I wonder if I'm being silly or unreasonable to feel this way.

If you got this far, thank you for reading. And thank you in advance for any advice you may have.

 

[lozzles]

Have you been flooded or is this now the norm for winter turnout there? For the haynets would you be allowed to leave an extra large one out for each of them to last the day?

 

[Bobthecob15]

I can relate to this, our yard has become busier and I also do my feeds and haynets even though I’m on 7 day full livery…the services they provide has started to reduce, again due to time. Same as you, great facilities etc but what is offered has reduced and corners have been cut to save money and time. We also get little winter turnout.

I haven’t much advice other than to look at alternatives? I don’t really want to move but sometimes these little things all add up until you get to breaking point and wonder why you are basically doing the work for them!

I just wanted to say I can share in your frustration! X

 

[Umpy22]

Have you been flooded or is this now the norm for winter turnout there? For the haynets would you be allowed to leave an extra large one out for each of them to last the day?

I think the issue is the yard has doubled in size gradually over the past 9 months, but the grazing hasn't increased. Last winter they were mainly out, just a few days in. It's also been very wet up here which hasn't helped. To be honest, I wouldn't want mine out right now as the fields are so wet and it's very slippery, so I don't have an issue with this.

I am leaving as much in their morning nets as I can, bearing in mind I am limited with using a reasonable amount, and also that one of mine is laminitic which presents another issue. Both my boys, despite daily exercise, are getting a bit on the larger size and I worry that going into spring I may be faced with further issues, so I feel like I'm in a no win situation. Either way, I would end up overfeeding them if I gave a large enough net to last from 7am until 4-4.30pm and then enough to last them overnight.

 

[scats]

You lost me at there’s ’no Turnout at all’ and ‘they’ve been in since the start of October’.

I would be looking elsewhere.

 

[Umpy22]

I can relate to this, our yard has become busier and I also do my feeds and haynets even though I’m on 7 day full livery…the services they provide has started to reduce, again due to time. Same as you, great facilities etc but what is offered has reduced and corners have been cut to save money and time. We also get little winter turnout.

I haven’t much advice other than to look at alternatives? I don’t really want to move but sometimes these little things all add up until you get to breaking point and wonder why you are basically doing the work for them!

I just wanted to say I can share in your frustration! X

I'm sorry to hear you are in the same boat. It's such a shame as I love it where I am. Winter is the worst time to have horses, at all, regardless of the yard, and I think we all feel a bit more on edge at this time of the year.

I have started to look at alternative yards but really don't want to move if I don't have to. On the other hand, I want to ensure my boys are okay.

 

[Umpy22]

You lost me at there’s ’no Turnout at all’ and ‘they’ve been in since the start of October’.

I would be looking elsewhere.

It's far from ideal but I'm not in a great location either and there are very few yards nearby that offer part or full livery. I left a yard we'd been on for years as I relocated for work, sadly.

 

[Sail_away]

You could leave a big trickle net in, shires do a good soft small holed one. Particularly during the day I’d want my horses to have access to forage at all times. I think there’s studies showing ulcers occur more from daytime starvation than overnight, so I’d rather limit overnight forage if needed.
I’d be looking for somewhere else, though. I know it’s hard to find good yards, but year round turnout is necessary, other facilities are a bonus.

 

[Bobthecob15]

I'm sorry to hear you are in the same boat. It's such a shame as I love it where I am. Winter is the worst time to have horses, at all, regardless of the yard, and I think we all feel a bit more on edge at this time of the year.

I have started to look at alternative yards but really don't want to move if I don't have to. On the other hand, I want to ensure my boys are okay.

I know it’s so difficult, welfare should come ahead of facilities of course…but it’s not always so straightforward!! I’m sticking with mine for now, the weather should improve, grass will grow and they will be out a lot more from March. I am just going to keep my eyes open for something for next winter I think as a back up x

 

[PurBee]

It's far from ideal but I'm not in a great location either and there are very few yards nearby that offer part or full livery. I left a yard we'd been on for years as I relocated for work, sadly.

It might be worth joining facebook uk livery groups, there’s quite a lot of groups to join and bulk post on, posting your ideal location / needs for your 2 horses. There’s many yards on there.
Sometimes there’s even private horse land folks with more land than they need that have space for a few extra that reply on there. It’s worth a shot.

 

[webble]

Are there any decent DIY yards that you could move to and employ someone to do the jobs?

