Livery Yard Problem.

I have to say it sounds like your YO is struggling and therefore taking advantage of you. It is not fair. You are not a charity, and it would be one thing if they were being straight with you. Where exactly do you think this is going to end if you don't do something? Friends don't lie to each other or take financial advantage. By the time someone's doing that, they've let go of a normal ethical framework and their judgement, in my experience, rarely gets better. Where's it going to end if you don't take control of the situation?
 
Is there anyone else who could help you by visiting them more frequently? I think if the YO knew there was someone keeping a close eye on whats going on, on your behalf, they might feel more wary of taking the mick. Even if its someone non-horsey, I think it might help.

I agree she can't be much of a friend to cause you this worry when you are not well.
 
Tadah said:
There are seven horses on livery, I have five of them, am not quite sure how that happened mind you ! I pay £80pw for 4 and half price for one as he only comes up to my knee ! and I also provide all the feed for them myself and pay for extra shavings.

It's a good job my hubby loves them as well :o
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You have to buy food?? and bedding???
sheesh that should be included unless special diet (different to the yard) or large quantities for large horses.

must say £ 80 per week each is cheap for full livery, which maybe why why feed not included, but this is not full livery.

We are £ 92 for part livery, every thing included except for tack cleaning and riding. We have certain feeds we supply, if owners want different they have to supply- they know this before they move- all our terms are in livery agreement form.
Sounds like someone is stealing feed etc for their horse or owners is dishing up more than you requested.

Have you got a friend who could go down and do some on schooling etc and keep an eye on things??
 
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Maybe explain to the YO that she is almost certain to lose you if things dont change

If they cant afford leadropes can they afford bedding?!

You may not be able to move 5 elsewhere easily but dont let them hold it over your head. You could rent a field if necessary and pay someone to to twice daily checks
 
I not suprised she cant afford to maintain the place if she employs a groom but only charges £80 a week for Full Livery (Care+exercise). I know you are buying feed and extra bedding but around here Full Livery is £150+ (incl hay, feed and 1 bale of bedding)
 
To me if she is struggling , she has not sat down and worked out what it cost per day for each horse.

£ 80 per week is 11.42 per day.



renting a stable
paying labour for mucking out feeding emptying barrow etc
lighting
water
electricity
insurance
changing rugs
turning out
bringing in
paying a groom per day

grooming etc. Amounts to more than £ 11.42 a day

No wonder she is loosing money.

Maybe if she worked her sums out, stated in contract what is included.


This is without food included.

She is not running it very professional IMO too many un answered questions

Also sounds too many corners being cut

are you sure your horses are exercised???

One tip I used.

Get a friends to tie a small piece of horse hair from the stirrup bar to the girth. You will then know if the saddle has been used or taken off. One livery did this in the yard she was at before us, she payed exercise 3 times a week. When she went up at the weekend, the hair was still there from the previous weekend.





.
 
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I wanted to employ my own groom to go in and just see to mine for a few hours a day, especially as I have a huge operation looming on the horizon, but this was refused. I was told I had to use her staff and the costs I was being quoted were outrageous. £2.50 to pick feet out, £5 to tack up. £20 for 15 minutes on the lunge..........

But it's this fence issue that is the final straw, plus it was the way it was mentioned. I need to put on my exceedingly large big girls pants on and have it out with her.

I wish I could go and rent a house with land and have them all with me, and get help in looking after them, maybe that is something i should look into further.

Thanks everyone for your help, it's much appreciated :)
 
I would talk to the yard owner and emphasise that being ill you need stress free livery and to rely on certain things done as required. Don't be nasty and don't 'threaten' to go but be clear that it's not working for you at the moment. I would also raise the point that all this equipment and fence breaking could lead to an accident and a horse getting injured.

I would not pay for general yard equipment as that comes under wear and tear on the yard. A wheelbarrow shouldn't be near enough to step on and I've managed to keep lead ropes in one piece for years despite cold, if lead ropes are constantly being broken then something is wrong with the handling.

If horses are breaking fences regularly then (apart from the occasional repeat offender) either the fence is not adequate or something in the situation is making them stressed in the field:- nothing to eat, too many horses, no company. From what you have said it was ramshackle to begin with.

With feed I agree that people have very different ideas of what constitutes a scoop or half scoop. What I've have done before get those pots from the supermarket deli counters, as they are smaller there is less chance of going wrong. You could even weigh them and calculate how long the bag should last. It's very easy to be wrong about how long something should last.

On the other hand the yard manager could be giving extra feed if she feels they need it which could be justified but could also be to compensate for lack of grass/forage and is it making your horses more hyper and more likely to misbehave hence all the broken items.

Ultimately if the yard is dependent on your 5 horses (and 5 full liveries is a lot to lose in one go) then they should be trying harder to keep you.
 
So you're paying a possibly fair amount for bog standard full livery (excluding exercise) - meaning that you could probably afford to have them at a better yard.

