Livery yard price increases

HGA-12 said:
The yard must be making no money to charge that little, don't see how they can keep their heads above water.

hay at least £ 7 per week
1 bale shavings £ 9 approx
stable per night
turned out for you £ 1 minimum per day
evening bring in £ 1 minimum per day
schools plus lighting £ 10 per hour per time winter
schools £ 6 per day summer
wear and tear to jumps god knows
lighting in stable and tack room £ 3 per night approx
then there is water - leveling arenas - repair to fencing
staff wages
any tea or coffee
council taxes
insurance

Sorry they are running the yard at a loss
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For a start, it is a small yard of 6 horses 3 of which the YO owns, there is no staff just the Yo.
No tea or coffe facilities,
Your prices are stupidly high for most things!
We are on straw only but shavings round here are £6.50 a bale if bought in bulk, £7.50 if bought in individual bales, hemp is £5.50
The school lights don't cost much as they are on for probably a max of 30 mins a day since most people ride in the day and there are only 3 ridden horses on the yard.
School is old fashioned sand that only seems to need levelling about once a week.
Land and houses are cheap round here!
Whilst I doubt she makes much money, she is making money from it.
The going rate round here is £40 to £60 a week for part livery. Full livery in the area is £65 to £100 generally and tbh the yards charging around £70 tend to be the ones with decent winter turnout!
 
Possum; don't take comments heart, it just depends which side of the fence you're on. What makes the forum great is that we have lots of people with varying experiences. Of course yard owners will be justifying their costs.

I understand its a worry when costs go up - I am the same. When I used to be on part it increased once in five years from 85-90 a week, it wasn't easy to find the additional money but it was necessary. I did not begrudge YO at all as she works really hard and provides a fab facilities.

I guess people are trying to say look at what you get - in most cases very good value for money. I always thought I had a fab deal - just over £10 a day for full care, t/o,b/i, rug changes, muck out, skip out, feed and bedding, use of facilities. It costs me £7 a day when my dog goes in kennels - work and costs must be much less.
My horse is now at home and I bet my costs aren't that much less than part livery - feed and bedding delivered, hay in paddocks in winter as not enough grass, muck heap removal, general maintenance (hard standing been ruined by muck heap removal, now recited muck heap but this will need to be rectified in spring - not the farmers fault), in spring will pay for winter paddocks to be harrowed, rolled, reseeded.
What I'm saying is look on the bright side, focus on what you get for the money - won't make it easier to find but may make you feel,better about it! :)
 
Boulty, the time warp isn't 10 years - more like at least 25!

I was charging the bog average for DIY in NW Surrey of £21 per week for stable, storage & turnout (24/7 or in half time, whatever the owner wanted to do really).
This was in 1990 - working out at £3 per 24 hours.

NOW WE ARE IN 2015 - 25 years on - and rates for the same area for total DIY are now approx £25 per week!!
Most other yards with good fencing, stables & hacking were charging the same then for DIY if not more around that time.
Grass livery was about £14 per week with a stable at £1.50 per night if required. (I know, as still got old yard account books).
 
Our diy went up by £10 a month a 10% increase! I don't think that is unreasonable when you are talking such relatively small amounts in the first instance. Essentially if the yard is full at that price it isn't over priced... I never understand why people get up I arms about prices/compare them to what they pay when prices for land/hay etc will vary wildly over the country!
 
ester said:
Our diy went up by £10 a month a 10% increase! I don't think that is unreasonable when you are talking such relatively small amounts in the first instance. Essentially if the yard is full at that price it isn't over priced... I never understand why people get up I arms about prices/compare them to what they pay when prices for land/hay etc will vary wildly over the country!
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This, £10 a month is no more than going out for a curry :)
 
Possum said:
Sorry, I phrased that badly. Of course I don't have any knowledge of my YO's finances, (although the general impression they give suggests that they do rather well, I accept that this is neither here nor there). I also realise that is is a free market, and I am completely free to take my horses and go elsewhere.

What I don't understand is why having a minor moan about having to suddenly find an extra £40 a month (not a small amount of money really, although its easy to talk about 'only a few pounds a week), when already I was paying the 'going rate' for the services I use, is so terrible.
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You are right in that you can vote with your feet and this is what I would do rather than begrudge your YO an increase on livery, it will just make you resentful and if you start complain to others on the yard it may cause unrest. To my clients, I will also appear to be doing very well financially, but that's because we have another very successful business totally unrelated to horses that pays for everything. Don't assume your YO is profiting from liveries, I can assure you it's very unlikely! Most of us do it because we enjoy the company and its rewarding to know you are helping to fund someone else's hobby!
 
Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but….

I still can't believe that people expect a weeks DiY livery for less than the cost of a cheap B&B for one night. No wonder yards overstock their land and facilities, as this is the only way to break even, let alone make a profit.
 
Has anyone read the book 'Running Stables as a Business' It was part of the compulsory reading for my BHSI Stable Manager.

In the first paragraph the author remarks that Horse people are the worst business (wo)men!

Many years later when studying for my business degree it clearly advised that small increments several times each year were better than a price hike every five years.

In the 70's I paid 10/- a week for basic 24/7 grazing for my pony, a water trough and a rail to tie up to. In 1975 I bought my first horse and kept it at full livery at £25 per week. Everything included - Mucking out, grooming, Feed & Hay, Exercise, Tack cleaned and tacked up ready for you to ride, horse taken off you on return.

Just done some maths and if those fees had gone up 10% every year the current rate would be

Grazing £36.34 per week excluding VAT (wasn't around in 197)

Full Livery £51.70 per week excluding VAT.
 
conniegirl said:
For a start, it is a small yard of 6 horses 3 of which the YO owns, there is no staff just the Yo.
No tea or coffe facilities,
Your prices are stupidly high for most things!
We are on straw only but shavings round here are £6.50 a bale if bought in bulk, £7.50 if bought in individual bales, hemp is £5.50
The school lights don't cost much as they are on for probably a max of 30 mins a day since most people ride in the day and there are only 3 ridden horses on the yard.
School is old fashioned sand that only seems to need levelling about once a week.
Land and houses are cheap round here!
Whilst I doubt she makes much money, she is making money from it.
The going rate round here is £40 to £60 a week for part livery. Full livery in the area is £65 to £100 generally and tbh the yards charging around £70 tend to be the ones with decent winter turnout!
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Stupidly high ??? omg try running a yard and pay the bills then you will get the reality of running a yard and the cost of water / electric maintenance / insurance etc.

Since I am in a better position to give the cost of the items listed I fail to see how you can slate the cost of the aforementioned when you have obviously never owner / run a yard.

Do you know the wattage of the lights??? Ours are 400 watts each light bulb.


Sorry but if you have never run a yard pr owned one you will not have a clue at the cost.
 
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Right lets dissect it down that you mentioned my costs

hay at least £ 7 per week

:that works out at less than 2 bales a week where I am from: unless you starve the horse


1 bale shavings £ 9 approx
: that is the cost of the average bale of shavings which is what I based my cost on as you did not mention straw:


stable per night : you have to pay the rent on the stable for each night :

turned out for you £ 1 minimum per day : average extra for asking Y/O to do this :
evening bring in £ 1 minimum per day ditto
schools plus lighting £ 10 per hour per time winter : that is the cost of high watts lights:


wear and tear to jumps god knows : these need repairing or replacing :

lighting in stable and tack room £ 3 per night approx : unless you work in the dark:

then there is water - leveling arenas - repair to fencing all these come out of the income you know


council taxes : still need to be payed for :within the owners rates:
insurance : needs to be payed for:

so I fail to see what you class as high
 
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I left my full livery yard 3 years ago when the owner hiked the prices up £40 a month to £400 a month - her grass livery is £40 a week and DIY is £48 a week which is way above the average of £30 a week DIY and £15-25 for grass livery - as much as I loved the place the prices got silly so I moved to DIY where I pay £20 a week - but its pure DIY, the farmer does nothing but its a 10 min walk from my house and I have gotten used to doing it all myself to the point I would not go back to full livery now.
 
HGA-12

What sort of lights are you running, even with UK prices you wouldn't pay that sort of figure for general run of the mill lighting - a 100w bulb will cost around around 1p an hour to run.
Same with the arena, how many bulbs are you running.

If you have fluorescent lights in the arena then it wouldn't cost much to run
 
I never understand these threads, either pay what the YO charges or move if you're so sure you can get a better deal elsewhere.

FWIW H is on grass livery and I pay £190 a month, so personally most of the grass livery prices quoted seem stupidly cheap to me!
 
Tnavas said:
HGA-12

What sort of lights are you running, even with UK prices you wouldn't pay that sort of figure for general run of the mill lighting - a 100w bulb will cost around around 1p an hour to run.
Same with the arena, how many bulbs are you running.

