LIVERY YARD OWNERS - ANSWERS ON A POSTCARD PLEASE

I think what you're paying in livery costs are fair.

What you're paying for the 'extras' isnt. If grazing inhand was essential because of, say, an injury, then £20 would STILL be a rip off.


what you need to do is look at other yards and ask what their charges are. what they would charge you for competing, what they would charge for lessons.
 
What level is your mare competing at? Do you know how and are able to lunge? How would you feel about riding a different horse? Do you drive your own lorry? Will you ever compete your mare at this or higher levels? Just want some more info before I reply if that is ok?
 
As others have said. Tell them you can't afford this sort of money, and ask for a breakdown so you can work out what you can afford and when. Do it in a straight forward manner. This is business. This is your money. I earn well, but I would not want to be paying £900 a month for one horse without knowing exactly what the money was going on; I would aslo want to know what I would have to budget for each month.

Just out of interest, I know you say your horse is going well here, and I understand your situation regarding needing help, but there are other places that can and will provide the same sort of services.

Hugs hunny.
 
sorry i have worked on alot of yards including eventing,dressage,riding schools basic livery.
Of course they will charge you for use of riders instructors time at comps thats common practice.
If the YO grazing is not up to scratch and your been charged for them taking your horse else where,thats not on.If your horse has been off due to injury therfore is been grazed inhand due to that then yes you will be charged for staffs time off the yard when yard dutied could be done.

1st rule of horsemanship,dont ever think of your YO/YM as ''freinds'' they are out to make money not gain pals.Although its a common mistake many make.
 
£900 a month?!!!!!!!! Im sorry, i almost passed out when i read that.
But of course, im reading this from the borders where our full livery incl feeding is only about 65-70 quid a week.
Bloody hell, I would move yards. I understand your situation is difficult ,but poss yard realise that too and are exploiting it.
 
Im sorry but your are totally insane. Full livery means full not bits here and there and stupid little extras on top-I would have none of it and quite frankly would not pay that for a livery even if I could afford it- no matter how good the horse etc. I think they are oput for your money and that is it. Horses are there to enjoy not be scammed over.
 
I really sympathise as I've been in the same situation as you through being a 'good' client. I paid on time etc and I started getting the extras added and having the additional bits done without being asked if I wanted them done (but still getting charged for them). So, I voted with my feet.

My horses are my relaxation, there is enough elsewhere in my life to give stress (!) so I don't need it in my horse life as well. To challenge and ask for details of what my livery actually included and why was I being charged for extra (and what constituted an extra) would have involved conflict and it was easier to just go somewhere else.

I kept my ned in competition livery while I was pregnant and had nothing like the issues, or charges, that you have had. He was kept exceptionally well, ridden daily, always looked immaculate and my tack was cleaned daily/saddle clothes washed etc. I paid a set sum each month and knew what extras were involved. Things like helping with farrier and vet were all included in my normal charges and I just paid entry fees and registration fees. I wasn't charged for competition time or transport but then I was providing a ned that was able to compete at a higher level in affilated BD - something the trainer didn't have and I gave her an opportunity to get 'her name about'. So I guess we both did each other a favour. However, we treated the deal as a business arrangement and discussed things in advance so there were no nasty surprises.

So often with horses things are done in a very casual manner and we trust other people too much. Remember you are a client and should be treated as one. Unfortunately I think you have evolved into some sort of cash cow for them and they are milking you for all they are worth. Perhaps they are jealous but I'd suggest it is less because of your horse's ability and more because of your ability to pay such extortionate sums each month.

Please look at other yards. There are many people out there who can help you. Try and do what I did and find someone who will appreciate your horse and opportunity that she will give them.

Good luck!!
 
TBH you need to tread very carefully when you have money, some horse people will try and squeeze every penny from you. You clearly feel upset over this issue and tbh I would start looking elsewhere. Most yards would bite the arm off someone able to pay tis sort of money in the current economic climate. I would talk it through or move.
 
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TBH you need to tread very carefully when you have money, some horse people will try and squeeze every penny from you. You clearly feel upset over this issue and tbh I would start looking elsewhere. Most yards would bite the arm off someone able to pay tis sort of money in the current economic climate. I would talk it through or move.

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Totally agree.

Sounds like they think they can push you a little bit further each month, seeing what they can get away with. £20 to graze in hand is ridiculous! If my horse was injured and needed to be walked in-hand, I would expect the grooms to do it - that is the point of being on full livery. And they have also saved the time it takes to rug up/to and then bring in/change rugs etc so 2x10 mins walks in hand are not unreasonable.

And quite frankly, I am not sure how you can say that you like this yard if people are making comments about your inability to drive to the yard and belittling you.
 
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What level is your mare competing at? Do you know how and are able to lunge? How would you feel about riding a different horse? Do you drive your own lorry? Will you ever compete your mare at this or higher levels? Just want some more info before I reply if that is ok?