I wanted to employ my own groom to go in and just see to mine for a few hours a day, especially as I have a huge operation looming on the horizon, but this was refused. I was told I had to use her staff and the costs I was being quoted were outrageous. £2.50 to pick feet out, £5 to tack up. £20 for 15 minutes on the lunge..........
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But the horse is on full livery the only extra charge you should theoretically be looking at is exercise - and that would be at around £10 an hour.......
 
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Tadah said:
I wanted to employ my own groom to go in and just see to mine for a few hours a day, especially as I have a huge operation looming on the horizon, but this was refused. I was told I had to use her staff and the costs I was being quoted were outrageous. £2.50 to pick feet out, £5 to tack up. £20 for 15 minutes on the lunge..........

But it's this fence issue that is the final straw, plus it was the way it was mentioned. I need to put on my exceedingly large big girls pants on and have it out with her.

I wish I could go and rent a house with land and have them all with me, and get help in looking after them, maybe that is something i should look into further.

Thanks everyone for your help, it's much appreciated :)
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£ 20 for 15 mins lunging ????:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
I charge £ 7.50


MOVE MOVE

No question
 
There are yards out there who would appreciate you and your horses. We had a situation last year where by we needed stables for 9 (whole yard basically leaving as YO turned out to be a lunatic!) and whilst not easy we did find somewhere. We are now in a lovely yard with a YO who can't do enough to help. She even helped us move yards and nothing is too much trouble. Great yards expand (as we are now) so don't make the mistake of feeling trapped. Your health is so important and this stress can't be good for you. Good luck x
 
TBH I think it would probably work out cheaper to rent a house with some land and stables than to keep five on full livery, plus then you could see them more regularly, you just need to make sure you factor all the additional overheads in that are quickly forgotten! I'm a YO and in our contract we states along the lines that all breakages are to be paid for by the owner and wear and tear repairs by the yard. We are always very fair with this and wouldn't charge for any of the items you describe. The wheelbarrow shouldn't have been left behind your horse so that was the fault of whoever parked it there, re leadropes etc you would supply your own and we would let you know if it broke, but these things really don't break that often!! Re fencing we have post and rail with electric so they can't be chewed but in my opininon chewing isn't wear and tear and this would be charged for, however, as we have put electric round all our rails to prevent this and they are also creosoted every two years it would have to be a real hardened chewer to go at it, and it's not something I've charged for, it sounds as though they aren't taking any precautions against chewing so shouldn't charge for it, especially as there is no proof it was your horse and fencing is shoddy already! I don't agree that things such as broken five bar gates should just be sucked up by the YO, a decent gate costs over £300!! :eek: However, again depends on circumstances, if the gate was rickety and it leaned on it of course not, but if it charged through /over and broke a good gate unprovoked then I personally think the owner should pay - running a yard is low profit and if you paid for everything it could end up loss making. Unless you're able to move quickly I think you should speak to the YO and let them know all the things you're unhappy about and that you won't be paying for them, that you only want your equipment used on your horses and that anything of yours that gets broken you'd like it back to see if it can be repaired (should cover the never ending need for new nets, ropes, headcollars). I think you're definitely getting your leg lifted and need to say something quickly (whilst looking around for other yards or rental properties!).
 
I agree with everybody here saying to move, the YO is taking advantage.

In the interim, I think you should find somebody you trust to visit regularly. Or advertise for a sharer?

I don't see how the YO can insist on you using her staff? It's up to you who cares (beyond the basics) and exercises your horses surely?
 
I would also move.

Whereabouts are you, rough area - you never know a HHO member may be able to take you to the yard and you can see at first hand the "damage" or indeed know of yards who may be able to take in your horses while you get better.

Do you have a friend whom you would trust that could go on your behalf to ascertain the damage.

:)
 
Leviathan said:
£ 20 for 15 mins lunging ????:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
I charge £ 7.50


MOVE MOVE

No question
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I know :rolleyes: TBH i think it's more assisted livery than full, there is no grooming included, I have been paying an extra £75 pw to have one of my boys exercised, he is coming back after some time off and I didn't want him stuck in a stable for months when he has mild arthritis, he needs some gentle exercise a least.
God the more I am reading back the worse it sounds.:(
 
Tadah said:
I wanted to employ my own groom to go in and just see to mine for a few hours a day, especially as I have a huge operation looming on the horizon, but this was refused. I was told I had to use her staff and the costs I was being quoted were outrageous. £2.50 to pick feet out, £5 to tack up. £20 for 15 minutes on the lunge..........

But it's this fence issue that is the final straw, plus it was the way it was mentioned. I need to put on my exceedingly large big girls pants on and have it out with her.

I wish I could go and rent a house with land and have them all with me, and get help in looking after them, maybe that is something i should look into further.

Thanks everyone for your help, it's much appreciated :)
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You are paying for full, or at least what I would call part, livery, there should be no charge to pick out feet, tacking up if they are exercising should be counted as one and £20 for lunging is bordering on ridiculous and really is pushing their luck.
The YO is possibly undercharging but with all the extras added on for breakages, services as well as feed and bedding on top £440 pw plus the other 2 should easily cover costs as well as give an income but will not allow employing a full time groom, they should easily be able to do 7 without too much help especially once we get into the spring and the costs go down when they can stay out more.
 