 

[smolmaus]

If staff are there till 11am, giving him a net at 11am would do him a few hours and he won't be left standing THAT long until you get there at 4:30. If they say 11am, try taking them at their word. Make them say "one morning net to last all day" if that's what they mean.

Would going full livery solve the problem though? If the issue is staff workload then surely if you asked to go on full livery they would have to say no, as they don't have capacity. If you offered to pay extra to have a lunch net put in, would they say yes? You shouldn't have to, because you are right, you are currently paying for several services you aren't using but if saying "time is money, correct, here is £2 for 90 seconds of your time to hang a net" solves the problem... I would be doing it.

(Would also be looking to get out)

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I'd be looking for another yard. No turnout is crap for horses.

 

[Equi]

Can you leave two nets each and say you want them both put in?

 

[Umpy22]

Are there any decent DIY yards that you could move to and employ someone to do the jobs?

I looked into this but the DIY yards close by are all full. A freelancer is cost prohibitive while I'm on 7 day livery. I'm also in a tricky location which doesn't help.

 

[Umpy22]

Can you leave two nets each and say you want them both put in?

I have tried this but it didn't make any difference in terms of lasting longer.

 

[Umpy22]

If staff are there till 11am, giving him a net at 11am would do him a few hours and he won't be left standing THAT long until you get there at 4:30. If they say 11am, try taking them at their word. Make them say "one morning net to last all day" if that's what they mean.

Would going full livery solve the problem though? If the issue is staff workload then surely if you asked to go on full livery they would have to say no, as they don't have capacity. If you offered to pay extra to have a lunch net put in, would they say yes? You shouldn't have to, because you are right, you are currently paying for several services you aren't using but if saying "time is money, correct, here is £2 for 90 seconds of your time to hang a net" solves the problem... I would be doing it.

(Would also be looking to get out)

They will only put one net in so the boys can't wait until 11am as they will stress waiting for their hay. I have offered to pay a nominal fee for an additional net to be put in for each and have been told, no, they don't have the time. I can't move to 7 day full sadly as my budget doesn't allow.

 

[Umpy22]

I'd be looking for another yard. No turnout is crap for horses.

It is. Wasn't like this last winter.

 

[AppyLover1996]

Rather than pop an extra haynet in for the morning, is it possible for you to pop a large haynet with smaller holes in when you go up in the afternoon? Hopefully with smaller holes and a larger net would mean that the forage would last through the night easily enough and also perhaps mean that they have some left over to munch on through the following day in addition to the net that they get given by the yard staff in the morning?

Personally no turnout is an absolute deal breaker for me and I'd be looking to move ASAP, but I also understand that finding a decent yard to livery at is like hen's teeth.....is there the possibility of going down the DIY route at your current yard and hiring in a freelancer for the morning tasks?

That way you could stick with popping two haynets in each stable for your horses in the morning and therefore wouldn't be worrying about lack of forage (having an ulcer prone horse I sympathise with the constant worry about not enough forage!), theoretically save some money (which can go towards said freelancer costs) by going down the DIY route and also relax a bit knowing that the freelancer would be following your instructions and therefore will minimise the risk of no forage

Or another idea which I would try would be to give them a massive net for overnight and instruct that the morning net isn't to be put in until 11am exactly - that way it would minimise the amount of time they would be without forage if the above option isn't viable.

 

[Umpy22]

You could leave a big trickle net in, shires do a good soft small holed one. Particularly during the day I’d want my horses to have access to forage at all times. I think there’s studies showing ulcers occur more from daytime starvation than overnight, so I’d rather limit overnight forage if needed.
I’d be looking for somewhere else, though. I know it’s hard to find good yards, but year round turnout is necessary, other facilities are a bonus.

They both have trickle nets but I can't overfeed, and they still manage to get through the nets quicker than I'd like. I've even doubled netted my laminitic boys nets. It's a tough one but you're right - I think I need to have a serious look around.

 

[Umpy22]

Rather than pop an extra haynet in for the morning, is it possible for you to pop a large haynet with smaller holes in when you go up in the afternoon? Hopefully with smaller holes and a larger net would mean that the forage would last through the night easily enough and also perhaps mean that they have some left over to munch on through the following day in addition to the net that they get given by the yard staff in the morning?

Personally no turnout is an absolute deal breaker for me and I'd be looking to move ASAP, but I also understand that finding a decent yard to livery at is like hen's teeth.....is there the possibility of going down the DIY route at your current yard and hiring in a freelancer for the morning tasks?

