Livery Yard that make money!

The last yard I was on definitely made a profit - the YO's made no bones about this!! The yard had approximately 50 horses and was run alongside a working arable and sheep farm.

They charged £27 per week for stable and grazing. This only included bedding (straw off their own fields) but they sold shavings - at slightly above standard retail price. They produced their own hay and sold that by the bale (with CCTV to check back how many liveries had ;) ). They also sold feed - again at above retail. Wormers etc were added to bills four times a year.

The yard was a mix of full, part and DIY liveries but DIY was just that. If you wanted extras, including turnout, rugs, feeding etc these were all charged for. On weekends they had 15/16 year olds working on the yard as they cost less.

There were limited facilities - a jumping paddock and a small sand school. If horses damaged anything you were charged for it and any maintenance carried out was only that which was absolutely essential. It really was run as tight as possible but in terms of making money it definitely did. I think their key was to give as little as possible for the basic rent but charge for absolutely everything else and also sell feed, wormers, shavings etc making a profit on them.
 
Well, it completely amazes me how cheap many peoples livery are on this forum.

I pay £135 a week for one of my horses which I keep on part livery, and £50 a week for my other horse who I keep on DIY livery. Our yard is full with a waiting list now. All the yards in this area of the country charge these sort of rates (apart from small privately owned places, which may not have any facilities and wont offer any services), and I think it's more than possible to keep things ticking over with enough money to live on by charging these prices if the yard is managed well.

If YOs want to make more money, then they'll probably need to supplement it by offering other services like lessons or something?
 
My friend used to run a livery yard, she paid nearly £1000 a month rent for 15 acres, 22 stables and an indoor school. She also lived on site in a mobile home.
At the time the DIY price was £25 a week but you paid separately for hay and straw bought from her. She didn't charge extra on top of what she paid for that much to her husbands annoyance!
Full livery was £70 a week and she had about 6 full liveries and the rest DIY. I worked for her and kept my horse there for nothing for a couple of years. She had 3 of her own horses too.
She also did assisted livery for the DIYers but charged silly money like 75p to bring in or turn out, and full livery for the day was an extra £5.
It was a really nice yard with a good atmosphere and most people had been there for years, I was there on and off for 15 years myself!
I think she just about broke even, but still had another part time job in the afternoons as well as doing the yard.
 
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I am on a yard (not a YO) with 65 horses on DIY - we pay between £180 - £200pcm for stable and field, but everything else we pay for (feed, bedding, etc etc). We also pay for leccy for clipping, floodlights for sandschool, etc. We can pay another livery £2 for turnout or bring in, and £3 for a muck out. Everyone seems pretty happy.

I reckon they make a very hefty profit, but I appreciate their outgoings must be astronomical - they also have to deal with lots of yard politics with 65 owners plus sharers, etc. I'd still like their life though!
 
Misinterpreted said:
Well, it completely amazes me how cheap many peoples livery are on this forum.

I pay £135 a week for one of my horses which I keep on part livery, and £50 a week for my other horse who I keep on DIY livery. Our yard is full with a waiting list now. All the yards in this area of the country charge these sort of rates (apart from small privately owned places, which may not have any facilities and wont offer any services), and I think it's more than possible to keep things ticking over with enough money to live on by charging these prices if the yard is managed well.

If YOs want to make more money, then they'll probably need to supplement it by offering other services like lessons or something?
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What county are you in?

To be honest I would raise livery rates, but there is always somewhere cheaper if not as good!
 
T-Bag said:
You are a lucky one then, no doubt rent/mortgage is a YOs biggest out going and making your hay isn't free!
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No not free but I charge my liveries £4 a bale in their livery (which is cheap for down here) it only cost me £1 to make it !!

And yes im guessing that is a big outlay if i had that i would make nothing x
 
merliebug said:
I am on a yard (not a YO) with 65 horses on DIY - we pay between £180 - £200pcm for stable and field, but everything else we pay for (feed, bedding, etc etc). !
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Do you get haylage in with that?

£41.50 to £46.15 a week, to be honest I feel DIY should be around £40 a week for a decent yard!
 
As a few others have pointed out - having to pay rent/mortages kills it!
I have run a yard (with the help of my mum) for nearly 10 years now.
It doesnt make money - why do i do it? We are the only yard in the area with real winter turnout - so my horses are happy!
the guy who owns the land etc built the yard for us, which we were very lucky to have... but we pay him a whoppppping rent! after a few years we did actually go to him to say it wasnt even breaking even so we were going to have to give up... he reduced the rent by £50 a week.... but as we were struggling to fill boxes - we in turn had to reduce our stable rents!!!
as we are 4 miles from the main horsey area, people dont even consider our yard until we talk them into coming to look around... normally they then fall in love with the place!