I've already commented but have read all the thread now. I'm sorry op but this lady is no friend- you're her cash cow. You'd be better on diy, paying a freelance groom, or renting a field. I'm angry on your behalf! where in the country are you maybe somebody could help?
 
horsesatemymoney said:
I've already commented but have read all the thread now. I'm sorry op but this lady is no friend- you're her cash cow. You'd be better on diy, paying a freelance groom, or renting a field. I'm angry on your behalf! where in the country are you maybe somebody could help?
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Same here, especially as she seems to be taking advantage of the OP's ill health.
That's low.
 
Can you get up there with your OH to have a face to face talk,
If so plan well write down the points you need to get across in advance so you arrive with your mind clear.
Don't get angry , you have to think of it not as a friend who is letting you down ( upsetting and annoying ) but a person providing a service that is not up tp scratch ( no less annoying but not really upsetting).
But I would get researching alternative short and medium term as well as long term ( finding your own place ) straight away.
 
Thank you everyone.

I am in West Kent right on border of East Sussex n

I will have to get hubby to go and have a look and a word at the weekend. I have just worked out how much I Have paid this calendar year, not including feed and extra bedding and it's well over 20k. My hubby works so hard to keep these horses for me and I am sat here stressing about a fence.

I think I will need to start looking at alternatives, make some contingency plans.

Maybe do a spot of house hunting :)
 
Tadah said:
Thank you everyone.

I am in West Kent right on border of East Sussex n

I will have to get hubby to go and have a look and a word at the weekend. I have just worked out how much I Have paid this calendar year, not including feed and extra bedding and it's well over 20k. My hubby works so hard to keep these horses for me and I am sat here stressing about a fence.

I think I will need to start looking at alternatives, make some contingency plans.

Maybe do a spot of house hunting :)
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:eek:That's extortionate!! She should be treating you like a queen TBH. Definitely get this sorted quickly - you'll feel so much better afterwards! Just read your previous post, there is no way a horse should be charged £2.50 to have feet picked out, it should be included in the full livery package and even if not on full livery £2.50 is ridiculous, we charge £2.50 to bring in, change rugs AND pick out feet. £20 to lunge also crazy, we charge £10 for up to half an hours lunging -it's only £15 for an hours schooling session, and we are not the cheapest. She has definitely been taking advantage I'm sad to say.
 
That would be a lot of mortgage repayments if you found somewhere to keep them of your own - even with the cost of a freelance groom coming in to look after them for you.
4 horses and 1 mini could be given basic care (feed, rugs, muck out, turn in/ out) in say 3 hours a day which at £8 an hour is only £170 a week, it you're already paying separately for bedding, feed and exercise that gives you almost £200 a week to pay into a mortgage for a place of your own or rent on a private yard of your own before it started to cost you any more money.

Sorry that was on basic £80 a week livery costs (£40 for the mini) - I totally missed the post about all the 'extras' - plenty of funds to cover their needs and a freelance groom who will do exactly what you want on your own (rented or purchased) property.
 
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What a mess!

I would have a serious chat with the YO, tell her that you think of her as a friend and have loved having your horses there, but that the way things are going you are going to end up falling out and you moving your horses. You may have to seriously chew the fat a bit. Take hubby with you. The thought of losing you and all your horses may just give her the kick up the backside she needs and things may sort out, you never know.

I would look around. You are paying nearly £400 a week in livery. Someone near us has just rented a yard for £70 pw with three brand new boxes and a feed/storage shed. I used to pay about £24 per day for a groom to muck out two big horses a cob and a small pony... It could work out that you had a yard and groom for similar money. You have to think that a groom could let you down, so you would need a backup plan, perhaps someone who has a stable there for free in return for letting you know how things are going, and doing the horses on the groom's day off. Ideally you could do with a large field and a couple of large field shelters, plus someone to check them.

By the way, I did DIY on my brand new yard. The spotless stables got holes kicked out of the kickboards, chewed, drainpipes knocked off and trees driven over with bad trailer drivers, fences broken, fields trashed my own horse's rugs ripped by a livery's horse several times.... You name it, we never charged a penny. Thats part and parcel really. I would have subtly asked someone to leave if their horse constantly trashed the place, rather than keep charging.
 
Tadah said:
There are seven horses on livery, I have five of them, am not quite sure how that happened mind you ! I pay £80pw for 4 and half price for one as he only comes up to my knee ! and I also provide all the feed for them myself and pay for extra shavings.

It's a good job my hubby loves them as well :o
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So essentially you are paying DIY livery rates? Do you pay extra for all their care?
 
op try and post in the regional section here. 20k is about 1400 a month, you're paying her nearly the salary of a newly qualified teacher! I wish I was nearer, I'd load the horses and move your stuff for you!
 
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