If you have fluorescent lights in the arena then it wouldn't cost much to run
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As I stated in an early post
Do you know the wattage of the lights??? Ours are 400 watts each light bulb.
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We have 6x 400 watts each high brightness bulbs in one school arena and similar in the other school

Must say a £10 increase seems a lot per week, our increment is £2 per year per week we are lower than yards around us and liveries get a months notice of increase which is always in January.

I am with you Fuzz either put up or shut up
 
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Tnavas said:
HGA-12

What sort of lights are you running, even with UK prices you wouldn't pay that sort of figure for general run of the mill lighting - a 100w bulb will cost around around 1p an hour to run.
Same with the arena, how many bulbs are you running.

If you have fluorescent lights in the arena then it wouldn't cost much to run
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Would cost even less if clients didn't leave them on all the time! I have to constantly turn lights off after my clients have either gone home or gone out riding. P****s me right off but guess that's a whole other subject! When we built our brand new, purpose built block (which cost thousands btw) we specifically made sure every stable had its own light and switch at considerable extra cost to ensure that lights could be turned off when not needed. Mmmmmm not working too well so far! Fwiw as others have said, £10 increase is a lot in one hit. Mine tends to go up £1-2 per year after I have upgraded something. We plough money into our livery all the time so I don't think this is unreasonable. My farrier puts his prices up every april by £2 without fail.
 
chocolategirl said:
Would cost even less if clients didn't leave them on all the time! I have to constantly turn lights off after my clients have either gone home or gone out riding. P****s me right off but guess that's a whole other subject! When we built our brand new, purpose built block (which cost thousands btw) we specifically made sure every stable had its own light and switch at considerable extra cost to ensure that lights could be turned off when not needed. Mmmmmm not working too well so far! Fwiw as others have said, £10 increase is a lot in one hit. Mine tends to go up £1-2 per year after I have upgraded something. We plough money into our livery all the time so I don't think this is unreasonable. My farrier puts his prices up every april by £2 without fail.
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Nice to find a like minded person like me. Do you photograph everything Chocolate??? we do with every improvement a before during and after, and have a improvement page on our website so people can see the change. One thing I learnt recently is that the website needs to change frequently and new things added to keep it interesting. I was watching a website program they were saying to keep up with the change is to keep your website fresh and newly updated. It also provides liveries with information that we are continually improving things


Like you chocolate we all do improvements all the time not like other yards around us.

We are currently re doing all our fencing to 4 x 2 rails and 4 rails high (like USA) stronger and more secure.

Also other improvements we have brought is show jumps all poly ones


also on the agenda this year is to finish selling all the wooden jumps and buy poly jumps cross country ones.


Also we have brought:

grass dressage arena and markers
rubber matting all stables
stable mirrors
arena mirrors
outside folding saddle racks outside each stable
concreted the whole courtyard from gravel
resurfaced both schools
new wrought iron gates and brick pillars from the old field gate
new stable block roofing
and the list goes on
 
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How long ago was the last price rise? If the price has remained static for many years it may be that the owner has been kind and not put prices up whilst the recession was really bad, now things are improving they may be putting up the prices to what they would have been had they been going up with inflation over the last few years.

Lots of people have not had a pay rise linked to inflation for a long time - we worked out at our work we as we had not had pay rises in line with inflation we were actually taking a pay cut each year! This situation would be the same for yard owners who were not putting up prices every year.

I think it is easy to forget that livery yards are businesses and not charities, as businesses they need to work out the maximum they can charge and still be full. In some situations it may be more profitable/less work to charge more and not be full than charge less and be full, though in that case each livery that they loose will have a bigger impact on their business.

If you are in area where grass livery is scarce then but demand is high as more people want their horses to live out either due them wanting to save money or because they prefer their horses to live out then grass livery prices will go up.
 
HGA-12 said:
Right lets dissect it down that you mentioned my costs

hay at least £ 7 per week

:that works out at less than 2 bales a week where I am from: unless you starve the horse


1 bale shavings £ 9 approx
: that is the cost of the average bale of shavings which is what I based my cost on as you did not mention straw:


stable per night : you have to pay the rent on the stable for each night :

turned out for you £ 1 minimum per day : average extra for asking Y/O to do this :
evening bring in £ 1 minimum per day ditto
schools plus lighting £ 10 per hour per time winter : that is the cost of high watts lights:


wear and tear to jumps god knows : these need repairing or replacing :

lighting in stable and tack room £ 3 per night approx : unless you work in the dark:

then there is water - leveling arenas - repair to fencing all these come out of the income you know


council taxes : still need to be payed for :within the owners rates:
insurance : needs to be payed for:

so I fail to see what you class as high
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Slightly baffled by your tack room/stable lighting costs as the yard I was at last year, yard owner posted up the electricity bill every month and it never came to more than a fiver or so, which split between eight of us normally meant we were paying pence for our electric, has someone been leaving yours on all night?