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mare is 6 yo working medium at home, qualified novice regionals. I can lunge yes to a high standard, though i get a lil dizzy lol. I have ridden other horses, but i still have the same problems, i have problems with the nerves in my leg and hip and accute lose of feeling and sensation, it affects my balance etc. though i prefer my horse, i have had her 4 years and know her inside out. I own my own lorry, my mother drives it, i can barely drive my own car. The mare is capable of competing PSG and beyound. And i would love to compete my own mare. Im trainging my body to work again whikst someone trains my horse.
 
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TBH you need to tread very carefully when you have money, some horse people will try and squeeze every penny from you. You clearly feel upset over this issue and tbh I would start looking elsewhere. Most yards would bite the arm off someone able to pay tis sort of money in the current economic climate. I would talk it through or move.

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Totally agree.

Sounds like they think they can push you a little bit further each month, seeing what they can get away with. £20 to graze in hand is ridiculous! If my horse was injured and needed to be walked in-hand, I would expect the grooms to do it - that is the point of being on full livery. And they have also saved the time it takes to rug up/to and then bring in/change rugs etc so 2x10 mins walks in hand are not unreasonable.

And quite frankly, I am not sure how you can say that you like this yard if people are making comments about your inability to drive to the yard and belittling you.

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because i have a thick skin and see how happy my neddy is here. I have spoken to the YO and she has agreed not to charge me for YM time when competing etc and to run every extra passed me first before i agree to them. I am also have a list of the past 6 months costings of what i have paid for so i can scrutinise it. But i am not happy. I am wondering where the focus of this yard is headed and feel maybe in due course when i finish uni and have time, a move might be on the cards.
 
If your mare is talented enough to compete at PSG level why don't you try and find someone who would be honoured to ride her? In my previous reply I mentioned doing something similar with my ned. I am sure there must be someone close to you who be happy to have your horse and help you get back riding again AND be sympathetic to your particular medical situation.

See how the new arrangement works but keep a close eye on things and query everything extra otherwise you'll find yourself back where you started. It also gives you time to get out and about and see what/who else is out there. Start watching classes and the warm up and see if there is someone riding who you admire. Keep watching this forum, check out the competition rider section and view the BD forum too. You may hear of someone who can make your horse happier than she is now, without breaking either your bank account or your spirit! If the direction of your current yard is changing too, this adds further reason to check out other options.

Feel free to PM if you want to discuss this further.......been in a similar situation to you only to be rescued by a fab competition livery option.
 
i was thinking the arrow ec does lots for para riders, maybe that would be a good bet...its just so far away!!

shes is competing novice at the moment but she will make PSG, she just needs to build her muscle and attention span lol and listen without pre-empting what im asking her.

I have bought a diary and in it i am writing down every single expenditure i am going to make, and have made in that yard in the past. I will write down all my extras, the days i got them and the quoted price, then i can look at the bill and cross reference it. looking for inconsistencies, but i think ill start looking for somewhere else. My mother was talking of renting a yard and hiring a groom to do jobs etc and have a trainer coming in etc. But i was also thinking along the route of a young rider etc.
 
Thanks for answering those.

Firstly, if I was paying training / comp livery I would expect the person riding to be competent enough to compete novice / work medium at home without having lessons to do so. One of the things you pay for is their skill as a rider. The difference between full livery with exercise and training / comp is what the rider is doing, and they shouldn't IMO need lessons to school at medium. If I were you I would cut back on that area, if the person wants lessons for their own improvement, which this sounds like, I would not be paying for their time, the instructor or the arena. I used to have lessons for my own improvement on a couple of livery horses. I would never have dreamed of charging them over the regular exercise cost (which was part of the set livery fee) as I was getting such benefit from it. Of course, if you asked her to get these lessons that is different, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Before your own lessons, you could lunge your mare, rather than them ride it. I would then see it as perfectly reasonable to then have the training fee cut back if they are only riding it 50% of the time they originally were. Another option would be to have your lesson price cut. There is NO good reason I can think of that would mean a livery on a higher level of service should be charged more. In fact, it was the reverse at our yard, those on full got a discount. To me, this seems to be the biggest pee take. Lessons should be a clear cut area, I cannot see how they can charge you 50% more than another client for the same thing, same instructor.

One route I would seriously consider is to look for a competition rider. There are scores of talented individuals out there who just cannot afford the calibre of horse they need to compete to the levels they want, or people who have one horse, but want the exposure to other levels, get a name for themselves etc. This is especially true of younger people. Unless you are somewhere very remote, I would sayyiur chances of someone who can ride and compete medium are very good. Depending on the circumstances, you might pay for dome things (lorry costs etc) but I would not expect to pay them for their time with this sort of arrangement. When I did it, the owner covered my entry fees, transport, extra tack etc. My time was free, and for the most part, any money we won she told me to keep, she got the rosettes etc for her tack room.

Another option to consider from your own perspective would be to have lessons with someone who specializes in rehabillitation, on your own horse or theirs. Having come back from an injury myself, I noticed a huge difference between my regular, and very good, instructor, and someone who had studied physio and kinesiology. Just a thought for you.

