Livery yard / Stallion question

[cobletmum]

Hi - thanks for letting me join!

Just looking for a bit of advice and to see if anyone has experienced anything similar. I've gone to BHS and will seek legal advice if need be but thought I'd check here too!

I have my horse on DIY livery but the yard owner has had new fencing put up in our summer grazing fields which is not 100% secure. After my mare arrived, the owner bought a colt and fast forward a year and he now knows exactly what is required of him! My yard owner has said that if he escapes and gets my mare pregnant, there is nothing she can do and it's not her fault.

Our contract doesn't say anything about stallions or even anything remotely related to anything like this!

I'm just wondering if he does escape and covers my mare (try as we might, I can't watch her 24/7) does anyone know if I have any rights and if so what they are.

Not looking to cause any arguments or debates, just looking for some friendly advice!

Thankyou

 

[paddi22]

I'd a neighbour's stallion escape into our field and impregnate mare. the owner paid for the vet to come and pinch the horses to remove pregnancy. the stallion owner was easy to deal with but might be a different kettle of fish with a difficult person. what a horrible situation for you. yard owner sounds like a horror

 

[Gallop_Away]

I keep my horses on a livery yard that also runs a stud breeding Welsh Section D's. They have 2 stallions which they leave to run with their mares. It is large farm so both breeding herds are kept well away each other and from the livery horses. Fences are also maintained to a very strict standard.

As far as I am aware, the onus is on the owner of the stallion to keep the stallion secured. If the stallion breaks out then they are liable for any damages i.e. the cost of getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy at least, injuries or fatalities at worst.

The attitude of your YO is quite appalling to be honest. Stallions seem to have a bad reputation here in the UK, whereas Europe and further afield they are not considered to the monsters we seem to panic about over here. However, as a stallion owner you need to show responsibility and your YO should be taking precautions to ensure her stallion is secure and kept away from your horses. Her attitude is extremely irresponsible. I'd be looking for a new yard ....

 

[AmyMay]

Just move.

 

[Cowpony]

I'd be moving due to the yard owner's attitude, let alone the risk to my mare! Sounds like constructive eviction to me.

 

[Caol Ila]

I think moving is the answer.

When I was doing some freelance training, one of my clients moved to a new yard. It had more turnout than her old one, so I thought, yay, great! I got to the yard, tack up the mare, and as we led her to the arena, we walked past a paddock with the YO's stallion. The only thing between us and that stallion was a single strand of electric tape on those little plastic posts. And the mare was in season. Stallion was going nuts, running up and down the fence. "Um, this isn't very safe," I said to my client. She blithely assured me, "Oh no, YO said he's fine and he respects the fence." Uh-uh.

 

[Cortez]

Depends on how good the fencing is.

 

[cobletmum]

I think moving is the answer.

When I was doing some freelance training, one of my clients moved to a new yard. It had more turnout than her old one, so I thought, yay, great! I got to the yard, tack up the mare, and as we led her to the arena, we walked past a paddock with the YO's stallion. The only thing between us and that stallion was a single strand of electric tape on those little plastic posts. And the mare was in season. Stallion was going nuts, running up and down the fence. "Um, this isn't very safe," I said to my client. She blithely assured me, "Oh no, YO said he's fine and he respects the fence." Uh-uh.

It's so frustrating isn't it! Unfortunately moving at the moment isn't an option as there are limited livery yards near me and none of them have vacancies! I'm keeping an eye though!

 

[cobletmum]

I'd be moving due to the yard owner's attitude, let alone the risk to my mare! Sounds like constructive eviction to me.

She hasn't told any of the other owners of mares There are quite a few of us too!

I keep my horses on a livery yard that also runs a stud breeding Welsh Section D's. They have 2 stallions which they leave to run with their mares. It is large farm so both breeding herds are kept well away each other and from the livery horses. Fences are also maintained to a very strict standard.

As far as I am aware, the onus is on the owner of the stallion to keep the stallion secured. If the stallion breaks out then they are liable for any damages i.e. the cost of getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy at least, injuries or fatalities at worst.

The attitude of your YO is quite appalling to be honest. Stallions seem to have a bad reputation here in the UK, whereas Europe and further afield they are not considered to the monsters we seem to panic about over here. However, as a stallion owner you need to show responsibility and your YO should be taking precautions to ensure her stallion is secure and kept away from your horses. Her attitude is extremely irresponsible. I'd be looking for a new yard ....

Thankyou for your reply
Unfortunately moving isn't an option at the moment due to none of the livery yards in my area having space which is frustrating
I am on waiting lists though!

 

[ihatework]

Well …. Stallions aren’t always devils and it’s perfectly possible with good management to have them integrated into a ‘normal’ yard.

I say that with the caveat that on a commercial DIY yard then the owner/manager completely has a responsibility. If there was an ‘accident’ then I’d expect some level of liability.

So if it’s well managed I wouldn’t panic. If it’s not then go elsewhere

 

[Gallop_Away]

She hasn't told any of the other owners of mares There are quite a few of us too!

Thankyou for your reply
Unfortunately moving isn't an option at the moment due to none of the livery yards in my area having space which is frustrating
I am on waiting lists though!

What sort of fencing is between them? You will be surprised what a determined stallion will get through to get at a mare.

Not wanting to scare you but a potential pregnancy would be the least of my concern. It would worry me more about the potential injuries that a loose stallion could cause your mares.

If moving isn't an option I would invest in some electric fencing as an extra precaution. Perhaps you and the other mare owners could split it between you. You shouldn't need to of course as the YO should be taking responsibility for the safety of her livery horses, but I would personally rather be safe than sorry.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Just move.