Although I agree most livery owners arn't making a living or at least an easy living but that really is their choice and not OPs fault just as her choice is to vent on here and stay or vent on here and leave.
 
I previously paid £40 per week for grass livery - actually it was assisted grass livery so it included feed and hay if I needed it. I think some people underestimate the cost of providing grass livery - or good grass livery should I say. Our fields were always well maintained - fencing was fixed, regular rolling/topping/harrowing as required.

I've since moved to a yard where I pay £55 for full livery (I am so lucky). In the summer it's usually £25 per week but it's going up to £30 this year due to an increase in field rent - apparently this is the first time in 20 years she's had to raise her prices and I accept that this increase is passed on to the liveries.
 
SO1 said:
Lots of people have not had a pay rise linked to inflation for a long time - we worked out at our work we as we had not had pay rises in line with inflation we were actually taking a pay cut each year! This situation would be the same for yard owners who were not putting up prices every year.

I think it is easy to forget that livery yards are businesses and not charities, as businesses they need to work out the maximum they can charge and still be full. In some situations it may be more profitable/less work to charge more and not be full than charge less and be full, though in that case each livery that they loose will have a bigger impact on their business.
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I think there's the nub of it, for me: given inflation, the rises in livery charges mentioned on this thread generally seem reasonable, and the starting charges generally low. But I think horse owners feel the rises more, as salaries haven't kept pace. I keep my horses at home now. Hay prices rose in the bad-hay summers and with rising diesel prices---and haven't dropped. My electricity bill has about doubled in the last few years, as have my grocery bills. Lessons (riding and otherwise) have increased, train fares have become stupidly high (while service has become worse); just about the only fee that hasn't gone up is the hoof trimmer's (hope she doesn't read this! ;) ). My salary certainly hasn't increased proportionately, and I suspect that goes for a lot of people. So a bit of complaining about a sudden increase in costs is pretty understandable, I'd say, even though the increase itself is equally understandable.
 
Totally agree I am not saying it is not hard when livery prices go up as most people have not had wages rises that are in line with inflation. If you are working and have not had a pay rise in line with inflation I would say the issue here is not that livery yard prices rises are unfair but that your employers has not given you a salary with pay rises related to inflation which put you in a difficult situation when other business do put up prices to reflect increased costs.

£40 a week for grass livery on a good yard with decent facilities and access to services, especially if hay is included or there is enough grass to not have to feed hay is a reasonable price. If there is enough space for more stables and YO can afford to build them DIY tends to be more profitable than grass livery as more horses can be accommodated on the same amount of land.


spookypony said:
I think there's the nub of it, for me: given inflation, the rises in livery charges mentioned on this thread generally seem reasonable, and the starting charges generally low. But I think horse owners feel the rises more, as salaries haven't kept pace. I keep my horses at home now. Hay prices rose in the bad-hay summers and with rising diesel prices---and haven't dropped. My electricity bill has about doubled in the last few years, as have my grocery bills. Lessons (riding and otherwise) have increased, train fares have become stupidly high (while service has become worse); just about the only fee that hasn't gone up is the hoof trimmer's (hope she doesn't read this! ;) ). My salary certainly hasn't increased proportionately, and I suspect that goes for a lot of people. So a bit of complaining about a sudden increase in costs is pretty understandable, I'd say, even though the increase itself is equally understandable.
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My yard recently put the fees up by £10 per month so now it's £130 a month for field, stable, school, brilliant off road hacking, good quality ad-lib haylage and straw between Nov-April. I have been there since 2010 and that's the first increase in that time, I think it's fair enough really, i would rather the farmer put the rent up than decided not to offer livery altogether.
 
I pay 150 per month for DIY which includes adlib hay and straw, school with lights, good hacking and farm ride and point to points course. It's a good deal and I wouldn't be surprised that a rise could come in this year since its been this price for a good while now I inderstand (I'm fairly new).

Around here numbers in livery dropped due to people's finances during the recession, livery owners didn't want to lose any more so not rising prices for a few years makes good sense, now as things pick up and waiting lists start to be formed again the opposite will be the case, makes sense really.
 
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