Livery Yard: No worming programme

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Kittyk

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Hi,

I moved to a new yard last summer, I am on full livery and on viewing the yard I asked if there was a worming programme. Told they do worm counts and worm accordingly. In my rush to move I thought well ok some people do this let me see how it goes.

Since moving last year I am not aware of anyone worming or any worm counts being taken, that is not to say other liveries haven't wormed and I wouldn't expect them to run it passed me if they did. I have my own horse on a worming programme but a) would you be concerned? and b) do some people chose not to worm?

We have another horse on another yard and they are wormed as part of a programme. Over the last 8/10 years I have never known people not to worm a healthy horse. I have always been on yards where there is programme or all horses are wormed at the same time organised by the yard.

Just interested to hear peoples opinions really.
 
our yard has a worming programme

but i also worm count and tapeworm too

worm count twice a year and i will do a tapeworm test once a year too.... (only shows on bloods)


if the horse dosent need worming a count and tapeworm would show this - i know its a more expensive way to do it but they dont need chemicals then dont give them it ? :)


mine is clear from worms (count) and last week tapeworm negative :)
 
Well it depends on when you moved to the yard? Worm egg counts are only reliable in "grazing" months march - nov. Could the yard have done a worm egg count on you horse without telling you? - you just need a small amount of faeces to test. If not maybe talk to your YO/YM to see what is happening.
I think worm egg counts are very valuble prevents horses getting chemicals/ wormers un-necessarily, reduces risk of worm resistance, saves money! But I would always recommend worming with combi wormer over winter.
 
most DIY's around here just leave you too it and let you do your own

An old yard of mine wormed upon bringing in for the winter and turning out for the summer so approx twice a year and never had any problems

Some people worm every 6 weeks but i think surely this cant be right?

I worm according to worm counts personally

I would do what you normally do x
 
2horsesnomoney said:
Could the yard have done a worm egg count on you horse without telling you? - you just need a small amount of faeces to test. If not maybe talk to your YO/YM to see what is happening.
Click to expand...

I was on a yard that just worm counted and didn't tell the liveries. If fact not even if you asked.

They then just wormed everything the same regardless of results with very aggressive and unnecessary wormers so it was all a bit pointless. They only told you they had wormed so you knew not to turn your horse out

Having said that at your yard even if they have worm counted if you have been there since the summer I would have expected them to worm for tapeworm in autumn.

You also need to look at number of horses, size of fields, poo picking and cross grazing as risk factors as that will influence your worming programme.
 
I am on a full livery yard where we are part of the intellegent worming programme. Imight not have picked it myself but thats what we are on. Seems to work quite well so far and TBH if our horses are clear we rarely hear about when the worm count was done. If the count suggests our horses need wormed the YO lets us know arranges the worming and then bills us for the wormer used at the end of the month. I would be asking when the next worm count is due?
 
Rather than leave up to the yard to decide I'd want to understand my own horses requirements were being met.
I'd worm count and do tape worm/ encysted once a year yourself or if you prefer use a more routine worming programme that you are used to (however I believe there is evidence that routine worming is contributing to worms becoming resistant to wormer so think carefully before going down this road)
 
We have the poos picked up each and every day.
Worm counts every 3 months and wormed if neccesary.
Wormed each year with a wormer for encysted small red worms and tape worms in November. (Encysted small red worms do not show up in a worm count only a blood test)
 
I moved in June and they def wouldn't have carried out a worm count without telling me.

The fields are regularly harrowed (but not poo picked) but over this winter the ground has been too wet to do so.

I am going to be shot down for this but as a full livery I have always been led by the yard with regards to worming. This is the first yard I have sorted it out independantly. As time has passed, I have grown more conscious that a worm count hasn't been done and the majority of the yard might not have been wormed. Will speak to YO/YM.

Thanks for the replies, interesting to hear what other yards/people do.
 
* To add I am worming my own horse using a worming programme recommended by my vet (last wormed late Oct) and was about to worm again which prompted me thinking about doing a worm count etc.
 
Worm counts are the best way to test for most worms through the year but they don't reliably pick up either tapeworm (although your vet can blood test for that) or the dangerous encysted stage of small red worm for which nothing is available in terms of testing So must be wormed for once a year in the winter, however good the poo picking and worm counting is. These two types of worms are responsible for a lot of fatal colic cases and tapeworm is on the rise.

So a yard which solely uses worm counts is not protecting clients horses responsibly(and neither is one that uses workers routinely where worm counts would have been fine. Both are needed. If you worm count and blood test the only vital wormer dose is the equest type one in winter: everything else can be based on the results. If you just worm count then you need to tapeworm as well.
 
As a livery yard owner myself - I would be worried about any horse that hadn't been on some kind of worming programme as potentially there is a risk of contamination. Worms need the host (horse) to complete their lifecycle so having a worming programme is more important than poo picking.

Harrowing has nothing to do with worming, by the way. It's merely done to turnover the top layer of soil to expose the small shoots coming through in Spring to encourage better grass growth. In fact, harrowing where poo has not been picked up spreads the potential worms around the feild (and before someone says they die off in the summer if poo is broken open - we rearly get high enough temperatures for this to occur!) thus increasing the risk of contamination.

You need to speak to them regarding this and sort it out for the sake of your horse.
 
Hi Tonks,

Yes, that is what I was told, when harrowing the worms die after the poo breaks up. In fact I have been told this on several yards!

This is exactly what I wanted to know what risk is there to my horse even though she might be on a programme. This is more a private yard than a livery of which there are only 4 most of the horses are the YO. I am happy to disagree with her on the subject/practise of worming however, if it impacts the health of my own horse regardless of steps I might be taking it needs to be addressed.

Will take it up with her.
 
A lot of people say this about harrowing and the worm burden but its not strictly accurate.

If harrowed, you would need a) high temperatures (freezing doesn't kill the worm) but also b) to leave the feild to rest for at least 3 months without any other horses being turned out on the pasture - to break the life cycle to ensure that the pasture is worm free. That's why good managers and farmers always rest their land - especially in the winter to avoid poaching which would then encourage weeds/ragwort, etc. But, this 6 month break helps breaks the worm life cycle to reduce further contaminantion amongst their livestock.

Certain worms last longer in the ground however, but you'd need to ask a botonist/biologist about exact length of time needed for specific worms.

If your yard has a poo picking programme then they are harrowing for the benefit of the land to produce a good sword for that year. But if they are poo picking they probably have a good worming programme, in the first place. However, if they are harrowing and they're not poo picking, no worming programme and no resting period longer than 3 months - leave!!

As others have said worm counts don't give you the whole picture and it is of upmost importannce that your horse is wormed to prevent the encysted small reworm from increasing and also migrating.

To the best of my knowledge their migration period occurs when we have our first real drop in temperature from the end of Nov/begining of Dec but I'm not sure what the exact temperature is. So, this is when we need to worm for this particularly horrible little creature. If you wormed to target this worm outside of this period, I think it's pretty useless as they've migrated.

I have seen first hand the damage these worms can do - a new livery client had just moved her little pony to us whose previous owners had never really bothered to a) worm and b) poo pick. She had about 30 new forest all in one field. Apparently she used to run a livery herself. I didn't really want to know anymore! Needless to say the horse died a pretty horrible death.

I personally do have a worming programme for a number of good reasons which are probably different than a private/non commercial situation - if clients really do object then that's fine, but they have to show me the evidence.
 
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