I wont reveal how much rent we pay... but the estate is for sale for £4.5million... hence you can imagine what we pay to rent 19 stables... 35 acres of land.... indoor school etc!

when we have stables empty... my livery for my own horses jumps up :( my liveries often dont realise i also pay money into it for my own horses and its not all free!

Its nice though being a YO as i know my horses have the best they can, and i know that we run it fairly for everyone :)
 
i think a lot of YO also have their own horses ours has 5 and if you think how much it would cost and the time taken to look after them to have them at a livery (at least £1000 a month) having her own yard and running a livery business makes makes sense.

I am sure she makes most of her money by buying in bulk at discounted rates and then selling hay and shavings (everyone buys them off her and there about 40 of us) and doing services rather than renting out the boxes/field spaces.

There are cheaper liveries in the area but they are not as nice and people often end up moving back quite quickly and there is rarely a vacancy.

I don't think she could afford not to break even at least and earn enough not to get lots debt and to be honest most working people who have horses do not have large amounts of money left over at the end of the month whatever the job they have.
 
I know our yard wasn't making a profit over the winter, they were making a loss to the extent we had a livery meeting and all agreed to take the hit on the price going up to £70/wk (hadn't gone up for 3 years!!!). There are 15 full livery horses (not exercised), 2 horses belonging to the YM and a riding school (approx 25 horses). We're in the process of buying (long story) the yard as a kind of co-op so we are too acutely aware of the costs and lack of profit involved. A lot of the profit comes from the riding lessons more than livery fees and we're lucky to get good deals from local suppliers.

We all pitch in with maintenance/coffee/wine/turnign lights off/looking after the yard and people and are happy to suffer a slightly boggy/frozen school and no all year round turnout for the support we get in return, fingers crossed we can buy the yard and make enough to pay our Yard Manager and Assistant and keep our horses in the style they've become accustomed too :)
Apologies if that was a bit off topic, but felt bad for all the YO/YM's out there....
 
I don't know how small yards make money but my YO and his family seem to do all right out of having a 80 horse yard, a Riding School, 6 kids of their own, run 3 cars (2 people carriers and x1 5 series BMW), holiday 3 times a year (just come back from a Mediterranean Cruise) and live in a very large farmhouse...I'm not sure if they live on beans on toast but you do here the YO threaten to put up livery prices every year, every time something needs fixing!!!

Not trying to sound flippant but there is obviously money in horses so if your yard isn't making money then maybe it's the way you run it?
 
I'm sorry, I really really don't get why YO's are always saying they don't earn a profit and/or take a salary....

If that is the case for every single YO...why on earth do it?? I certainly wouldn't go to work full time if I earned nothing and I don't get why YO's would?!?! This is a genuine question btw...I'm not 'getting' at anyone, I just don't get it!

there must be something about it that you love so much that you prefer it to getting a "normal" job or you just wouldn't do it?

But....I've never met a YO yet that didn't have more than 1 horse, at least 1 4 x 4 if not 2, at least 1 horse box and/or trailer.....;)
 
I read a lot on here about livery prices etc and am always shocked at what seems a lot of people get for their money. I am DIY, I pay for the rent of 2 stables and a field (inc water and electricity)- thats it. I pay extra for all bedding, hay feed school lights and all services. This is the only way I've ever known DIY. I can't understand how anyone can make money charging £15 a week, including turn outs/bring insetc and hay and bedding. (especially at todays prices). This to me counts as part livery and should be over £100 a week. My yard for full livery (inc riding) is £180 a week - add it all up and its a fair price while allowing the YO to earn a living. (Not that I could afford it - ever!)
 
greyshighland said:
What a start to the winter,and my liveries had more haylage than bedding in their stables this morning!!!Think the only yards that will make money are large ones who over restrict
bedding and hay/haylage .
Sorry I cannot give you any advice but you are not alone,time for a change ,all I do is subsidise other peoples horses.
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Well I made a slight loss last year, and don't think it will be any different next year. I only do full/part livery for a maximum of 5 horses (plus my own two). I really don't know how anyone affords to do DIY. A friend of mine had to close her DIY yard when she realised that her 7 liveries were costing her more in electric and water than they paid (the livery was £25/week).

I really need to put my prices up. I felt really bad doing it this year when haylage prices rose by 40% but I only raised it by £4 a week and it didn't nearly meet the increase in costs so it will have to go up again this year just so I can break even.

I do wonder why I do it, actually!
 
coen said:
Wow I am obviously in the wrong area, every yard I have been to has ended up costing lots so I would find it hard to see how they didn't make a healthy profit
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Look at my costs for a full livery per week October to June:

£22 haylage
£20 bedding
£8.00 feed
£2.50 insurance
£7.50 business rates
£2.00 water
£3.00 electric
£5.00 Maintenance such as arena, fencing, stabling and equipment
£2.00 Deisel and transportation costs for feed etc.
£4.00 Field maintenance.