That way you could stick with popping two haynets in each stable for your horses in the morning and therefore wouldn't be worrying about lack of forage (having an ulcer prone horse I sympathise with the constant worry about not enough forage!), theoretically save some money (which can go towards said freelancer costs) by going down the DIY route and also relax a bit knowing that the freelancer would be following your instructions and therefore will minimise the risk of no forage

Or another idea which I would try would be to give them a massive net for overnight and instruct that the morning net isn't to be put in until 11am exactly - that way it would minimise the amount of time they would be without forage if the above option isn't viable.

Sadly, the yard I'm on doesn't do DIY or that could be an option. The local DIY yards, not that there are many are full.

They both have a small chaff feed and a munch of hay before exercise, and then get their night nets at around 8pm when I leave the yard. I have played around with the amounts and double netted too (I have to be careful as they are both a bit porky and one is metabolic), but, sadly, this still doesn't result in them having any left in the morning.

They would both stress if not fed their hay until 11am. Because of the yard set up (American style barn) they would see everyone getting nets and kick off.

 

[Umpy22]

It might be worth joining facebook uk livery groups, there’s quite a lot of groups to join and bulk post on, posting your ideal location / needs for your 2 horses. There’s many yards on there.
Sometimes there’s even private horse land folks with more land than they need that have space for a few extra that reply on there. It’s worth a shot.

Thank you!

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Rubbish situation @Umpy22.. feel for you. The no turnout along would have me looking elsewhere. I could keep my mare less than 5 minutes away (no winter turnout) but travel 30 minutes each way to a yard with turnout all year. Have you had a serious chat with the YO before you start looking elsewhere? Might make the situation awkward, so maybe scout the area first. Sounds more you could move to somewhere with more assisted livery.

 

[paddy555]

I think the issue is the yard has doubled in size gradually over the past 9 months, but the grazing hasn't increased. Last winter they were mainly out, just a few days in. It's also been very wet up here which hasn't helped. To be honest, I wouldn't want mine out right now as the fields are so wet and it's very slippery, so I don't have an issue with this.

I am leaving as much in their morning nets as I can, bearing in mind I am limited with using a reasonable amount, and also that one of mine is laminitic which presents another issue. Both my boys, despite daily exercise, are getting a bit on the larger size and I worry that going into spring I may be faced with further issues, so I feel like I'm in a no win situation. Either way, I would end up overfeeding them if I gave a large enough net to last from 7am until 4-4.30pm and then enough to last them overnight.

it seems from this you could be trying to give them more and more hay because they are standing in all day partly to keep them happy and to keep the gut moving (ulcers) As a result they are getting fatter and you are going to end up with a fat problem going into spring,

I can't see you can do much about the grazing, or the staffing situation or what per your contract you signed up to unless you move or renegotiate your contract,

However you can do something about the hay and fatness problems which may be better than nothing.

I would weigh/weight tape your horses and decide on what weight you are going to feed, possibly at the lower end as they are well covered. Then stick to that weight making it up of both soaked hay and chaff. If you are feeding hard feed to get a supplement and salt in pad it out with suitable chaff . It will extend the eating time and fill their bellies more. I understand the point of keeping them happy but it is hard work getting an overweight horse to shed the pounds especially come the spring.


In the morning give their trickle/double netted etc net but leave a bin of chaff to make up the weight. I've no doubt they will leave it for a while but if they are hungry they will start eating it later in the day.
If you ask about chaff and suitable bins then I'm sure someone more experienced in chaff will come along with ideas.

 

[AppyLover1996]

Sadly, the yard I'm on doesn't do DIY or that could be an option. The local DIY yards, not that there are many are full.

They both have a small chaff feed and a munch of hay before exercise, and then get their night nets at around 8pm when I leave the yard. I have played around with the amounts and double netted too (I have to be careful as they are both a bit porky and one is metabolic), but, sadly, this still doesn't result in them having any left in the morning.

They would both stress if not fed their hay until 11am. Because of the yard set up (American style barn) they would see everyone getting nets and kick off.

Ah bummer - that's such a shame that they don't offer DIY - it seems like a good solution to your conundrum.....

Oh I see - the set up of the yard doesn't help does it.....

Is there anyone in the family who could possibly pop up in the morning for you and add an extra haynet in for your each of your boys?