Either way, I think you need to do something to stop them walking all over you. The fee for grazing in hand is absurd. Paying for bacon butties is unnecessary. You sound like a lovely person who these people are squeezing far beyond what is fairand reasonable. Good luck.
 
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Thanks for answering those.

Firstly, if I was paying training / comp livery I would expect the person riding to be competent enough to compete novice / work medium at home without having lessons to do so. One of the things you pay for is their skill as a rider. The difference between full livery with exercise and training / comp is what the rider is doing, and they shouldn't IMO need lessons to school at medium. If I were you I would cut back on that area, if the person wants lessons for their own improvement, which this sounds like, I would not be paying for their time, the instructor or the arena. I used to have lessons for my own improvement on a couple of livery horses. I would never have dreamed of charging them over the regular exercise cost (which was part of the set livery fee) as I was getting such benefit from it. Of course, if you asked her to get these lessons that is different, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

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I am now refusing to fund the YM training, i have said she is more then welcome to use my horse for HER lessons, but i do not expect to see the cost on MY bill. I have also stated that even if she had the lessons on her own horse, what she learns can still be transferred onto my horse.

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Before your own lessons, you could lunge your mare, rather than them ride it. I would then see it as perfectly reasonable to then have the training fee cut back if they are only riding it 50% of the time they originally were. Another option would be to have your lesson price cut. There is NO good reason I can think of that would mean a livery on a higher level of service should be charged more. In fact, it was the reverse at our yard, those on full got a discount. To me, this seems to be the biggest pee take. Lessons should be a clear cut area, I cannot see how they can charge you 50% more than another client for the same thing, same instructor.

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This is an idea, but the reason YM rides the horse is cause i am no where near able to help support the mare and train her to tha standard the YM is...yet! its really frustrating! before my accident i was training and riding at a higher level than the YM! grrr lol but thats life i suppose. I agree about the price and have said i wont be buying in any more lessons until they are sorted out. She assured me it was a billing error and will be looked at ASAP, so im hoping on a reduction on next months bill or a refund
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One route I would seriously consider is to look for a competition rider. There are scores of talented individuals out there who just cannot afford the calibre of horse they need to compete to the levels they want, or people who have one horse, but want the exposure to other levels, get a name for themselves etc. This is especially true of younger people. Unless you are somewhere very remote, I would sayyiur chances of someone who can ride and compete medium are very good. Depending on the circumstances, you might pay for dome things (lorry costs etc) but I would not expect to pay them for their time with this sort of arrangement. When I did it, the owner covered my entry fees, transport, extra tack etc. My time was free, and for the most part, any money we won she told me to keep, she got the rosettes etc for her tack room.

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I have my own lorry so i should be able to reduce that cost significantly. i was thinking this, there are so many talented and hungry riders out there. On the quite im observing the YM and her attitude...my horse is so talented, but so green, she needs a bit of TLC in the arena (bless her lil cotton sock) but she can really turn it on for the right person...maybe a BD Young Rider etc might be a good way to go? im at oldencraig on thursday so im hoping to look out for some new talent. I liked the look of daniel greenwood but i dont know where he is based etc. Robbie carpenter was quite interested in my horse but i wasnt conviced by his methods and thought they wouldnt suit my animal.

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Another option to consider from your own perspective would be to have lessons with someone who specializes in rehabillitation, on your own horse or theirs. Having come back from an injury myself, I noticed a huge difference between my regular, and very good, instructor, and someone who had studied physio and kinesiology. Just a thought for you.

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I was thinking this also, i have physio, reiki and hydrotherapy anyway as well as massage therapy etc. The arrow does lessons dont they? as does oldencraig, but my friend emma kent is based at the arrow and she is a BD Para GB team rider (grade v i think though im not sure) so i might enquire there.

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Either way, I think you need to do something to stop them walking all over you. The fee for grazing in hand is absurd. Paying for bacon butties is unnecessary. You sound like a lovely person who these people are squeezing far beyond what is fairand reasonable. Good luck.

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Sounds like you are getting there! Fantastic! Hopefully this will be a wake up call to them and things will settle down. I am not the right person to advise on who would be a good rider/ whose style would be good etc - you might want to see if Hils and KT (users on here) can help you with that - KT rides (cannot recall what she is up to right now, but with her old mare she was at high levels), and Hils (her mother) is a judge. They are not in your neck of the woods, but they may be able to help. I am sure there are others around and about, but I have met Hils and kt!
 
I'm sorry you're being seriously ripped off.
Event yards charge £20 a day plus expenses for riding the horse (usually another £20), share of transport costs and entry fees.
Of course you have your shoeing.vet costs to pay for but otherwise the horse gets to the event perfectly groomed/plaited etc and is cared for by a groom all day.
I'm afraid your YO sounds like the prospect of money making has gone to her head, and whether you like it there or not, I'd be moving.
You sound a good livery who is being taken advantage of...
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