Livery yard

[Nbuuifx]

My wife loves horses, she has 3 and would love horses to be her job.

We've seen a stable yard for sale, and I'm trying to work or if it is viable or not.

The purchase price is just shy of 500k, and it is about 18.5acres. It is split into 18 paddocks and has stabling for 18 horses. It has a floodlit ménage and it has a walker.

I'm finding it difficult to estimate the running costs.

One of the hardest is finding the rateable value. When I search on the postcode it doesn't find one so I presume it has never been run properly as a business. I believe it is a farm that is selling this off whilst retaining their farm and a number paddocks in front.

Is there any way to estimate what the rateable value would be? Or does anyone know what the rateable value is of a similar sized property?

Is there anyone currently in this position who might be able to offer any further advice?
Thanks

 

[EventingMum]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rating-...section-995-riding-schools-and-livery-stables
Section 2 Valuation approach gives some guidance.

https://www.nlaf.uk/Library/content...tchmnt=False&uSesDM=False&rIdx=MTA5Mw==&rCFU=

It's worth contacting the BHS too as they have been campaigning for a reduction in rates, remember small business rates relief will probably apply.

 

[teapot]

Don't do it! Short list of things to consider re livery yards:

- Bedding costs
- Hay costs
- Water costs - can be huge if not managed
- Electric costs - again needs managing
- Security costs of land/gates/fencing
- Maintenance of buildings (you'll be replacing things weekly)
- Maintenance of grazing and fencing (poo picking is a 365 days a year job, let alone topping/spraying etc)
- Maintenance of arena and horse walker (harrows are five figures to buy, running costs of ATV/quad to harrow with)
- Staff costs (your wife will end up hating doing 18 horses twice a day!) if not on DIY.
- Insurance
- Muck disposal (harder and more expensive than you think)
- Spare boxes for emergencies/bio security reasons
- Parking for 20 cars (poss lorry, trailers too)
- Practical space available for visiting professionals
- Tack room and security
- Facilities for humans
- Some way of managing arena bookings to stop liveries killing each other
- Endless supplies of sanity and patience to deal with the dramas and hassles involved
- Copious amounts of alcohol to deal with the above
- Business rates


18 acres is not much at all. I wouldn't be offering livery for 18 horses that's for sure. It is very very very hard to break even, let alone make a profit as a livery yard.

 

[July dreamer]

I ran a livery yard for over 20 years. I now wonder how I stuck it so long but I told myself I was living the dream. In reality, I was working all hours and I really only did DIY livery, just sheer maintenance (I had 30 acres, 11 boxes and 1 or 2 horses of my own) and trying to get a bit of life for myself. I would be out on the tractor while watching everyone else ride their horses, I missed family occasions because I had too much to do. And I didn't make a living. Trying to employ someone so you can offer services would be a nightmare, the liveries were never happy.
I've now downsized, my horses and a couple of friends with theirs, we help each other out and I have time for other things.
I wouldn't recommend it!!

 

[Nbuuifx]

Thanks for the replies,

My other option which was the original option was to find a rural property with a good few acres to be our house, and then create a small stable area for people to rent fully DIY.

What are your thoughts on this?

The problem with this has been finding the right property, in the right place at the right price.

 

[AmyMay]

Thanks for the replies,

My other option which was the original option was to find a rural property with a good few acres to be our house, and then create a small stable area for people to rent fully DIY.

What are your thoughts on this?

The problem with this has been finding the right property, in the right place at the right price.

Just buy the house and keep your own horses…

 

[teapot]

Thanks for the replies,

My other option which was the original option was to find a rural property with a good few acres to be our house, and then create a small stable area for people to rent fully DIY.

What are your thoughts on this?

The problem with this has been finding the right property, in the right place at the right price.

Even on DIY, you'd still have to consider a lot of what I mentioned

 

[Nbuuifx]

Just buy the house and keep your own horses…

My wife has her heart set on not doing her job for the rest of her life, so would love to have a small business where she can earn a bit of money whilst doing something she really enjoys.