Total £76 when nothing goes wrong. Last year we had some major maintenance costs and other unexpected expenses that meant that we made a loss.

I charge between 85 and £100 per week and work 7 days a week 365 days a year. I must be mad! :rolleyes:
 
Wagtail said:
Look at my costs for a full livery per week October to June:

£22 haylage
£20 bedding
£8.00 feed
£2.50 insurance
£7.50 business rates
£2.00 water
£3.00 electric
£5.00 Maintenance such as arena, fencing, stabling and equipment
£2.00 Deisel and transportation costs for feed etc.
£4.00 Field maintenance.

Total £76 when nothing goes wrong. Last year we had some major maintenance costs and other unexpected expenses that meant that we made a loss.

I charge between 85 and £100 per week and work 7 days a week 365 days a year. I must be mad! :rolleyes:
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Are you classing full livery including riding???? (there are so many terms these days:) ) If so £100 a week - PUT YOUR PRICES UP!!!!!! If I add up my DIY cost

Livery (stable and field) £30
Haylage (say 2 bales) £14
Feed (£10)
Services off YO £20
Diesel (£40) based on visits twice a day
Shavings £8

This is an average week for 1 of my 2 horses = £122 a week

I could get all this off you and ridden (?) for £100 a week!!!
I think we're both mad:D
 
We used to offer hay inc. for the DIY contingent, but they wasted it. It was dumped everywhere, far too much was put out, so the horses were grinding it into the ground, etc etc etc...

So we withdrew that offer, adjusted the cost accordingly, and amazingly, you don't see any hay wasted at all now.....

:D
 
Honey08 said:
As for the person who doesn't understand why DIYs and grass liveries don't make money - think insurance, rolling, harrowing, toppping and re-seeding fields, creosoting fences and stables, concreting yards, maintaining gate and fences...
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My YO must make a profit - and the reason is that they don't do any of that lot except insurance :rolleyes:. Nothing gets properly mended, just bodged back together. The electric fences are all in a dire state, the fields get no maintenance, and the stables are falling down. We are charged for every little job (fair enough), and for the hay and bedding we use, so I imagine she is doing ok. I, on the other hand, am moving away asap. :mad:
 
jon1210 said:
I will let you know what they are when i go to see her why do you think these prices are over estimated??
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Because an absolutely TOP price for 'finished' cattle (ready to slaughter) would be around the £1700-1800 mark (the top primestock winners at Chelford Christmas show sale made £2.40 and £2.70 a kg - but the average for all show cattle was £2.157 per kg.) These are 'finished' cattle - so closer to 2 years old.

For store cattle in the Midlands at the beginning of February, these were the average prices.

Hereford cross yearling steers average 427.26
Hereford cross 18 month old steers average 557.13
Hereford cross 2 year old steers average 639.11

So the prices you quote do NOT compute!:D

Continental crosses were a bit higher

Continental cross yearling steers average 557.88
Continental cross 18 month old steers average 673.32
Continental cross 2 year old steers average 818.68
 
As a Yo I stopped doing ad lib haylage to be honest when a 16 pony is being fed between 120lbs 180lbs of haylage a day and most of was to cust down on her bedding costs so we stopped it and she was furious but we were making a massive loss. It was pay for one bale get 3 free in her case but she left and now the haylage is not used and abused we still dont make any money out of it but that's the norm.

As for wages dont get any just about break even with winter fuels costs, electric, water, insurance, repairs, field maintenance etc. I think it's been bad for all YO to be honest.
 
Hi, I have run my yard for nearly 6 years. In that time I have been a satelite centre and trained NVQ's which is where most of my income came from. To do this I had to have my own horses to compete on. I had a few liveries and also did a few lessons. The college could not fund NVQ's anymore so that stopped and when the rescession kicked in I had to bin off the riding school and Pony Club as it cost me more to keep the ponies than I was making and filled up with liveries.
So now I have just liveries and at first did no DIY but now need to fill the stables to pay my high rent. I work from 6.30 am until 6pm and then some more later if needed and I teach and do equine massage aswell.
Yes I do have 5 horses from 19 years - 2 years and have though about selling them. One is my old mare and two I have bred, one has a tweeked suspensory at the mo. Basically some months I break even and some months my husband has to help me out. This is so not good for my mental health and we have been looking for a way out for a couple of years now. I am stuck though as what other job would I do that could enable me to keep my horses. I also rent a DIY yard off site that I am just setting up to try and earn a little extra money each month.
There is no money in livery unless you have very cheap rent or own the yard and land. It is a lifestyle and yes in summer you can forget the bad times but in winter I have more bad days than good ones.....I would love a way out but sometimes it seems there is not one that does not mean selling my friends and babies so I put up with it.
It is 9.30pm now and we are off to check the horses, put up extra nets for liveries and skip out.....not tucked up nice and warm like everyone else who went gone home long ago!!
I am passionate about horses but even so it is a hard way of life at times and I often want to give up. Yes I know it is all my fault but sometimes you end up in a place that you did not mean to and yes I am trying to change things for the better but it is not easy. I'm not sure how Peter puts up with me!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. I am also old and tired!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
cm2581 said:
Why don't you provide a DIY stable and field without hay and bedding. One pallet for bedding and one for hay for each stable. People will be a lot more efficient in what they use if they are paying by the bale!!
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I think that is a little unfair. My horses are on full livery but we often do Cappy's hay net and put Fany's in her stable on the floor. I am always careful not to waste any, I put what he has dropped back into his net and ensure , to the best of my ability, that he does not waste any. Fany is like a hoover, hers is always gone! Seriously though not all liveries are selfish and thoughtless, we always sweep up after ourselves, turn lights off and help when we can. So please don't tar us all with the same brush.