I would say it is time for a serious chat to your yard owner and explain firmly and politely about the severe risk of ulcers to your lad and try and see if there is a common ground that you guys can come to an agreement on (assuming that this hasn't been tried already? )

 

[Umpy22]

Rubbish situation @Umpy22.. feel for you. The no turnout along would have me looking elsewhere. I could keep my mare less than 5 minutes away (no winter turnout) but travel 30 minutes each way to a yard with turnout all year. Have you had a serious chat with the YO before you start looking elsewhere? Might make the situation awkward, so maybe scout the area first. Sounds more you could move to somewhere with more assisted livery.

Yes, I have had a chat and it was quite fraught, despite me saying I would do whatever I could to help make life easier and that I was already doing so. There aren't many yards nearby, not even within a 45 minute radius, and the local ones with DIY where I could possibly pay for a freelancer, are full.

 

[Umpy22]

it seems from this you could be trying to give them more and more hay because they are standing in all day partly to keep them happy and to keep the gut moving (ulcers) As a result they are getting fatter and you are going to end up with a fat problem going into spring,

I can't see you can do much about the grazing, or the staffing situation or what per your contract you signed up to unless you move or renegotiate your contract,

However you can do something about the hay and fatness problems which may be better than nothing.

I would weigh/weight tape your horses and decide on what weight you are going to feed, possibly at the lower end as they are well covered. Then stick to that weight making it up of both soaked hay and chaff. If you are feeding hard feed to get a supplement and salt in pad it out with suitable chaff . It will extend the eating time and fill their bellies more. I understand the point of keeping them happy but it is hard work getting an overweight horse to shed the pounds especially come the spring.


In the morning give their trickle/double netted etc net but leave a bin of chaff to make up the weight. I've no doubt they will leave it for a while but if they are hungry they will start eating it later in the day.
If you ask about chaff and suitable bins then I'm sure someone more experienced in chaff will come along with ideas.

I'm already doing this. One of the boys is being fed 1.5% of his bodyweight at the moment, the other is on 2%, and they have huge tug trugs full of zero chaff, so they have something to munch on to keep their guts moving, both at night and during the day.

 

[Umpy22]

Ah bummer - that's such a shame that they don't offer DIY - it seems like a good solution to your conundrum.....

Oh I see - the set up of the yard doesn't help does it.....

Is there anyone in the family who could possibly pop up in the morning for you and add an extra haynet in for your each of your boys?

I would say it is time for a serious chat to your yard owner and explain firmly and politely about the severe risk of ulcers to your lad and try and see if there is a common ground that you guys can come to an agreement on (assuming that this hasn't been tried already? )

I have had a chat and it didn't go well. There was no meeting in the middle. I think the YO is really stressed out and I get it - winter isn't fun at all but this isn't fun for me, or the boys either.

I've relocated for work so no family nearby and only one fried so far, through work, who isn't horsey and works the same hours as me.

 

[Chianti]

Would staff put in big tubs of straw chaff when they feed in the morning? When they've finished the hay nets they then have something to nibble on. If you're bedding allows, and the nets are safe to do so, I would put the hay nets on the floor. I think this slows down the consumption rate. I would look to move asap. No turn out for months is not good for horses - friends, forage and freedom. Livery is such a nightmare- I have spent so much of my life paying for a service that's not delivered. It's like going to a restaurant, paying, but having to do the washing up before you're allowed to leave. 40 horses being managed by four staff well, seems impossible. How are they going to manage brining in when they start turning out again?

 

[Umpy22]

Would staff put in big tubs of straw chaff when they feed in the morning? When they've finished the hay nets they then have something to nibble on. If you're bedding allows, and the nets are safe to do so, I would put the hay nets on the floor. I think this slows down the consumption rate. I would look to move asap. No turn out for months is not good for horses - friends, forage and freedom. Livery is such a nightmare- I have spent so much of my life paying for a service that's not delivered. It's like going to a restaurant, paying, but having to do the washing up before you're allowed to leave. 40 horses being managed by four staff well, seems impossible. How are they going to manage brining in when they start turning out again?

They both have big trugs of zero chaff, morning and night, so already doing this. I would love to use hay pillows but both are shod.

I haven't even thought ahead to how they will manage bring-ins - just trying to get to the point where they actually go out again, hopefully before I lose my mind.

It's such a shame as it's a beautiful yard with so many wonderful people.