This it's not worth the hassle

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It does depend on the fencing the horse and the whole set up, I kept my stallion for nearly 5 years on a few livery yards and had a few minor incidents but he never escaped although he is so respectful of electric fencing he won't go near it, he was also not that interested in mares and none where kept really close to him.

I have seen a yearling colt go over a 5 bar gate to get to mares so some literally have no boundaries.

Also to add anyone with that attitude shouldn't be running a livery yard and probably not have a stallion, very irresponsible and dangerous and quite frankly I would get out of there ASAP.

 

[Cortez]

This it's not worth the hassle

Are you assuming that the horse is a wild, ravening beast with no manners and uncontrollable urges? Because most covering stallions are not like that and can be kept alongside mares perfectly happily.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Are you assuming that the horse is a wild, ravening beast with no manners and uncontrollable urges? Because most covering stallions are not like that and can be kept alongside mares perfectly happily.

If you read my post afterwards I have said it depends on fencing, set up and the horse, I've kept a stallion on livery mine was fairly easy and have know lots that are.

My main concern why I said leave is the yo attitude you can't change that unfortunately hence why I said leave.

 

[Gallop_Away]

If you read my post afterwards I have said it depends on fencing, set up and the horse, I've kept a stallion on livery mine was fairly easy and have know lots that are.

My main concern why I said leave is the yo attitude you can't change that unfortunately hence why I said leave.

This is what I find off putting. You could have the best behaved stallion in the world but the YO's attitude is completely irresponsible and I wouldn't want my horses anywhere near this yard.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Having kept a number of colts and stallions, I can honestly say that those entire lads were never a problem. Maybe a bit shouty but never being kept in a 'fort Knox' tiny, high fenced corral but out during the day with decent fencing to 5 and 6 ft high.

One spring I had one tart of a mare demolish one fence and jump another to get to the boys (yes, 2 full lads out together, rising 3 and 11, senior kept youngster in line nicely) which I ended up sending her packing to stud with a friend when healed up from fence damage, plus another rude livery gelding who acted like a badly behaved 2 yr old colt from the day he arrived, so was given notice.

OP, is this colt in at night? If so, can you alternate and have your mare in when he's out? That's is if the (minimum) 2 fences between them really are not secure?

 

[Ratface]

I'm on a small private yard. We have a retired ridden 15.2hh purebred Arabian showing stallion, who has been there all his life. He's in his part of the grazing, out of sight of the single elderly mare. He's very polite to handle, groom and ride. He's been brought up to be this way, doesn't push boundaries and consequently doesn't.
Like almost all horses and ponies, they reflect the way the way they were brought up.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I'm on a small private yard. We have a retired ridden 15.2hh purebred Arabian showing stallion, who has been there all his life. He's in his part of the grazing, out of sight of the single elderly mare. He's very polite to handle, groom and ride. He's been brought up to be this way, doesn't push boundaries and consequently doesn't.
Like almost all horses and ponies, they reflect the way the way they were brought up.

I find most Arab stallions are quite laid back I've known quite a few over the years some you wouldn't even have known they were stallions, years ago the stallions at war were used to sleep in the tents with women and children and we still have horses from those bloodlines now.

 

[Auslander]

Crappy attitude! We have a 3yo colt here, and although he's a very good boy, he's definitely become more aware of the mares recently, so I'm very careful where he is turned out, and we have various rules in place, so that he doesn't get mares waved under his nose anywhere where he could do anything about it. He is expected to deal with mares on the yard when he's in his stable, but we are still careful - the onus is on me not to let him get to the girls.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It is a crap attitude and for me it would be a deal breaker for where I kept my horse.

 

[Gloi]

If this is still a young colt the yo should be worried about what would happen to him too, if he tried it on with a mare that wasn't receptive.

 

[hollyandivy123]

I was at a small livery/stud once who decided not to geld one of the colts and to use him rather than buying frozen......... the yard manager said if it got out and covered any of the livery mares he would charge stud fee and add it to the livery bill

us owners with mares pointed out if it got out, covered a mare and if we decided to keep it,
1. we will not be paying stud fee,
2. we would be keeping the foal and would also expect free livery for both,
3. if we decided not to keep it then he would be paying the vet fees and any associated costs


fencing and field placement improved after this short conversation, shame though he was a nice stamp, the mare I had at the time was the only one I have owned that I would have bred from temperament wise

it was many years ago

 

[vmac66]

We have a 3 year old colt where I keep my mare. At the moment he hasn't realised what to do with a mare but we're waiting for the day he does. He's kept in a field at the tip of the school, i won't use the school when he's out. I would expect the yard owner to accept full responsibility for any mishaps with my mare

 

[tristar]

be aware that if a stallion gets in with a mare it will very likely chase it, mare could run into or through fencing, specially if its a maiden, also stallions, can vary in attitude, and some i have know are very territorial and know where every horse is all the time, they can be ultra quick and be very opportunistic, on watch 24 7 for the moment when handlers guard is down.

also in the event of it getting loose it would not hesitate to mount a mare whilst its being ridden.

now not all are like this but until something happens you don`t know!

they can jump out, crash through, make a decision whether the horse is secure or not.

the half baked attitude of the yo is a huge problem here.

 

[PeterNatt]

The simplest and safest solution is to move your mare. If the Stallion does escape it could cause serious isues with a broken fence and then impregnating your horse. If the owner os awkward then your only recourse would be through court action but this would be expesnive, talkea long time and be traumatic. Sadly the most sensible option is just to move.