I am lucky our YO never moans about haylage use, in fact she will often say "he needs more than that"

FDC
 
Fairynuff said:
I sincerely hope that the liveries (DIY/full or part) take in what we YO's are up against re costs and begin to appreciate us a wee bit more! .
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Kind of a 2 way street don't you think?

I sincerely hope our YO feels appreciated because she most certainly is. That is why we like to buy her the odd pressie now and then, to show how much we appreciate what she does.
FDC
 
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JanetGeorge said:
Because an absolutely TOP price for 'finished' cattle (ready to slaughter) would be around the £1700-1800 mark (the top primestock winners at Chelford Christmas show sale made £2.40 and £2.70 a kg - but the average for all show cattle was £2.157 per kg.) These are 'finished' cattle - so closer to 2 years old.

For store cattle in the Midlands at the beginning of February, these were the average prices.

Hereford cross yearling steers average 427.26
Hereford cross 18 month old steers average 557.13
Hereford cross 2 year old steers average 639.11

So the prices you quote do NOT compute!:D

Continental crosses were a bit higher

Continental cross yearling steers average 557.88
Continental cross 18 month old steers average 673.32
Continental cross 2 year old steers average 818.68
Click to expand...

My farmer hubby was very impressed with your stats JG, as would my big bro be, as he is an auctioneer @ Chelford (JF)!!
 
smiffyimp said:
Are you classing full livery including riding???? (there are so many terms these days:) ) If so £100 a week - PUT YOUR PRICES UP!!!!!! If I add up my DIY cost

Livery (stable and field) £30
Haylage (say 2 bales) £14
Feed (£10)
Services off YO £20
Diesel (£40) based on visits twice a day
Shavings £8

This is an average week for 1 of my 2 horses = £122 a week

I could get all this off you and ridden (?) for £100 a week!!!
I think we're both mad:D
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No my full livery is everything except exercise. Sorry for the confusion. I do what I class as full livery and part livery which is the same but own muck out at weekends. I charge extra for schooling and lessons. :)
 
Jeni Ball said:
Hi, I have run my yard for nearly 6 years. In that time I have been a satelite centre and trained NVQ's which is where most of my income came from. To do this I had to have my own horses to compete on. I had a few liveries and also did a few lessons. The college could not fund NVQ's anymore so that stopped and when the rescession kicked in I had to bin off the riding school and Pony Club as it cost me more to keep the ponies than I was making and filled up with liveries.
So now I have just liveries and at first did no DIY but now need to fill the stables to pay my high rent. I work from 6.30 am until 6pm and then some more later if needed and I teach and do equine massage aswell.
Yes I do have 5 horses from 19 years - 2 years and have though about selling them. One is my old mare and two I have bred, one has a tweeked suspensory at the mo. Basically some months I break even and some months my husband has to help me out. This is so not good for my mental health and we have been looking for a way out for a couple of years now. I am stuck though as what other job would I do that could enable me to keep my horses. I also rent a DIY yard off site that I am just setting up to try and earn a little extra money each month.
There is no money in livery unless you have very cheap rent or own the yard and land. It is a lifestyle and yes in summer you can forget the bad times but in winter I have more bad days than good ones.....I would love a way out but sometimes it seems there is not one that does not mean selling my friends and babies so I put up with it.
It is 9.30pm now and we are off to check the horses, put up extra nets for liveries and skip out.....not tucked up nice and warm like everyone else who went gone home long ago!!
I am passionate about horses but even so it is a hard way of life at times and I often want to give up. Yes I know it is all my fault but sometimes you end up in a place that you did not mean to and yes I am trying to change things for the better but it is not easy. I'm not sure how Peter puts up with me!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. I am also old and tired!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You really do sound fed up! Its a hard job and winter doesn't help. Not long now until spring. I agree, I wouldn't be able to keep my own horses if I didn't have the livery. Also, it's cheaper and slightly better than going to the gym!
 
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