 

[teapot]

My wife has her heart set on not doing her job for the rest of her life, so would love to have a small business where she can earn a bit of money whilst doing something she really enjoys.

There's a huge difference between hobby and job when it comes to horses though. The reality of running any form of livery yard is nowhere near what 99% of hobby riders think it is I'm afraid, especially when it comes to earning money.

I work in the industry, please trust me on this.

 

[Nbuuifx]

There's a huge difference between hobby and job when it comes to horses though. The reality of running any form of livery yard is nowhere near what 99% of hobby riders think it is I'm afraid, especially when it comes to earning money.

I work in the industry, please trust me on this.

I appreciate the honest feedback.

Thank you.

We do have a couple of other ideas which may work but would still require some land.

 

[Peglo]

B+B with an option for horse and rider?

 

[chocolategirl]

Don't do it! Short list of things to consider re livery yards:

- Bedding costs
- Hay costs
- Water costs - can be huge if not managed
- Electric costs - again needs managing
- Security costs of land/gates/fencing
- Maintenance of buildings (you'll be replacing things weekly)
- Maintenance of grazing and fencing (poo picking is a 365 days a year job, let alone topping/spraying etc)
- Maintenance of arena and horse walker (harrows are five figures to buy, running costs of ATV/quad to harrow with)
- Staff costs (your wife will end up hating doing 18 horses twice a day!) if not on DIY.
- Insurance
- Muck disposal (harder and more expensive than you think)
- Spare boxes for emergencies/bio security reasons
- Parking for 20 cars (poss lorry, trailers too)
- Practical space available for visiting professionals
- Tack room and security
- Facilities for humans
- Some way of managing arena bookings to stop liveries killing each other
- Endless supplies of sanity and patience to deal with the dramas and hassles involved
- Copious amounts of alcohol to deal with the above
- Business rates


18 acres is not much at all. I wouldn't be offering livery for 18 horses that's for sure. It is very very very hard to break even, let alone make a profit as a livery yard.

Second this! I’m 26 years in, and tbh, I really don’t know how I’m not in prison! Horses great, owners, not so much ? I can’t wait to wind mine down, I’m in the process now. I’m done with funding other people’s hobby and putting up with their crapola? it’s like a severe form of masochism ?

 

[Nbuuifx]

B+B with an option for horse and rider?

One potential or perhaps a small caravan / camping site which again could cater for those with horses if they so wished. An ideal could be a mixture of the two. B&B and campsite along with our own horses behind and a spare stable or two for b&b for horses! Either that or ours would get kicked out for the night ?

It all boils down to finding the right property in the right place with excellent outriding.

 

[Sossigpoker]

To have any chance of making money you'd need a very small mortgage, ideally none , and you'd need to provide livery services. There is no money in DIY and they tend to trash the fields if lepton their own (not everyone of course).
I'd keep a max of 9 horses on 18 acres - and if the land is wet or clay based , you will need a lot for the winter so the number of horses would be even less.

Doing livery you'd either have to pay for staff or work 7 days a week - and it's hard work. Including Christmas, birthdays etc.

if you have money to spare and don't need to worry if you don't make any on the livery - and are prepared to work very hard and long hours- then go for it.
otherwise I really wouldn't recommend it.

 

[July dreamer]

I can understand why it is a dream to work with horses, but dealing with liveries can be far from fun. Especially if it is also your home, you are on duty 24 hours a day, there is no escape! It depends very much on the people.
Airbnb, for humans with or without horses might work, if you can find the right property. What is it exactly your wife enjoys doing with horses? Because running a livery yard, in my experience, mainly involves being moaned at because the school hasn't been harrowed, so-and-so is always in the school, there is too much/little grass, the fields are too far away, etc, etc. And most time is spent maintaining the school/fields, mending fences, trying to squash the muck heap down and begging people to throw the muck back when emptying their barrows, sweeping up after liveries as they lead the horses out and drag shavings all over the yard, sweeping up the hay barn/feed room, trying to persuade people to lock and set the tack room alarm, to turn off lights and taps, etc..
I think I got a little sour running a livery yard.....